Tank 2022

[TBpup]

I think you just answered your own question while in fact supporting mine.

Again, there are ways to try to escape purgatory other than completely annihilating yourself. More positive ways.

Sure....there are lots of ways. I'm not contending that is any one and only solution. Just that the way it was going for the last half decade was a waste of time. Would have loved if they'd got more out of Powell and RoCo, but until this deadline and then the Draft, it's incomplete. Not off to a good start, but incomplete.

 

[PCmor7]

Sure....there are lots of ways. I'm not contending that is any one and only solution. Just that the way it was going for the last half decade was a waste of time. Would have loved if they'd got more out of Powell and RoCo, but until this deadline and then the Draft, it's incomplete. Not off to a good start, but incomplete.

In that sense of things, everything's incomplete until the universe ends.

It doesn't change the fact that we have a worse team today with even fewer assets to try to improve in the future than we did last week.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

Instead, we're tanking in a weak draft year and giving away our assets for pennies on the dollar. And giving them to teams we're going to have to compete with, no less.

Cronin's ineffectualness at executing the tank doesn't change the perspective that it's the right thing to do given the situation.

 

[PCmor7]

Cronin's ineffectualness at executing the tank doesn't change the perspective that it's the right thing to do given the situation.

I think you'd admit, though, that there are ways to mess up your tank job other than not being bad enough. Being bad enough but not having the assets to get yourself out of the cellar is probably the absolute worse thing that can happen.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

I think you'd admit, though, that there are ways to mess up your tank job other than not being bad enough. Being bad enough but not having the assets to get yourself out of the cellar is probably the absolute worse thing that can happen.

Fortunately, Cronin's only made one crappy move so far. We still have assets, and still have the possibility of those assets being used wisely. Bledsoe could be dealt for a currently injured future contributor. CJ could be converted into a prospect and draft picks. The lottery pick could be offered up in the off season for a quality forward. The are all plenty of possibilities, the most significant of which is Dame returning healthy.

Yes, there are definitely plenty of ways this tank can be driven into a ditch, but until/unless that happens, I'm holding to the opinion that it's the best option in the moment.

 

[TBpup]

In that sense of things, everything's incomplete until the universe ends.

It doesn't change the fact that we have a worse team today with even fewer assets to try to improve in the future than we did last week.

Don't think anyone is disputing that point, are they?

 

[oldmangrouch]

Yeah, no kidding.

Why is losing with vets and having no hope for the future better than losing with young players?

I'm not being sarcastic here. It is an honest question.

 

[oldmangrouch]

BTW, you can't really tank starting in Feb. We are hopelessly behind the teams that accepted this was going to be a bad year back at the beginning. Just another cost of dithering around over Olshey. He put the team on the wrong path and was too arrogant to admit his mistake. Now the mistake is unfixable.

 

[BBert]

In a sense, the trade also netted the Blazers a guaranteed lottery pick, and possibly a high one.

The best play at this point is to build for the future by playing and developing the young guys.

Who said anything about a tank?

 

[Wizard Mentor]

I don't really understand the enthusiasm to become the current Thunder or Rockets.

We currently are terrible, horrible, horrific. Since that is the case, we mine as well get a decent draft pick.

 

[perkinsfor3]

Sucks to tabnk this year too, since I'm not a fan of the next draft at all (Holmgren, Smith and Banchero all have some red flags I dont like). Watch us pick Holmgren #1, see him blow his knee out and watch Ivey develop into a superstar.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Sucks to tabnk this year too, since I'm not a fan of the next draft at all (Holmgren, Smith and Banchero all have some red flags I dont like). Watch us pick Holmgren #1, see him blow his knee out and watch Ivey develop into a superstar.

We are fated to take Holmgren just because he's Bill Walton Mk. 2

 

[SharpesTriumph]

There's maybe one rookie in this class that can immediately contribute. Maybe.

If people think we're bad now, this forum's going to be a real joy to read for the next few years if what they want comes to fruition, because I don't think rebuilding it is going to be nearly as easy as they think. There were better ways than just trying to be really bad.

We are rebuilding, we have no way to build a contender around Dame. Trading away two starters for 3 scrubs earning 11 million next year has closed any possible contending door.

The team and some fans don't fully know that yet, but its done.

Others of us are now fully on board with the tank because its the best chance the team has to add more talent.

 

[Hoopguru]

Why is losing with vets and having no hope for the future better than losing with young players?

I'm not being sarcastic here. It is an honest question.

Hey OMG good to hear from ya.
Yeah, for me going totally young by trading Dame for picks, starting over hoping to develop youngsters like Houston & Thunder just seems like a long process with a number of years to even make the playoffs.
If it doesn't work out to try and Build around Dame for the next year or two, Im not opposed to whatever direction whoever the gm/owner is.

 

[Orion Bailey]

Is there actually a player in this draft that would have an instant impact?

Paulo Banchero would be our starting four out of the gate i think.

 

[Hoopguru]

Hey OMG good to hear from ya.
Yeah, for me going totally young by trading Dame for picks, starting over hoping to develop youngsters like Houston & Thunder just seems like a long process with a number of years to even make the playoffs.
If it doesn't work out to try and Build around Dame for the next year or two, Im not opposed to whatever direction whoever the gm/owner is.

For me just I dont want to give up on Dame now since he's committed to the city, fans and franchise. If he's been playing hurt maybe he'll be like new next season. Its not like he's 35/36 years old he's still got game.

 

[SlyPokerCat]

For me just I dont want to give up on Dame now since he's committed to the city, fans and franchise. If he's been playing hurt maybe he'll be like new next season. Its not like he's 35/36 years old he's still got game.

Then his value in a trade substantially diminishes and the reboot takes even longer

 

[PCmor7]

We are rebuilding, we have no way to build a contender around Dame. Trading away two starters for 3 scrubs earning 11 million next year has closed any possible contending door.

The team and some fans don't fully know that yet, but its done.

Others of us are now fully on board with the tank because its the best chance the team has to add more talent.

We absolutely still had avenues to try to build around Dame if we wanted OR to have Dame around as part of the rebuilding process.

And people just taking for granted that tanking is the best chance to add more talent is either wishful thinking or blindness or just being stuck in conventionality. I've addressed the reasons above, and I've also given examples above that contradict your contention.

 

[PCmor7]

We currently are terrible, horrible, horrific. Since that is the case, we mine as well get a decent draft pick.

Except we weren't terrible, horrible and horrific a week ago. We had two more players who were contributing and had the potential of being traded for pieces that could have helped us in the future when we had a healthy Dame back.

The "decent draft pick" is short-sighted. What do you think the odds are of you finding something of major value in your septic system? Just because it's the difference between the 6th pick in the draft and the 10th pick in the draft doesn't mean you're going to get a Damian Lillard instead of a Meyers Leonard. It depends on the quality of said draft and also your scouting department's ability to identify someone who's slipped to your pick.

 

[PCmor7]

Don't think anyone is disputing that point, are they?

Truthfully, I'm starting to wonder. I thought it was pretty clear, but a number of posters seem to be trying to understate it, which is, to a degree, disputing it.

 

[Wizard Mentor]

Except we weren't terrible, horrible and horrific a week ago. We had two more players who were contributing and had the potential of being traded for pieces that could have helped us in the future when we had a healthy Dame back.

The "decent draft pick" is short-sighted. What do you think the odds are of you finding something of major value in your septic system? Just because it's the difference between the 6th pick in the draft and the 10th pick in the draft doesn't mean you're going to get a Damian Lillard instead of a Meyers Leonard. It depends on the quality of said draft and also your scouting department's ability to identify someone who's slipped to your pick.

It's not short-sighted, it and hoping for further development for Ant is all we got.

It's not obvious that you hated the trade more than me - if you want to look at my last 50 posts, I have plenty of "rant-cred", lol.

It's also not obvious that we're keeping the pick instead of trading it. Either way, a better pick is better.

 

[UKRAINEFAN]

There's maybe one rookie in this class that can immediately contribute. Maybe.

If people think we're bad now, this forum's going to be a real joy to read for the next few years if what they want comes to fruition, because I don't think rebuilding it is going to be nearly as easy as they think. There were better ways than just trying to be really bad.

We're just trying to be bad for one year, while Lillard is injured, I haven't seen any tankers talking about rebuild.

 

[Chris Craig]

I understand the reasoning on that, and, for fans, I understand it more. For a front office, though, it seems kind of knee jerk. Dame's not going to play much if at all this year, but he's not dead, either. He'll be back next year and I think it's fair to believe he'll still be a pretty productive player. Build for his return instead of panicking and giving away assets for a minor monetary gain that makes it harder to compete when he does return.

Unless, of course, the plan is to trade Dame or to make him see the writing on the wall and request a trade.

I hear you. It's a little late now

 

[Chris Craig]

It's not short-sighted, it and hoping for further development for Ant is all we got.

It's not obvious that you hated the trade more than me - if you want to look at my last 50 posts, I have plenty of "rant-cred", lol.

It's also not obvious that we're keeping the pick instead of trading it. Either way, a better pick is better.

The Blazers are putting all their eggs in one basket. Not a winning strategy. They are putting all their faith in Simons to become a star pair with Lillard, or if Lillard decides he wants out, to be the heir apparent.

 

[UKRAINEFAN]

I understand the reasoning on that, and, for fans, I understand it more. For a front office, though, it seems kind of knee jerk. Dame's not going to play much if at all this year, but he's not dead, either. He'll be back next year and I think it's fair to believe he'll still be a pretty productive player. Build for his return instead of panicking and giving away assets for a minor monetary gain that makes it harder to compete when he does return.

Unless, of course, the plan is to trade Dame or to make him see the writing on the wall and request a trade.

Again, I don't think any tankers have been advocating giving away assets; all of us are enraged about the latest trade. We are advocating trading guys who we would lose anyway (Roco) or don't really fit (CJ, Powell?) and then use these assets to help in a trade for guys who can balance the roster and who have more fight in them. At least that's what I want. Tanking to get a better draft pick or at least to retain our pick this year gives us another tradable asset, unless we luck out and get a draft pick that can be productive right away.

 

[Hoopguru]

Then his value in a trade substantially diminishes and the reboot takes even longer

Or he becomes even more lethal and his value remains high. More to come?

 

[UKRAINEFAN]

BTW, you can't really tank starting in Feb. We are hopelessly behind the teams that accepted this was going to be a bad year back at the beginning. Just another cost of dithering around over Olshey. He put the team on the wrong path and was too arrogant to admit his mistake. Now the mistake is unfixable.

If Cronin keeps making trades like the first one, it's not too late!

 

[Chris Craig]

Paulo Banchero would be our starting four out of the gate i think.

He would be my pick. I wouldn't mind Jabari Smith either. I don't want Holmgren. Dude will bust...his legs or knees....he's a toothpick clone of Zach Collins.

 

[PCmor7]

Again, I don't think any tankers have been advocating giving away assets; all of us are enraged about the latest trade. We are advocating trading guys who we would lose anyway (Roco) or don't really fit (CJ, Powell?) and then use these assets to help in a trade for guys who can balance the roster and who have more fight in them. At least that's what I want. Tanking to get a better draft pick or at least to retain our pick this year gives us another tradable asset, unless we luck out and get a draft pick that can be productive right away.

You and I are in agreement until about halfway through your post.

Most of us seem to be in agreement that the trade didn't bring back the assets we were expecting. We didn't use these assets in the way you or I or most of the forum seems to think was prudent.

We weren't in a position to lose our first-round draft choice, though. We're talking about giving away quality assets for nothing in the hopes that we either can a) move from the 10th pick to the 6th pick and/or b) get lucky with the lottery and get the No. 1 overall pick in a draft where there is one guy who really seems to have a decent chance to be a difference-maker in the NBA.

That doesn't seem like a good way to tank. That seems like a good way to completely scuttle your team, IMO.

 

[SharpesTriumph]

Then his value in a trade substantially diminishes and the reboot takes even longer

I'm fine in theory with giving a shot to build around Dame and see if we can contend. Heck maybe the plan even changes in 3 years and Dame stays with the next change in direction of the team, ultimately retiring here.

Having some of the best 5th and 6th rotational players in Roco/Norm/Nance of the last decade along with youth in Simons/NAS was a good way of possibly building a contender this season around Dame. When we saw the 3 guard starting lineup didn't work we just needed one trade to move a guard for a forward and this team could've had a chance to contend in the next few years.

But now trading two starters for 3 scrubs has removed that possibility. We lost assets to win with Dame and have no way to replace them. So what is the point the next 3 years of building a win now roster around Dame that has zero chance to contend?

The team is now in a complete rebuild.