Tank ain’t going to work

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Phatguysrule said:
We got Aldridge... We got Walton and won a title. Even though we didn't pick Jordan we still got Sam Bowie, and we traded Sam Bowie (who was a 20 and 10 guy for a few years) for Buck Williams....
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Were those due to tanking? I honestly do not know. I mean, to get Walton, i think they just really sucked? Did we actively tank to get Bowie? Aldridge?
 
GoZers said:
Were those due to tanking? I honestly do not know. I mean, to get Walton, i think they just really sucked? Did we actively tank to get Bowie? Aldridge?
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I think we went young. I don't advocate for trying to lose.

Just not keeping old guys who aren't part of the future around. You can always add vets to fill out your roster once you know what good young players you have.
 
SharpesTriumph said:
Sharpe also is not going to sit as he needs to earn his extension. Then there is supermax criteria for him to eventually start building a case for.
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We were able to sit Grant and Ant in seasons prior. All it takes is coming to an agreement on a number. That's not a big deal in terms of getting him to sit or not.
 
KingSpeed said:
Lots of middling teams like Minnesota and Atlanta, and Clippers all of which we’ve been capable of beating.
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Health obviously makes a difference. Phoenix was 8-1, then lost 4 of 5, their only victory against Utah.
The Suns are losing at home to Orlando right now. The Magic have some important injuries themselves.
 
Phatguysrule said:
We got Aldridge... We got Walton and won a title. Even though we didn't pick Jordan we still got Sam Bowie, and we traded Sam Bowie (who was a 20 and 10 guy for a few years) for Buck Williams....
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Bowie was never a 20 and 10 guy. The most points he ever averaged were 16 and the most rebounds he averaged were 10 and they were separate years.
 
KingSpeed said:
Bowie was never a 20 and 10 guy. The most points he ever averaged were 16 and the most rebounds he averaged were 10 and they were separate years.
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Shit, you're right. My mistake. I'm not sure who I was thinking about.

He was a pretty solid pro though (after the injuries).

And we did get Buck out of him.
 
AmirIcon said:
We were able to sit Grant and Ant in seasons prior. All it takes is coming to an agreement on a number. That's not a big deal in terms of getting him to sit or not.
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It's different because Sharpe will get a max regardless so there is no extra incentive we can give him.

But he needs to play to have a chance at all NBA eventually and getting a raise to supermax.

Beyond that's it's just kind of harmful for his development to tell him to sit, this is his 3rd season so he needs to play and learn how to lead the team. It's also our 4th year of tanking. It was different when it's backup quality guys, guys that are 28 like Grant, or a plan for a single season. We might be in the lottery again next year with another strong draft.
 
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SharpesTriumph said:
It's different because Sharpe will get a max regardless so there is no extra incentive we can give him.

But he needs to play to have a chance at all NBA eventually and getting a raise to supermax.

Beyond that's it's just kind of harmful for his development to tell him to sit, this is his 3rd season so he needs to play and learn how to lead the team. It's also our 4th year of tanking. It was different when it's backup quality guys, guys that are 28 like Grant, or a plan for a single season. We might be in the lottery again next year with another strong draft.
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I'm not debating whether or not it's good for him to sit. If they agreed to a deal, they would have no problem getting him to sit. He doesn't want to wait the money out, he wants a guarantee. It would be no issue at all as long as all parties agreed on the contract.

It's silly to suggest otherwise.
 
Most possible scenario I see with the Blazers (after last ten years of high hopes every year) is: 1. Blazers won't trade any of vet3 on trade dead line - "we watching market and offers closely and there was nothing we like and we don't want to sell low".
2. Tanking after all stars. Sharp will seat again.
3. We hit average player in draft. Someone that needs 4years to pop.

What is the fucking point?

Ant, Grant and Ayton are enough to add some young players. Get a good coach and try to play winning basketball.
 
I'd settle for Ace Bailey.

We need another top tier offensive prospect with size. Shae has been the only guy to show that potential. Can't assume Scoot will be that guy if you're planning carefully.
 
SharpesTriumph said:
Beyond that's it's just kind of harmful for his development to tell him to sit, this is his 3rd season so he needs to play and learn how to lead the team. It's also our 4th year of tanking.
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I already brought this up multiple times but I get shut down every time.
You simply cannot continue to tank. If you do the players you got when you started to tank leave. You have to pay them and play them. If the team still isn't good enough you have to trade them. Eventually Sharpe gets too expensive and then Scoot gets too expensive then Clingan gets his money and there is no room to bring in any help.
So now we are talking "max" for Sharpe? Eventually you have to trade out one of the guys you just tanked for.
 
KingSpeed said:
There are NINE teams in the East that are worse than us. And there are a lot of middle of the road teams in the west. I don’t think we’ll be in the running for a Top 5 draft pick so let’s go for the playoffs this year. Only 1 team wins it (well 2 if you include the Cup) but that doesn’t mean the other teams don’t have fun. This team is so much better on D than the Lillard (non Wes) teams and Sharpe is our best all around player since Drexler.
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Damn people comin around from that doom and gloom
 
AmirIcon said:
I'm not debating whether or not it's good for him to sit. If they agreed to a deal, they would have no problem getting him to sit. He doesn't want to wait the money out, he wants a guarantee. It would be no issue at all as long as all parties agreed on the contract.

It's silly to suggest otherwise.
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I don't think you understand how supermax contracts work, its not just up to the Blazers and Sharpe to negotiate it. Sharpe has to get votes for All-NBA and to do that he needs to play.
 
kjironman1 said:
I already brought this up multiple times but I get shut down every time.
You simply cannot continue to tank. If you do the players you got when you started to tank leave. You have to pay them and play them. If the team still isn't good enough you have to trade them. Eventually Sharpe gets too expensive and then Scoot gets too expensive then Clingan gets his money and there is no room to bring in any help.
So now we are talking "max" for Sharpe? Eventually you have to trade out one of the guys you just tanked for.
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All you have to do is look at the teams that are known as habitual tankers over the years and you will se exactly what you share.
 
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kjironman1 said:
I already brought this up multiple times but I get shut down every time.
You simply cannot continue to tank. If you do the players you got when you started to tank leave. You have to pay them and play them. If the team still isn't good enough you have to trade them. Eventually Sharpe gets too expensive and then Scoot gets too expensive then Clingan gets his money and there is no room to bring in any help.
So now we are talking "max" for Sharpe? Eventually you have to trade out one of the guys you just tanked for.
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Yeah its fine for one season to have some established veterans such as Dame/Grant/Nurk/etc sit for a better pick with the idea to use that and retool the next season for a playoff run. Dallas did it and followed that up the next season making the finals.

It's extremely different to start having 21 year olds sit out every year for large portions of their seasons. They already will have no basketball for 3 months of the playoffs when players on winning teams are developing in April, May, June. The NBA season is precious and young players on losing teams need to continue developing every season. This is year 4 the Blazers will be in the lottery and next year in another loaded draft will be year 5. You cannot have it be a part of their development where they have to sit out the majority of their career for a half decade. I'm kind of shocked so many posters seem to think that is a good way to develop a possible leader of the franchise.

Now the Blazers CAN do things like trade away veterans, or have all players be extra cautious sitting out with minor injuries that they would play through in the playoffs.
 
Watch Joe try to jump start the rebuild and trade for Brandon Ingram.
 
Strenuus said:
It's all about next year.
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No, it’s not. “Next year!” has been the rallying cry for Portland for most of their existence. Maybe you’re too young to know that. It’s fool’s gold to think that somehow next year is going to be the year. Sharpe could get injured again. So could Williams. So could anybody. The future is never guaranteed. That’s why it’s important to play hard and go all out every year.
 
BigGameDamian said:
Watch Joe try to jump start the rebuild and trade for Brandon Ingram.
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Honestly if we were looking playoff bound by the deadline I’d be for it. If we aren’t getting Flagg, Bailey or Edgecombe then I’ll take Ingram.
 
Bingo Bango said:
No, it’s not. “Next year!” has been the rallying cry for Portland for most of their existence. Maybe you’re too young to know that. It’s fool’s gold to think that somehow next year is going to be the year. Sharpe could get injured again. So could Williams. So could anybody. The future is never guaranteed. That’s why it’s important to play hard and go all out every year.
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No. You want to have a top 3 pick THIS season.
 
LayneStaley said:
Honestly if we were looking playoff bound by the deadline I’d be for it. If we aren’t getting Flagg, Bailey or Edgecombe then I’ll take Ingram.
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There are several players outside of those three I would rather have next year than Ingram.

I’d honestly rather have the 30th pick in this draft than Ingram at $50m+ a year in his next contract.
 
I have no problem with playing the young guys and seeing exactly who they are and hoping they get better but continuing to hold on to Ant/Ayton/Grant is just idiotic. It would be the most Blazer thing ever to finally 'make a run' at a play in spot this season with a stacked draft. Just another sports franchise that is fine with mediocrity and the same old fans who eat it up thinking a 44-38 record means something.
 
bigbailes said:
I have no problem with playing the young guys and seeing exactly who they are and hoping they get better but continuing to hold on to Ant/Ayton/Grant is just idiotic. It would be the most Blazer thing ever to finally 'make a run' at a play in spot this season with a stacked draft. Just another sports franchise that is fine with mediocrity and the same old fans who eat it up thinking a 44-38 record means something.
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Yeah it'll be something if we had the 3rd worst record in the weakest draft of the last decade, then try to win with irrelevant vets the next season in an epic loaded draft.

Made no sense having the off-season we did.
 
bigbailes said:
I have no problem with playing the young guys and seeing exactly who they are and hoping they get better but continuing to hold on to Ant/Ayton/Grant is just idiotic. It would be the most Blazer thing ever to finally 'make a run' at a play in spot this season with a stacked draft. Just another sports franchise that is fine with mediocrity and the same old fans who eat it up thinking a 44-38 record means something.
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A 44-38 season would mean several things. It would mean our youth are taking the leap we aspire them to take. It means that we will likely be better next year and the year after, considering how young we are and the room for vast growth across the roster.

It confounds me that people would be upset with a .500 record this year if led by the youth, like the last few games.
I would personally be ecstatic for the future with a .500 or near .500 record for the season.
 
Dozer said:
A 44-38 season would mean several things. It would mean our youth are taking the leap we aspire them to take. It means that we will likely be better next year and the year after, considering how young we are and the room for vast growth across the roster.

It confounds me that people would be upset with a .500 record this year if led by the youth, like the last few games.
I would personally be ecstatic for the future with a .500 or near .500 record for the season.
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I think most every rational fan would be ecstatic if we finished around .500 if it was done by Scoot, Sharpe, Camara, even Demi, Clingan, Murray, Rupert….and not Ant, Grant, Ayton
 
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