Syria

Welcome to our community

Be a part of something great, join today!

At most, I think no fly zones are what anyone should do. If they're delivering the gas by aircraft, shoot it down.

The problem with a no-fly zone is that someone has to enforce it. Once you start shooting down aircraft, your involved in their war. No thanks. I'd rather let them work it out.

Go Blazers
 
What example of brutal and repressive pre 2007 arab spring do you have?

I agree we should stay out.

I don't follow? The region has lived under brutal, authoritarian rule for centuries. Whether it was the Caliphates, the Ottoman suzerainty, British and French colonial rule, or Ba'athist strong-men like Assad and Hussein. Nihil sub sole novum.
 
I don't follow? The region has lived under brutal, authoritarian rule for centuries. Whether it was the Caliphates, the Ottoman suzerainty, British and French colonial rule, or Ba'athist strong-men like Assad and Hussein. Nihil sub sole novum.

You didn't answer the question.

Did Assad routinely arrest people in the dead of night and torture them like Saddam did? What daily brutality did he impose on his people?
 
You didn't answer the question.

Did Assad routinely arrest people in the dead of night and torture them like Saddam did? What daily brutality did he impose on his people?

Syrian minority groups (Christians, Shia, etc.) have definitely suffered under both Assads. I think the son maybe started off with better intentions than his father - even intimating democratic reforms in the past - but by many accounts Syria has operated under the same police-state tactics that marked the rein of the elder; since a "state of emergency was declared" in 1963. I suppose I don't have any off-the-cuff anecdotes, but I don't think it's any big secret either that the human rights situation in that country has been pretty poor for fifty+ years (maybe hundreds of years?).
 
For what it's worth I have serious doubts about the situation improving even a little bit if Assad's regime falls to the insurrectionists and revolutionaries. It'll be just another Islamic state employing brutality and strong-arm tactics under the banner of Sharia law.
 
Syrian minority groups (Christians, Shia, etc.) have definitely suffered under both Assads. I think the son maybe started off with better intentions than his father - even intimating democratic reforms in the past - but by many accounts Syria has operated under the same police-state tactics that marked the rein of the elder; since a "state of emergency was declared" in 1963. I suppose I don't have any off-the-cuff anecdotes, but I don't think it's any big secret either that the human rights situation in that country has been pretty poor for fifty+ years (maybe hundreds of years?).

Maybe true, but I never see or hear about it in the news.

From what I've read, there have been several coups d'etat since 1963.
 
Maybe true, but I never see or hear about it in the news.

I'm not saying it's a "special" sort of brutality or repression as far as dictatorships go, but I'm guessing people don't hear much about it because Syrians live in such a heavily monitored police-state and aren't allowed to leave the country without an exit visa.

From what I've read, there have been several coups d'etat since 1963.

There have been a few attempts, but they've all been quickly and/or violently put down. This is probably the most "famous" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hama_massacre
 
Can't we just talk Mexico into selling Baja California to the Israelis? That way people will sneak in to clean hotel rooms and mow lawns rather than blow up children...
 
I'm not saying it's a "special" sort of brutality or repression as far as dictatorships go, but I'm guessing people don't hear much about it because Syrians live in such a heavily monitored police-state and aren't allowed to leave the country without an exit visa.



There have been a few attempts, but they've all been quickly and/or violently put down. This is probably the most "famous" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hama_massacre

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-22870776
 
Sorry, Nik, I'm just trying to make some sense of this.

The Sunni govt. is suppressing Shia, like in Iraq. So the Shia fight on the government side and the government fires rockets into Sunni towns.

If the Shia were so oppressed, wouldn't they be on the rebellion side?
 
Sorry, Nik, I'm just trying to make some sense of this.

The Sunni govt. is suppressing Shia, like in Iraq. So the Shia fight on the government side and the government fires rockets into Sunni towns.

If the Shia were so oppressed, wouldn't they be on the rebellion side?

The only way to really find out is to invade them.
 
The only way to really find out is to invade them.

Got to elect Pelosi speaker first!

pelosi-assad.jpg
 
Obama's coalition of the willing seems to be France and Pelosi.

Can we just send in a bunch of community organizers to fix everything?
 
Could Saudi Arabia be behind the chemical weapons attack?
As we showed mere days ago, it appears the truth of who the real puppet-master in the Middle-East is becoming plainer to see. The incredibly frank discussion between Saudi's spy-chief Prince Bandar and Russia's Putin exposed a much deeper plot is afoot and the following details from the actual people on the ground in the chemically-attacked region of Syria suggest Obama is playing right into the Saudi's plan. While Obama is 'certain' that the chemical attacks took place on al-Assad's orders, as MPN reports, "from numerous interviews with doctors, Ghouta residents, rebel fighters and their families, a different picture emerges. Many believe that certain rebels received chemical weapons via the Saudi intelligence chief, Prince Bandar bin Sultan, and were responsible for carrying out the dealing gas attack."
The narrative for public consumption is well-known and quite clear - it was all as-Assad's fault. And yet...


http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-...out-who-really-behind-syrian-chemical-attacks
 
I live in Israel, we and Syrians are neighbors, I've never been to Syria.
You don't think I support democracy in Syria? I think that's definitely Israel's interest but mostly Syrian interest, I believe in democracy and share most of the rebels' democratic aspirations but there is more to this. One thing is Assad׳s personal situation. He probably made a mistake standing against his people's rights, some would even say he has sinned. IMO deciding to fight militarily his People's call for democracy proves he was never deserving of being a king. I do believe, however, that until that point he was at least trying to give Syrian people as good a life as possible.
Right now he has power to fight and no legitimacy, if he feels he has nothing to lose I'm worried cities in Israel could be targeted. You may think "come on, take one for the team" but I wouldn't. The war in Syria is their own, the resolution of this situation can only happen when Syrians reach it. I'm not saying the world should be oblivious to what's happening but Syrians should decide their future, not have it decided for them. Eveb if I also hope for democracy to emerge it wouldn't be worth much if won by another country's missiles. Obama wants to prevent incidents like the chemical assault to reoccur, he wants to live up to his word but I think what he wants most is for things to regain relative normalcy.
There is a book that in English is called 100 years of solitude, in which one of the characters, Aaurliano Buandia, is asked if he'll vote for the liberals or for the conservatives in the upcoming elections. At first he sayes he doesn't really care until he somehow witnesses the conservatives forging the elections and goes on to lead a civil war for most of his life. I believe in democracy, I think it's a basic human right, I even think it's worth fighting for but it's the Syrians' battle, no one can fight it for them.
 
I live in Israel, we and Syrians are neighbors, I've never been to Syria.
You don't think I support democracy in Syria? I think that's definitely Israel's interest but mostly Syrian interest, I believe in democracy and share most of the rebels' democratic aspirations but there is more to this. One thing is Assad׳s personal situation. He probably made a mistake standing against his people's rights, some would even say he has sinned. IMO deciding to fight militarily his People's call for democracy proves he was never deserving of being a king. I do believe, however, that until that point he was at least trying to give Syrian people as good a life as possible.
Right now he has power to fight and no legitimacy, if he feels he has nothing to lose I'm worried cities in Israel could be targeted. You may think "come on, take one for the team" but I wouldn't. The war in Syria is their own, the resolution of this situation can only happen when Syrians reach it. I'm not saying the world should be oblivious to what's happening but Syrians should decide their future, not have it decided for them. Eveb if I also hope for democracy to emerge it wouldn't be worth much if won by another country's missiles. Obama wants to prevent incidents like the chemical assault to reoccur, he wants to live up to his word but I think what he wants most is for things to regain relative normalcy.
There is a book that in English is called 100 years of solitude, in which one of the characters, Aaurliano Buandia, is asked if he'll vote for the liberals or for the conservatives in the upcoming elections. At first he sayes he doesn't really care until he somehow witnesses the conservatives forging the elections and goes on to lead a civil war for most of his life. I believe in democracy, I think it's a basic human right, I even think it's worth fighting for but it's the Syrians' battle, no one can fight it for them.

You have every reason to worry. Israel is the Middle East's favorite punching bag. If Assad wants to curry favor with other Middle East leaders, he can attack Israel. What worries me more is that the High Holy Days are coming up shortly. The Syrians may view either Rosh Hashanah or Yom Kippur as the ideal time to strike.

You live in a neighborhood of crazy people where you're the only sane one.
 
Israel is not a good target if you have something to lose, our Air Force, technology enables us to strike back fiercefully.
My point is not that I don't want missiles on Tel Aviv, that's the subtext, my point is that this conflict should be resolved by the world in a diplomatic manner, it will not be resolved by the region being dragged to war, even if Obama does know better than them...
I don't think they are crazy, what they're going through is a conflict between monarchy and democracy that isn't simple, it isn't simple because monarchy is what they've had for many years.
When the people in Suria started calling for change Assad answered by force which IMO was his mistake. He then went on to appear before Parliament and was only applauded, that kind of regime is not good for civilians, can't be good. The rebels' cause should prevail because it's progress, because it's a better political system but it's a difficult change that's causing a painful war.
It also should be their own cause, it's not for other countries to decide, other countries can only make it worse. It's like Aurliano Buandia's fight, after years of fighting he'll say he did it mostly for pride.
 
Notice that the gas attack was timed for when Congress was on summer vacation, so that Obama would act unilaterally. In Britain they called Parliament into special session, but not here.

I just came on the board to show this article

http://www.examiner.com/article/bre...attack-result-of-mishandling-chemical-weapons

but I see that Masbee already linked to a similar one.

 
We goin' to war?
 
Noble peace prize winning war monger Barack hussein Obama

hoop fam
 
Good for the president. He will seek congressional approval.

Everyone should write/call their congressmen and tell them how you feel about military action in Syria.

Go Blazers
 
The only thing the President should say publicly is "I'll tell you what I'm gonna do right after I've already done it. Next question?"
 
He wants an out. If congress says no, he can say he tried and was obstructed.
 
Wow. Just Wow.

One of the worst Presidents ever. As I declared before the election, and his 2nd term is a fucking disaster. He hasn't done anything right or accomplished jack squat. And many of his misdeeds and fuck-ups from the 1st term that were buried and hidden have come out.

First he ignores Syria and the civil war and the slaughter of innocents.

Then he states that 10's of thousands of dying isn't worth getting dragged into war over, BUUUUUUT if the "red line" of chemical weapons is used, well, that would change everything.

How, I don't know, but stay with me here, that is what the Pres. said.

Then, it is pretty clear chemical weapons were used starting 6 months ago.

Crickets. Oh well, let's forget the red line.

After the coup in Egypt, when Obama and the W.H. talked, nobody listened. Worse, many area leaders openly mocked Obama and the Administration. Putin is having fun. Even worse still, the man on the street now HATE Obama (and Clinton). Credibility and power in the region in tatters. (Jimmy Carter say Hi!)

Then, a major chemical attack happens in Syria with hundreds gruesomely killed - including many small children.

Now, Obama jumps to attention. Starts collecting intelligence and to form a "coalition" of powers to jump into the quagmire and do something big in Syria. Obama claims there is proof that Assad did it, but the "proof" must not be that convincing as the number of coalition partners dwindles to near zero. Putin again mocks Obama.

Obama comes out and says he will go it alone. He doesn't need the world's approval. He doesn't need Congress approval. He will do what is "right".

Ok. Fine. Whatever. We get it. You need to prove you are not the pussy you have been acting like. You need to re-establish some bonifides in the Middle East as you have virtually none right now. You need to stand by your stupid "red-line" statement and act more like Bush (yes, it is true) and less like Jimmy Carter. You need to show some conviction and backbone.......

And, now we go back to spineless. He will fob it off to Congress, stall and delay, and unless they can find some real proof that Assad did this, he can go back to the golf course.

Does he have a guiding policy? A plan? Or, is this just all off-the-cuff? Certainly seems like he is "leading from behind" as he has done for much of his Presidency.
 
Wow. Just Wow.

One of the worst Presidents ever. As I declared before the election, and his 2nd term is a fucking disaster. He hasn't done anything right or accomplished jack squat. And many of his misdeeds and fuck-ups from the 1st term that were buried and hidden have come out.

First he ignores Syria and the civil war and the slaughter of innocents.

Then he states that 10's of thousands of dying isn't worth getting dragged into war over, BUUUUUUT if the "red line" of chemical weapons is used, well, that would change everything.

How, I don't know, but stay with me here, that is what the Pres. said.

Then, it is pretty clear chemical weapons were used starting 6 months ago.

Crickets. Oh well, let's forget the red line.

After the coup in Egypt, when Obama and the W.H. talked, nobody listened. Worse, many area leaders openly mocked Obama and the Administration. Putin is having fun. Even worse still, the man on the street now HATE Obama (and Clinton). Credibility and power in the region in tatters. (Jimmy Carter say Hi!)

Then, a major chemical attack happens in Syria with hundreds gruesomely killed - including many small children.

Now, Obama jumps to attention. Starts collecting intelligence and to form a "coalition" of powers to jump into the quagmire and do something big in Syria. Obama claims there is proof that Assad did it, but the "proof" must not be that convincing as the number of coalition partners dwindles to near zero. Putin again mocks Obama.

Obama comes out and says he will go it alone. He doesn't need the world's approval. He doesn't need Congress approval. He will do what is "right".

Ok. Fine. Whatever. We get it. You need to prove you are not the pussy you have been acting like. You need to re-establish some bonifides in the Middle East as you have virtually none right now. You need to stand by your stupid "red-line" statement and act more like Bush (yes, it is true) and less like Jimmy Carter. You need to show some conviction and backbone.......

And, now we go back to spineless. He will fob it off to Congress, stall and delay, and unless they can find some real proof that Assad did this, he can go back to the golf course.

Does he have a guiding policy? A plan? Or, is this just all off-the-cuff? Certainly seems like he is "leading from behind" as he has done for much of his Presidency.

I can't believe how racist you are.
 
First of all, now he needs Congressional approval to do anything?

Secondly, he already has drawn his "red line", and not putting it on Congress is laughable. A joke of a leader, and the worst president of my lifetime. Obama Hits Golf Course After Announcing National Emergency

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/pres...ongress-taking-action-syria/story?id=20127274

President Obama announced today that the US should pursue military intervention against the regime of Syrian President Bashar al-Assad for use of chemical weapons in that country's civil war, but only after his administration seeks approval from Congress.

The president hopes Congress will debate and vote on a US strike when they return from their summer recess, scheduled to end Sept. 9.

"While I believe I have the authority to carry out this military action without specific congressional authorization, I know the country will be stronger if we take this course, and our actions will be even more effective," Obama said from the White House's Rose Garden. "We should have this debate.

"This attack is an assault on human dignity," the president added. "It also presents a serious danger to our national security. It risks making a mockery of the global prohibition on the use of chemical weapons. It could lead to escalating use of chemical weapons or their proliferation to terrorist groups who'd do our people harm. In a world with many dangers this menace must be confronted."

Obama then left with Vice President Biden for a golf game.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top