TANK! (1 Viewer)

[Phatguysrule]

This is the most depressing team we have ever had. We're wasting Dame's prime. We're on this fucking treadmill that is the Terry Stotts era. I get why people love the Terry/Dame/CJ core, but this group will never win.

I think Terry, Dame, CJ can win. But they'll need legit help that we don't have right now. Olshey is on the clock.

 

[BlazerRx]

This is the most depressing team we have ever had. We're wasting Dame's prime. We're on this fucking treadmill that is the Terry Stotts era. I get why people love the Terry/Dame/CJ core, but this group will never win.

I agree in that this team is hard to have a lot of hope in, with the injuries. What do you suggest?

 

[Natebishop3]

I think Terry, Dame, CJ can win. But they'll need legit help that we don't have right now. Olshey is on the clock.

Olshey has been on the clock. This team was horribly thin on the bench even before the injuries. Having guys get hurt just exposed how young/inexperienced/bad our bench was.

 

[Strenuus]

If i'm the GM i would make a gutsy move and trade Dolla for draft picks.

I'm all for tanking but i ain't for making really dumb moves.

 

[hoopsjock]

I'm all for tanking but i ain't for making really dumb moves.

Don't worry Dame can't be traded this season anyway so it's like automatic protection from stupidity, lol.

 

[Sarni]

We won't be tanking anyway. We are probably 2-3 weeks away from trading our first round pick for someone like Kevin Love, harming our future in pursuit of 4-5 playoff games against Lakers this year.

 

[BonesJones]

If i'm the GM i would make a gutsy move and trade Dolla for draft picks.

Except he cant this entire year. So no, you wouldnt. And thank god youre not the GM. Thatd be ridiculous.

 

[wizenheimer]

a team with Lillard won't be able to successfully tank unless they lock him in the Moda basement for 4 months

Portland could do a tank-lite by trading Whiteside and Bazemore for scrub players + picks on expiring contracts, then waive the scrubs. But neither Hassan or Kent has the value to bring back good picks. A future late 1st would be the best case scenario, but it might just be a handful of 2nd's. Then go with Skal and Moses as the big men....now that will pile up the losses

of course, that disrespects Dame and wastes a year of his prime. But Olshey and Stotts have been doing that already, and if Dame remains obstinate about not trading away teammates, he'd just have to be satisfied with the 350M dollars he'll have made in salary by the time he turns 35....yeeeeesh! (and that doesn't include endorsement deals...so my god, a half billion dollars...for chrissakes, I'd have sold my prime for a tenth of that!). IMO. the only way to significantly alter the 'long-term' trajectory of this team upward is to trade CJ for an upgrade at one of the forward spots.

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

a team with Lillard won't be able to successfully tank unless they lock him in the Moda basement for 4 months

Portland could do a tank-lite by trading Whiteside and Bazemore for scrub players + picks on expiring contracts. But neither player has the value to bring back good picks. A future late 1st would be the best case scenario, but it might just be a handful of 2nd's. Then go with Skal and Moses as the big men....now that will pile up the losses

of course, that disrespects Dame and wastes a year of his prime. But Olshey and Stotts have been doing that already, and if Dame remains obstinate about not trading away teammates, he'd just have to be satisfied with the 350M dollars he'll have made in salary by the time he turns 35....yeeeeesh! (and that doesn't include endorsement deals...so my god, a half billion dollars...for chrissakes, I'd have sold my prime for a tenth of that!). IMO. the only way to significantly alter the 'long-term' trajectory of this team upward is to trade CJ for an upgrade at one of the forward spots.

The team has Dame right and looks pretty capable of being really bad. -I agree with you for the most part just pointing out, they look like a 30ish win team right now. That may not be 1st pick type tanking but its still a mid level lottery team.

 

[tester551]

a team with Lillard won't be able to successfully tank unless they lock him in the Moda basement for 4 months

Portland could do a tank-lite by trading Whiteside and Bazemore for scrub players + picks on expiring contracts, then waive the scrubs. But neither Hassan or Kent has the value to bring back good picks. A future late 1st would be the best case scenario, but it might just be a handful of 2nd's. Then go with Skal and Moses as the big men....now that will pile up the losses

of course, that disrespects Dame and wastes a year of his prime. But Olshey and Stotts have been doing that already, and if Dame remains obstinate about not trading away teammates, he'd just have to be satisfied with the 350M dollars he'll have made in salary by the time he turns 35....yeeeeesh! (and that doesn't include endorsement deals...so my god, a half billion dollars...for chrissakes, I'd have sold my prime for a tenth of that!). IMO. the only way to significantly alter the 'long-term' trajectory of this team upward is to trade CJ for an upgrade at one of the forward spots.

I completely agree with you here.

My secret hope now that the season has gone to pot... It be nice for Dame to get a small injury (a broken bone in his left hand?) so that he HAS to sit out for a while.
Trade Whiteside & Bazemore to contenders for scrub players to reduce salary & for cost-controlled players next year. For example Whiteside + Mario to Dallas for Courtney Lee (expiring) + Delon Wright ($9M for 3yrs) would save Portland ~$6.5M before tax (~$15M including tax).
You let CJ go wild & show that he's a much better player when he has the keys to a team & then trade CJ in June/July around the draft for a better FIT with Dame/Nurk.

 

[Phatguysrule]

Olshey has been on the clock. This team was horribly thin on the bench even before the injuries. Having guys get hurt just exposed how young/inexperienced/bad our bench was.

This team wasn't actually assembled to be relied upon beyond the trade deadline. If some guys blew up that would be fine. But these guys were all about fixing the roster for next season and beyond.

Being in the playoffs this season would have been a bonus.

 

[TBpup]

Posted this in the 'Patience' thread but realized is was probably more appropriate here.

'Patience' is what many Warriors fans seem to have. There is a large group of my gf's friends down in the Bay area where her main office is. Almost without exception, they are all in on the tank. They can't wait to add a high Lottory pick or the asset that might bring to a healthy Curry, Thompson and Green...or whatever asset Green might bring.

They believe their reset time will be very short but think it is the best use of this season in the long run when winning enough games here or there to put them in the 4-14 Lottery range would be worth almost nothing. They are happy to see what talent they may have with the young kids and then make a legit attempt to make a run again starting next year.

And every one of them is a 'True Fan'.

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

Posted this in the 'Patience' thread but realized is was probably more appropriate here.

'Patience' is what many Warriors fans seem to have. There is a large group of my gf's friends down in the Bay area where her main office is. Almost without exception, they are all in on the tank. They can't wait to add a high Lottory pick or the asset that might bring to a healthy Curry, Thompson and Green...or whatever asset Green might bring.

They believe their reset time will be very short but think it is the best use of this season in the long run when winning enough games here or there to put them in the 4-14 Lottery range would be worth almost nothing. They are happy to see what talent they may have with the young kids and then make a legit attempt to make a run again starting next year.

And every one of them is a 'True Fan'.

Warriors fans have patience because they've recently dominated the NBA for half a decade, and have an MVP sitting out with a hand injury and a Superstar SG rehabbing his knee... I would never tell someone they aren't a true fan, so this isn't about that. I'm telling you though if the Blazers had just got done with the type of dominance that the Warriors have had our tone would be incredibly different, we aren't even relatively close to the same situation.

Their "reset" though starts at a much higher place than the Blazers does.

I think were kind of fooling ourselves if we think we can be bad for a year pick up a Luka substitute and be super next year. The reason I think that is we don't know if Nurk will always have health issues it's starting to feel that way. Zach's missing most of a year that is supposed to be development time for him. It appears that Dame is going to get ran into the ground.
The issue is that you have to get so lucky in the draft and guys as good as Luka come some rarely, and even with as good as Luka is he wasn't the #1 pick, it's kind of pick a guy and hope.

I'll respect the opinions of all of you guys that want to just straight up suck this year, but I'm really not on there, I think too much has to go right, they need to make a lot of moves, and I'd agree they shouldn't make a bunch of short term moves at this point, need to be thinking about seasons coming up.

 

[TBpup]

@TorturedBlazerFan ...well thought out rebuttal that I can totally respect. And I agree it takes some luck to reset, but almost ANY additional talent via a high Lottery pick or the asset that could bring is much needed on this team. Here is why I believe that to be the case.

@wizenheimer posted this: Blazers are now 1-9 against teams with winning records this year. In the close-out playoff series for the Dame-CJ teams since 2015-16, Portland is 1-16 and have lost 14 in a row; and the only win came against the Warriors 4 years ago when Curry didn't play.

This year that is largely because of injuries but there is a 4 year pattern here when it becomes crunch time against quality opponents. It seems like the Blazers need as much talent added as they can get. This year seems like the perfect opportunity to do that. It might be a long shot and require some luck but clearly, the approach they have taken over the last 4 years isn't working. A 'Long Shot' is better than what they have now which is 'No Shot' so I'm willing to lose a few meaningless games now for a chance to make a real difference in the long term.....before Dame runs out of 'prime' years.

 

[Hoopguru]

@TorturedBlazerFan ...well thought out rebuttal that I can totally respect. And I agree it takes some luck to reset, but almost ANY additional talent via a high Lottery pick or the asset that could bring is much needed on this team. Here is why I believe that to be the case.

@wizenheimer posted this: Blazers are now 1-9 against teams with winning records this year. In the close-out playoff series for the Dame-CJ teams since 2015-16, Portland is 1-16 and have lost 14 in a row; and the only win came against the Warriors 4 years ago when Curry didn't play.

This year that is largely because of injuries but there is a 4 year pattern here when it becomes crunch time against quality opponents. It seems like the Blazers need as much talent added as they can get. This year seems like the perfect opportunity to do that. It might be a long shot and require some luck but clearly, the approach they have taken over the last 4 years isn't working. A 'Long Shot' is better than what they have now which is 'No Shot' so I'm willing to lose a few meaningless games now for a chance to make a real difference in the long term.....before Dame runs out of 'prime' years.

I doubt that Dame or CJ would buy into tanking.

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

@TorturedBlazerFan ...well thought out rebuttal that I can totally respect. And I agree it takes some luck to reset, but almost ANY additional talent via a high Lottery pick or the asset that could bring is much needed on this team. Here is why I believe that to be the case.

@wizenheimer posted this: Blazers are now 1-9 against teams with winning records this year. In the close-out playoff series for the Dame-CJ teams since 2015-16, Portland is 1-16 and have lost 14 in a row; and the only win came against the Warriors 4 years ago when Curry didn't play.

This year that is largely because of injuries but there is a 4 year pattern here when it becomes crunch time against quality opponents. It seems like the Blazers need as much talent added as they can get. This year seems like the perfect opportunity to do that. It might be a long shot and require some luck but clearly, the approach they have taken over the last 4 years isn't working. A 'Long Shot' is better than what they have now which is 'No Shot' so I'm willing to lose a few meaningless games now for a chance to make a real difference in the long term.....before Dame runs out of 'prime' years.

I understand the idea of tanking at least short term and yeah if it meant a championship in the next few years than I'd gladly watch them go 0-82 this year.

Just so much has to go right, and losing can get really contagious. I know the idea is "next year they'll be good again", just like the Spurs did when they got Duncan and all of that. I just think there is ample opportunity for the tanking strategy to yield basically nothing.

It looks like they might be forced into tanking without trying to lose, so I think we will get your wish. I do hope it works out.

 

[CupWizier]

I doubt that Dame or CJ would buy into tanking.

Heck, I would take it even further and say that none of the players are willing to lay down and tank. Athletes aren't cut that way. Besides, that's totally unfair to the people who have bought tickets. I want a team always putting out their best available and trying to win.

 

[CupWizier]

I understand the idea of tanking at least short term and yeah if it meant a championship in the next few years than I'd gladly watch them go 0-82 this year.

Just so much has to go right, and losing can get really contagious. I know the idea is "next year they'll be good again", just like the Spurs did when they got Duncan and all of that. I just think there is ample opportunity for the tanking strategy to yield basically nothing.

It looks like they might be forced into tanking without trying to lose, so I think we will get your wish. I do hope it works out.

Not sure I follow you as what is being forced into tanking? .

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

Heck, I would take it even further and say that none of the players are willing to lay down and tank. Athletes aren't cut that way. Besides, that's totally unfair to the people who have bought tickets. I want a team always putting out their best available and trying to win.

Just to play Devil's advocate a bit, an organization's strategy shouldn't be implemented based on what the players want. Yes maybe their input needs to be given like if Dame is going to ask to be traded if you say were gonna rebuild, or tank, or trade for this guy, then you don't do that, unless you're really committed to that. However, management has to make those kind of decisions as to what is best for them long term. Players tend to think much more short term and about their career, more than the organization's long term health. I agree with you about wanting them to keep trying though.

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

Not sure I follow you as what is being forced into tanking? .

Not having their starting Center, Power Forward, and Small Forward, being forced into playing guys who probably shouldn't be playing, maybe it's not "forced tanking", but I think the record could end up looking bad, but most teams with that many injuries would look bad at the end of the year.

 

[TBpup]

I doubt that Dame or CJ would buy into tanking.

I doubt they would either. But sometimes, it takes a strategized retreat to move ahead, a re-org, belt-tightening, whatever. My fear is the biggest waste of this season will be to finish somewhere in the #6 Lottery standing to #5 or lower Playoff seed. That might be fine when your team is young and building but this team is in it's Prime Dame/CJ years. They need to either be closing in on legit contender status, or going all in on what could help them get there.

Agreed, there are no guarantees in the Draft and players like Luka don't come along very often....but you never know. What I do know with this season's team is that they won't approach the contender status of where they should be in their progression....so do absolutely everything in your power to fix that as quickly as possible. A legit shot at a Top-3 pick vs a bad Lottery pick or another sweep/gentleman's sweep out of the Playoffs that does nothing to help this team next season seems like an easy decision.

We've been down the 'learning from being swept' road long enough.

 

[CupWizier]

Not having their starting Center, Power Forward, and Small Forward, being forced into playing guys who probably shouldn't be playing, maybe it's not "forced tanking", but I think the record could end up looking bad, but most teams with that many injuries would look bad at the end of the year.

That's not only not forced tanking, it's not any kind of tanking. Tanking is not trying to win. Team should put out its best lineup and continue try and win. If they win great, if they lose then that's what sometimes happens. I think people get confused as to what tanking really means.

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

That's not only not forced tanking, it's not any kind of tanking. Tanking is not trying to win. Team should put out its best lineup and continue try and win. If they win great, if they lose then that's what sometimes happens. I think people get confused as to what tanking really means.

Well, I think its semantics, tanking means different things to different but either way, they likelihood of having a bad record and getting a lottery pick is greater now with all the injuries.

 

[CupWizier]

Well, I think its semantics, tanking means different things to different but either way, they likelihood of having a bad record and getting a lottery pick is greater now with all the injuries.

Here's the definition attributed to sports and how I view what tanking means.

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Featured snippet from the web
II. Tanking in the NBA. In this Note, more narrowly, the term “tanking” refers to when NBA teams purposely lose in the short term to obtain higher picks in the NBA draft that (they hope) will help them win in the long term.

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

Here's the definition attributed to sports and how I view what tanking means.

Search Results
Featured snippet from the web
II. Tanking in the NBA. In this Note, more narrowly, the term “tanking” refers to when NBA teams purposely lose in the short term to obtain higher picks in the NBA draft that (they hope) will help them win in the long term.

Fair enough, but I did say thats not what I meant and changed my wording in the following posts.

 

[Hoopguru]

Fair enough, but I did say thats not what I meant and changed my wording in the following posts.

I still think we have several good assets that could, through a trade after Sunday, bring in a very good 3/4 and possibly a back up pg that I feel we need.

 

[hoopsjock]

@TorturedBlazerFan ...well thought out rebuttal that I can totally respect. And I agree it takes some luck to reset, but almost ANY additional talent via a high Lottery pick or the asset that could bring is much needed on this team. Here is why I believe that to be the case.

@wizenheimer posted this: Blazers are now 1-9 against teams with winning records this year. In the close-out playoff series for the Dame-CJ teams since 2015-16, Portland is 1-16 and have lost 14 in a row; and the only win came against the Warriors 4 years ago when Curry didn't play.

This year that is largely because of injuries but there is a 4 year pattern here when it becomes crunch time against quality opponents. It seems like the Blazers need as much talent added as they can get. This year seems like the perfect opportunity to do that. It might be a long shot and require some luck but clearly, the approach they have taken over the last 4 years isn't working. A 'Long Shot' is better than what they have now which is 'No Shot' so I'm willing to lose a few meaningless games now for a chance to make a real difference in the long term.....before Dame runs out of 'prime' years.

You're a smart guy and everything you are saying is true but you just keep blowing past the ultimate deal breaker for your scenario that teams can't just decide to lose on purpose. It's one thing to be okay with them losing or to see the silver lining in all the losses but they just aren't going to lose these games on purpose. You know that. For all the reasons @TorturedBlazerFan mentioned the GS situation is perfect for them. What choice do their fans have other than to be patient? It's not like they are choosing to lose.

 

[tlongII]

I understand the idea of tanking at least short term and yeah if it meant a championship in the next few years than I'd gladly watch them go 0-82 this year.

Just so much has to go right, and losing can get really contagious. I know the idea is "next year they'll be good again", just like the Spurs did when they got Duncan and all of that. I just think there is ample opportunity for the tanking strategy to yield basically nothing.

It looks like they might be forced into tanking without trying to lose, so I think we will get your wish. I do hope it works out.

You have to play the percentages. Sure you have to be lucky to get a difference maker in the draft, but your chances are much better with a high draft pick than a lower one.

 

[TBpup]

You're a smart guy and everything you are saying is true but you just keep blowing past the ultimate deal breaker for your scenario that teams can't just decide to lose on purpose. It's one thing to be okay with them losing or to see the silver lining in all the losses but they just aren't going to lose these games on purpose. You know that. For all the reasons @TorturedBlazerFan mentioned the GS situation is perfect for them. What choice do their fans have other than to be patient? It's not like they are choosing to lose.

Cuban came out and said they were tanking. He's the owner....I have to take him at his word and that was passed that down throughout the organization. It worked well for them and they didn't have NEAR the talent coming back that Portland will. To be fair, he didn't have personalities like Dame to convince that tanking was the direction they were going.

 

[hoopsjock]

Cuban came out and said they were tanking. He's the owner....I have to take him at his word and that was passed that down throughout the organization. It worked well for them and they didn't have NEAR the talent coming back that Portland will. To be fair, he didn't have personalities like Dame to convince that tanking was the direction they were going.

He said they were tanking because their team was awful and Dirk was like 80 years old. This Blazers team is nothing like that team.