Swhowalter

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I have to agree that Torre's last few years pretty much sucked & come to think of it, so has Girardi's. You see, I can be fair.



...I'll ask again...was Girardi given ANYTHING to work with that can compare to a young Mo, Jeter, Posada, and Petttitte?
 
...yes, the core 4 would all have been total failures without Torre...give me a fucking break.

...yes, Girardi has ruined countless careers of young players already...rolls eyes. Has he been given ANYTHING to work with that can compare to Mo, Jeter, Posada, and Pettitte?...didn't think so. And do you have any idea where the term "clueless Joe" came from?

Mo's cutter didn't become a staple until '98. Catcher and SS had been transient positions for a long time. Torre took pressure off these kids and gave them the opportunity to develop. That wasn't happening under Buck's my way or the highway micromanagement regime.

No one is saying Torre or Girardi combined is the baseball intellect of Schowalter...but they were far superior at management skills. The latter is critically important. I think Buck's time as a TV analyst gave him some excellent perspective that he obviously is applying now.
 
..."no matter how successful"?...really?...that makes absolutely no sense....and exactly how long is this supposed "shelf life" regardless of how successful they are?

...Torre's last 4 years were not "successful". You don't think the PS failures of '01 and '04 had anything to do with him being let go?


Sure it makes sense. Simply put nobody lasts forever. I wouldn't say 2001. If Mo makes the save it's four titles in a row. 2004 followed by allowing that bug shit to take place in Cleveland was it.
 
...I'll ask again...was Girardi given ANYTHING to work with that can compare to a young Mo, Jeter, Posada, and Petttitte?


Hey Jeter's had a couple of good years under Girardi & Mo had some of his best years under Girardi. And also Girardi has had a PRIME Robinson Cano & CC Sabathia. Just saying. But enough of this I'm trying to concentrate on this marbles tornament.
 
...^^^that's not what you said...you said "regardless of how successful" they are. And the reason he was let go was because of his failures, not his successes.

...why wasn't Torre ever "successful" as a coach before he came to NY?
 
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Hey Jeter's had a couple of good years under Girardi & Mo had some of his best years under Girardi. And also Girardi has had a PRIME Robinson Cano & CC Sabathia. Just saying. But enough of this I'm trying to concentrate on this marbles tornament.

...that's what I thought...no comparison.
 
...^^^that's not what you said...you said "regardless of how successful" they are. And the reason he was let go was because of his failures, not his successes.

...why wasn't Torre ever "successful" as a coach before he came to NY?

What I actually said was any manager and not just specifically Joe Torre.
 
...and Torre is not included among "any manager"? Yes or No?...and is there a specific # of years of this supposed "shelf life"?

...and again, "why wasn't Torre ever "successful" as a coach before he came to NY?"
 
...and Torre is not included among "any manager"? Yes or No?...and is there a specific # of years of this supposed "shelf life"?

...and again, "why wasn't Torre ever "successful" as a coach before he came to NY?"


They all have an expiration date. It's just a matter of when. Joe Torre, Al Arbor, Tom Landry, Job Gibbs....everybody.
 
Look the bottom line comes down to this, if you're given good players ownership expects you to win, McCarthy, Stengel, & Torre are perfect examples. But you also have to be lucky enough to have those good players work for you & excel for you. Not every manager is lucky enough to succeed even when given the pieces. Sometimes the chemistry is just not there.
 
Look the bottom line comes down to this, if you're given good players ownership expects you to win, McCarthy, Stengel, & Torre are perfect examples. But you also have to be lucky enough to have those good players work for you & excel for you. Not every manager is lucky enough to succeed even when given the pieces. Sometimes the chemistry is just not there.

Exactly.
 
They all have an expiration date. It's just a matter of when. Joe Torre, Al Arbor, Tom Landry, Job Gibbs....everybody.

^^^ lol...how many coaches are let go after very recent "successes"?

...3rd time;..."why wasn't Torre ever "successful" as a coach before he came to NY?"
 
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.... "But you also have to be lucky enough to have those good players work for you & excel for you". .


...well, it's about f'n time.

...and Girardi was never given the teams for multiple years like McCarthy, Stengel, and Torre were given.
 
^^^ lol...how many coaches are let go after very recent "successes"?

...3rd time;..."why wasn't Torre ever "successful" as a coach before he came to NY?"


Hell I thought I made that fairly obvious in post #41
 
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...bless your heart.

...now please go back and read what has been said and put things in their proper context.





...here, I'll help you out. The question was why Torre was never successful before he came to NY.
 
...bless your heart.

...now please go back and read what has been said and put things in their proper context.





...here, I'll help you out. The question was why Torre was never successful before he came to NY.


I don't know who this question is for but.....if I may, I'll take a wild guess & say because he never had the players.
 

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