TANK! (1 Viewer)

[e_blazer]

I hope we don't play Nurk this season. Let the big fella rest up and come back next season. Perhaps he can work on his 3-point shooting in the meantime. No way we should be jeopardizing his health....or Dame's for that matter.....on a lost season.

Sorry, but this makes no sense to me. Nurk hasn't played in almost a year. Just how much rest do you think a NBA athlete needs? What he needs after 11 months of recovery is a ramped up level of practice and, assuming his body responds well to that, a return to game play. After that length of time, with a titanium rod inserted in his leg, I don't see how he could be at risk from the injury. It's just a matter of getting the rest of his body back into game shape.

 

[Jade Falcon]

Sorry, but this makes no sense to me. Nurk hasn't played in almost a year. Just how much rest do you think a NBA athlete needs? What he needs after 11 months of recovery is a ramped up level of practice and, assuming his body responds well to that, a return to game play. After that length of time, with a titanium rod inserted in his leg, I don't see how he could be at risk from the injury. It's just a matter of getting the rest of his body back into game shape.

Sorry, I meant "rest" as in "practice on his game and get back into game-shape". Not sit around and do nothing. But with this season a loss and his flair-up, why risk playing him in a game? It makes zero sense to me.

I'm quite certain he wants to play. But patience is the better part of valor on a lost season. Start anew next year.

 

[e_blazer]

Sorry, I meant "rest" as in "practice on his game and get back into game-shape". Not sit around and do nothing. But with this season a loss and his flair-up, why risk playing him in a game? It makes zero sense to me.

I'm quite certain he wants to play. But patience is the better part of valor on a lost season. Start anew next year.

Simply because the players and coaching staff don't consider the season a loss yet. They think that they can get back to winning, secure the 8th seed and that, with the return of Nurk, achieve more success than they've shown so far this season. As a fan, I wouldn't put money on that happening anymore, but I'd sure enjoy the heck out of it if it happens. I think that we throw around the idea of tanking far more casually than players, coaches and GMs do. A lot rides on each season's outcomes. Players want that playoff exposure because it can be a boost to their future earnings. Coaches need to win in order to keep their jobs or get new ones. GMs have to answer to owners for huge salaries. Business guys rely on playoffs for extra revenue and for sales of tickets and merchandise the next season. Organizations, particularly small town operations, can't afford to get tagged with a loser reputation. Bottom line, despite what fans may think is the best relative to draft picks, I expect that the Blazers will keep pushing to win until they reach a point where there's no chance of making the playoffs. Assuming Nurk is healthy, at some point he's going to be a part of that.

 

[Jade Falcon]

Simply because the players and coaching staff don't consider the season a loss yet. They think that they can get back to winning, secure the 8th seed and that, with the return of Nurk, achieve more success than they've shown so far this season. As a fan, I wouldn't put money on that happening anymore, but I'd sure enjoy the heck out of it if it happens. I think that we throw around the idea of tanking far more casually than players, coaches and GMs do. A lot rides on each season's outcomes. Players want that playoff exposure because it can be a boost to their future earnings. Coaches need to win in order to keep their jobs or get new ones. GMs have to answer to owners for huge salaries. Business guys rely on playoffs for extra revenue and for sales of tickets and merchandise the next season. Organizations, particularly small town operations, can't afford to get tagged with a loser reputation. Bottom line, despite what fans may think is the best relative to draft picks, I expect that the Blazers will keep pushing to win until they reach a point where there's no chance of making the playoffs. Assuming Nurk is healthy, at some point he's going to be a part of that.

Fair enough. I still maintain that it's not wise to risk it, but hey....I'm also not a coach. Or athlete.

I would like to see them fully healthy and make a run of course, but it's not going to happen.

 

[hoopsjock]

Hypothetically let's say Dame's groin doesn't get better and we sit him out the rest of the season (just for sake of discussion).

What's the highest you think this team could move up in the draft?

When I look at the standings I see 9th in the lottery at "best" because we are 5.5 games up on 8th with 26 games left. Even if the Blazers were terrible the rest of the season I just don't see many of the teams 1 through 8 winning much either.

 

[illmatic99]

Hypothetically let's say Dame's groin doesn't get better and we sit him out the rest of the season (just for sake of discussion).

What's the highest you think this team could move up in the draft?

When I look at the standings I see 9th in the lottery at "best" because we are 5.5 games up on 8th with 26 games left. Even if the Blazers were terrible the rest of the season I just don't see many of the teams 1 through 8 winning much either.

With the new odds, that's actually kinda interesting. 9th in the lotto puts us at a 20% shot at landing top 4, vs 2.4% where we are now. http://www.tankathon.com/

As a reference, NO started lotto night 7th and MEM 8th. And they landed #1 and #2 respectively.

How good is this draft?

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

With the new odds, that's actually kinda interesting. 9th in the lotto puts us at a 20% shot at landing top 4, vs 2.4% where we are now. http://www.tankathon.com/

As a reference, NO started lotto night 7th and MEM 8th. And they landed #1 and #2 respectively.

How good is this draft?

Not good IMO

 

[Minstrel]

How good is this draft?

One of the worst in the past 10-15 years.

 

[hoopsjock]

With the new odds, that's actually kinda interesting. 9th in the lotto puts us at a 20% shot at landing top 4, vs 2.4% where we are now. http://www.tankathon.com/

As a reference, NO started lotto night 7th and MEM 8th. And they landed #1 and #2 respectively.

How good is this draft?

It's probably the worst draft since the Anthony Bennett 2013 draft in terms of the top picks. Obviously having a top-4 pick is better than 14-17 but much like that 2013 draft (Adams, Giannis, Gobert, Hardaway, Olynyk, Schroder, Plumlee), there will be a lot of quality outside the top 10. Obviously not the star potential of Giannis but it's pretty loaded with guys who will be solid role players.

The main problem from the Blazers' perspective is that outside of Advija and Toppin most of the prospects worth moving up for are either guards or centers. So moving up is great from an asset perspective but not necessarily super helpful in terms of landing a can't miss star. This might also be the type of draft that if there was a guy that Portland really wanted outside the top 4 or 5 picks it might not cost as much as normal to move up to get.

 

[e_blazer]

It's probably the worst draft since the Anthony Bennett 2013 draft in terms of the top picks. Obviously having a top-4 pick is better than 14-17 but much like that 2013 draft (Adams, Giannis, Gobert, Hardaway, Olynyk, Schroder, Plumlee), there will be a lot of quality outside the top 10. Obviously not the star potential of Giannis but it's pretty loaded with guys who will be solid role players.

The main problem from the Blazers' perspective is that outside of Advija and Toppin most of the prospects worth moving up for are either guards or centers. So moving up is great from an asset perspective but not necessarily super helpful in terms of landing a can't miss star. This might also be the type of draft that if there was a guy that Portland really wanted outside the top 4 or 5 picks it might not cost as much as normal to move up to get.

Unless there's someone who can realistically be expected to crack the rotation next season, I really don't see the Blazers being interested in putting an emphasis on the draft as opposed to making the playoffs. They already have young guys in Simons, Little, and Trent who are in hte development stage and look to be contributors. I'd think that the Blazers would be more likely to look to package a pick in the 8-10 range with a player in hopes of acquiring someone through a trade who can be an upgrade at SF.

 

[illmatic99]

No one thought Giannis was going to be this transcendental star either, but if there is anyone with high variance in potential, I'd hope Neil learned his lesson form 2013. We can afford to take chances as this pick is not that VITAL for our future. Don't go for high floor, low ceiling dudes.

There anyone like that in this draft? ugh, I hate that I need to start reading this shit again, this early in the season.

 

[hoopsjock]

No one thought Giannis was going to be this transcendental star either, but if there is anyone with high variance in potential, I'd hope Neil learned his lesson form 2013. We can afford to take chances as this pick is not that VITAL for our future. Don't go for high floor, low ceiling dudes.

There anyone like that in this draft? ugh, I hate that I need to start reading this shit again, this early in the season.

I think the last couple years Olshey has employed that strategy with Collins, Simons, and Little. Hopefully he learned from the Swanigan pick.

The problem with projecting the next Giannis is that he was so terrible offensively at the time of the draft. Even if he played college ball his stats would've looked really bad. Most guys with his length are slower bigs in this draft. There are a few intriguing athletic wings like Okoro from Auburn but he's only listed at 6'6" and can't shoot. Jaden McDaniels from Washington is listed as 6'9" but doesn't really shoot well either and is super raw. How do you project guys like that to turn into 30 point per game scorers? It's tough but that's the reason someone like Giannis falls. This draft is super PG and PF/C heavy though.

 

[hoopsjock]

Unless there's someone who can realistically be expected to crack the rotation next season, I really don't see the Blazers being interested in putting an emphasis on the draft as opposed to making the playoffs. They already have young guys in Simons, Little, and Trent who are in hte development stage and look to be contributors. I'd think that the Blazers would be more likely to look to package a pick in the 8-10 range with a player in hopes of acquiring someone through a trade who can be an upgrade at SF.

Yeah, for sure the organization isn't going to tank unless they're mathematically eliminated which by that point will probably be too late. It was just hypothetical though.

What's weird though is they weren't willing to trade their 1st round pick at the deadline so that doesn't fall in line with them trading their pick at the draft (it will be very difficult to do this anyway) or them emphasizing the playoffs over the draft.

 

[e_blazer]

Yeah, for sure the organization isn't going to tank unless they're mathematically eliminated which by that point will probably be too late. It was just hypothetical though.

What's weird though is they weren't willing to trade their 1st round pick at the deadline so that doesn't fall in line with them trading their pick at the draft (it will be very difficult to do this anyway) or them emphasizing the playoffs over the draft.

Well, those cheap rookie contracts are a big help in luxury tax avoidance, so I guess it makes sense to stockpile young players even if they don’t fit Dame’s window.

 

[CupWizier]

I think the last couple years Olshey has employed that strategy with Collins, Simons, and Little. Hopefully he learned from the Swanigan pick.

The problem with projecting the next Giannis is that he was so terrible offensively at the time of the draft. Even if he played college ball his stats would've looked really bad. Most guys with his length are slower bigs in this draft. There are a few intriguing athletic wings like Okoro from Auburn but he's only listed at 6'6" and can't shoot. Jaden McDaniels from Washington is listed as 6'9" but doesn't really shoot well either and is super raw. How do you project guys like that to turn into 30 point per game scorers? It's tough but that's the reason someone like Giannis falls. This draft is super PG and PF/C heavy though.

Funny you mention learning from the Swanigan pick as I remember you at OLive as you were trying to talk me into him as the pick for Portland.

 

[BonesJones]

That short run Dame was on was historic and entertaining as he!! to see. But this team is NOT a Playoff team. Outside that 2+ week, hot lava stretch where the Blazers went 7-3, they are 18-28. That is a .391 winning percentage. Only because the #8 spot is historically bad for the West did that brief stretch keep hope alive for a Playoff spot when in actuallity, it just extended the misery.

This team needs more talent and more athletic ability at almost every position. Yes, injuries have hurt but Nurk (hurt almost every season), Collins (throw in to the PF spot because Aminu was terrible in the Playoffs), nor Hood (great stretch to start the season...but Portland still played .400 ball) coming back is not fixing all of this.

Whiteside can be good at times and maddeningly disappear at others. Ariza has been a breath of fresh air but there is only so much left in those 34 year old legs. Carmello reminds you of someone who used to be good 5-10 years ago but is a shell of his former self. CJ is good as a spot up shooter and almost nothing else....good piece to have, but no where near a Max player. And the rest are too young to make a consistant impact on a nightly basis, even though they show flashes at times.

To have all of this attached to Dame like an anchor is sad to watch. He has fought, clawed and scrapped his way to keep the Blazers even close to being in the Playoff race with the help of some other not very good teams hovering around the sub .500 mark. And as much as I never want to see anyone hurt, especially Dame, perhaps this is for the best.

Treat this injury like how Golden State is treating a hand injury that was supposed to be healed in a couple of months......retreat and regroup for another attack with fresh legs, fresh supplies, and maybe a few new pieces of upgraded equipment.

Hmm... It's almost as if a team looks much worse record wise when you remove their best 10 game stretch.

 

[BonesJones]

Funny you mention learning from the Swanigan pick as I remember you at OLive as you were trying to talk me into him as the pick for Portland.

Not everyone is always 100% right on things... except you of course

 

[GDiama]

The main problem from the Blazers' perspective is that outside of Advija and Toppin most of the prospects worth moving up for are either guards or centers. So moving up is great from an asset perspective but not necessarily super helpful in terms of landing a can't miss star. This might also be the type of draft that if there was a guy that Portland really wanted outside the top 4 or 5 picks it might not cost as much as normal to move up to get.

If Zach improves his outside shot a young big would be a good get in my opinion as I don't think there is any chance Whiteside stays here. And we still don't have anybody capable of playing PG in this roster outside of Lillard. Not that a rookie would solve the issue from day one, but Simons is not really a pg and neither is Trent ofc so if we don't plan signing a veteran one (if we don't it's huge mistake in my opinion) it won't hurt to draft one.

 

[CupWizier]

Not everyone is always 100% right on things... except you of course

 

[TBpup]

Hmm... It's almost as if a team looks much worse record wise when you remove their best 10 game stretch.

Look at you being brilliant. It wasn't so much removing their best 10-game stretch but removing an extremely rare, historical couple of weeks where Dame went supernova that provided that 10-game stretch. It's not like the team was playing significantly better. It was one player that had a run unlike anything we have seen at that many level in NBA history. Great fun to watch....but an outlier by far, to the rest of the season.

 

[lawai'a]

Look at you being brilliant. It wasn't so much removing their best 10-game stretch but removing an extremely rare, historical couple of weeks where Dame went supernova that provided that 10-game stretch. It's not like the team was playing significantly better. It was one player that had a run unlike anything we have seen at that many level in NBA history. Great fun to watch....but an outlier by far, to the rest of the season.

I don't think it can be so easily dismissed as the team also added Ariza and Bazemore was no longer in the rotation, both contributors to the ten game stretch as well as the emergence of GTjr. All three of those factors will continue going forward.

 

[BonesJones]

Look at you being brilliant. It wasn't so much removing their best 10-game stretch but removing an extremely rare, historical couple of weeks where Dame went supernova that provided that 10-game stretch. It's not like the team was playing significantly better. It was one player that had a run unlike anything we have seen at that many level in NBA history. Great fun to watch....but an outlier by far, to the rest of the season.

They also underperformed mightily at times too, which could be considered an outlier too. Just depends how you look at it. Thats why I just look at overall record.

 

[TBpup]

They also underperformed mightily at times too, which could be considered an outlier too. Just depends how you look at it. Thats why I just look at overall record.

Exactly, completely agree. Which has let to being 5 losses behind the #8 spot, which is hystorically poor for the West.

 

[wizenheimer]

They also underperformed mightily at times too, which could be considered an outlier too. Just depends how you look at it. Thats why I just look at overall record.

Exactly, completely agree. Which has let to being 5 losses behind the #8 spot, which is hystorically poor for the West.

as somebody else here pointed out, I forget who, Portland's record got a sizable bump from Dame going supernova. They won 5 of 6 and were 7-3 over a 10 game stretch. But Dame came back to earth and when he did, Portland was 2-4 over their last 6 games before the break

take out that 7-3 stretch and Portland was 18-28. If Dame just plays normal and you apply that winning rate to that 10 game stretch, Portland's record right now would be 22-34. That would put them 7 games behind Memphis for 8th seed. And they'd be 12th seed right now (perfect opportunity for subtle tanking)

if Memphis goes 12-15 over the rest of the season, Portland would have had to go 18-8 just to tie them, and that's assuming Portland would own the tiebreaker. If they split the last two games, Memphis would own tiebreaker

as it is, Portland probably has a better than even chance of catching Memphis, providing Dame doesn't miss 6 or more games. But Dame going on a historical run is the only reason Portland is in this position

 

[BonesJones]

as somebody else here pointed out, I forget who, Portland's record got a sizable bump from Dame going supernova. They won 5 of 6 and were 7-3 over a 10 game stretch. But Dame came back to earth and when he did, Portland was 2-4 over their last 6 games before the break

take out that 7-3 stretch and Portland was 18-28. If Dame just plays normal and you apply that winning rate to that 10 game stretch, Portland's record right now would be 22-34. That would put them 7 games behind Memphis for 8th seed. And they'd be 12th seed right now (perfect opportunity for subtle tanking)

if Memphis goes 12-15 over the rest of the season, Portland would have had to go 18-8 just to tie them, and that's assuming Portland would own the tiebreaker. If they split the last two games, Memphis would own tiebreaker

as it is, Portland probably has a better than even chance of catching Memphis, providing Dame doesn't miss 6 or more games. But Dame going on a historical run is the only reason Portland is in this position

But the team mightily underachieving is the only reason why Dame needed a historical run to be in this position. Too often I only see one side of the coin being looked at. You can divide up a small sample of anything and claim it was an outlier. You could claim mightily underachieving for our 10 worst games as an "outlier".

 

[ABM]

Yeah, with Dame injured and 5 games out, at this point, tanking appears to be a bit more palatable.

Tanking in terms of, "develop the youth!"

 

[Jade Falcon]

Yeah, with Dame injured and 5 games out, at this point, tanking appears to be a bit more palatable.

Tanking in terms of, "develop the youth!"

LOL. And I was ridiculed for suggesting it.

"But but but.....tanking is for LOOOOSERS! " LMAO fuck off. We're tanking, get over it.

 

[BonesJones]

LOL. And I was ridiculed for suggesting it.

"But but but.....tanking is for LOOOOSERS! " LMAO fuck off. We're tanking, get over it.

Dame is hurt. That doesn't equal tanking. You also just dumbed down a quote that nobody said.

 

[Jade Falcon]

Dame is hurt. That doesn't equal tanking. You also just dumbed down a quote that nobody said.

Bones, you need to scroll back through this thread, because it most certainly WAS said.

 

[tlongII]

Good job last night!