Tax Reform For Oregon

[BLAZER PROPHET]

So the idea here is to reduce the state income tax (primariliy for high wage earners) and add a 5% sales tax (capitolizing on the tourist industry). The supporters further claim a sales tax adds 55,000 jobs in the state. My #1 concern is that once a sales tax starts, it just seems to go up and up...

http://www.oregonlive.com/politics/index.ssf/2013/11/oregon_sales_tax_plan_claims_t.html

Instead, a 5 percent sales tax is part of a proposal lawmakers are using to build a blueprint for tax reform. The proposal, shared with The Oregonian by Sen. Mark Hass, also projects that its reforms would create 55,405 new jobs and raise $488 million a year in net tax revenue.

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So how would Hass’ proposal both raise revenue and create jobs? Hass said he’s still fine-tuning details. But, generally, the plan would would set income tax rates at 2, 4 and 6 percent, add tax cuts for homeowners, low-income taxpayers, and on Oregon-based investments.

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The basic takeaway is this: If more people move to Oregon, or more people bring their money to the state, tax revenue will increase.

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Households earning $185,879 or greater would see the biggest benefit from the tax changes, with an average $7,346 more each year. Every other income group would see a slight dip in household income.

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Many economists believe reducing Oregon’s income tax rates is the key to addressing a giant gulf between Portland and its Clark County neighbors.

Oregon doesn’t have a sales tax, so it attracts retail businesses that cluster along the Columbia River. Washington doesn’t have an income tax, so it attracts people with large investment portfolios.

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[Natebishop3]

No to sales tax.

What they NEED to do is reassess the tax brackets. They're old and outdated. They don't take into account inflation at all. People who make over 36k end up giving 25% to the Feds and 7% to the state. We do not live in an economy where people making 36k can afford to give up 32% to the government.

 

[BLAZER PROPHET]

No to sales tax.

What they NEED to do is reassess the tax brackets. They're old and outdated. They don't take into account inflation at all. People who make over 36k end up giving 25% to the Feds and 7% to the state. We do not live in an economy where people making 36k can afford to give up 32% to the government.

The idea is raise more money, ie, raise taxes in a manner than uses smoke & mirrors and make it easier to raise them after that to pay for social services for peo-ple working under the table, employee unions...

 

[crowTrobot]

I currently make a living buying and selling on the internet. An enforced sales tax would effectively put me out of business.

 

[BLAZER PROPHET]

I currently make a living buying and selling on the internet. An enforced sales tax would effectively put me out of business.

I don't mean to appear ignorant, but why is that?

 

[tlongII]

I don't mean to appear ignorant, but why is that?

Too late!

 

[barfo]

I'm on board with a sales tax. Oregon's income tax is simply too high (either the highest or the 2nd highest of the 50 states, I forget which), and that's because our sales tax is so low (0%).

barfo

 

[Natebishop3]

I'm on board with a sales tax. Oregon's income tax is simply too high (either the highest or the 2nd highest of the 50 states, I forget which), and that's because our sales tax is so low (0%).

barfo

The Federal income tax is much too high as well. So, like I said, they need to reassess the brackets.

 

[JfizzleBlazer]

F that. Just say no to sales tax.

 

[BLAZER PROPHET]

Too late!

I just knew someone would ding me. Sure as shooting, it was a sheep loving Beaver fan.

 

[blue32]

No thanks to sales tax. The slight reduction in state income tax would just be "re-adjusted" to be higher eventually and then we'd be stuck with a sales tax with no way to remove it. F-That.

Once you start allowing taxes to be given to the people they just push more and more bullshit in.

They need to be responsible with their money that they get already. I mean they're already talking about a kicker going out so apparently they can't even forecast correctly. That doesn't bode well for giving them more money with a sales tax.

I mean I own a house, single, claim 4 (to even out the tax credits), and pay 560 dollars a week in taxes. That is complete horseshit. Then add the monthly property tax of 350ish, I am paying almost 2500 a month in just "taxes". What the fuck is that about.

 

[barfo]

The Federal income tax is much too high as well. So, like I said, they need to reassess the brackets.

You mean you should pay less and rich people should pay more? Why, that's redistribution! We can't have that!

barfo

 

[BLAZER PROPHET]

I'm on board with a sales tax. Oregon's income tax is simply too high (either the highest or the 2nd highest of the 50 states, I forget which), and that's because our sales tax is so low (0%).

barfo

I am not necessarily opposed to this general idea of lowering income tax and adding a sales tax. My concerns:

1) Will Oregon continue to be the tourist draw to the full extent it is now. I hear over and over that one of the reasons people visit here is the lack of a sales tax.

2) Will people continue to move here with the new double taxation?

3) What will the safeguards be so that the sales tax cannot be raised at the whim of the state legislature?

 

[barfo]

No thanks to sales tax. The slight reduction in state income tax would just be "re-adjusted" to be higher eventually and then we'd be stuck with a sales tax with no way to remove it. F-That.

So, would you be in favor of getting rid of the income or property tax and increasing the remaining tax to make up for it? If two taxes are better than three, is one tax better than two?

I mean they're already talking about a kicker going out so apparently they can't even forecast correctly.

Show me someone who can accurately forecast the economy.

barfo

 

[barfo]

I am not necessarily opposed to this general idea of lowering income tax and adding a sales tax. My concerns:

1) Will Oregon continue to be the tourist draw to the full extent it is now. I hear over and over that one of the reasons people visit here is the lack of a sales tax.

Do you decide where to vacation based on the sales tax rate?

2) Will people continue to move here with the new double taxation?

Maybe fewer poor people would move here, and more high-income people would move here. Sales tax is regressive, no doubt about it.

3) What will the safeguards be so that the sales tax cannot be raised at the whim of the state legislature?

The safeguard is that we can vote out the legislature if we don't like what they do.

barfo

 

[Natebishop3]

You mean you should pay less and rich people should pay more? Why, that's redistribution! We can't have that!

barfo

I'm saying that someone who makes 36k a year can't afford to pay 32% income tax to the Feds and state, which is what the current brackets require.

 

[BLAZER PROPHET]

In response to your answers:

1) Do you decide where to vacation based on the sales tax rate?



2) Maybe fewer poor people would move here, and more high-income people would move here. Sales tax is regressive, no doubt about it.



3) The safeguard is that we can vote out the legislature if we don't like what they do.

barfo

1) Yes, I do. I stay in Oregon more often.

2) -

3) That's a loaded answer. Oregon is no liberal that we both know that will never happen. If we opt to go down the sales tax road without better safeguards it's a deal with the devil.

 

[barfo]

I'm saying that someone who makes 36k a year can't afford to pay 32% income tax to the Feds and state, which is what the current brackets require.

So what's your plan to lower taxes on the $36K/year earner? Are you going to raise taxes on someone else (who)? Or lower spending (on what)?

barfo

 

[barfo]

In response to your answers:



1) Yes, I do. I stay in Oregon more often.

Ok. I'm not sure most people do, but maybe. It seems kind of silly though, since we have hotel taxes here, and gas taxes, and rent-a-car taxes, and those are usually the biggest expenses of people vacationing here. I guess if your idea of vacation is shopping (and cheating on your home-state taxes), then I guess you'd want to vacation here.

3) That's a loaded answer. Oregon is no liberal that we both know that will never happen. If we opt to go down the sales tax road without better safeguards it's a deal with the devil.

So? Not going down that road is also a deal with the very same liberal devil.

barfo

 

[BLAZER PROPHET]

Well, whatever. Like I said, with proper safeguards I am not opposed to the idea of lowering income tax and implementing a sales tax.

 

[Denny Crane]

Barfo,

Have you ever met a tax you didn't like?

This is a scheme to add sales tax to income tax. They might promise to lower income tax in return, but they will ramp those up over time.

 

[barfo]

Barfo,

Have you ever met a tax you didn't like?

This is a scheme to add sales tax to income tax. They might promise to lower income tax in return, but they will ramp those up over time.

Oh Denny, you misunderstand me so.

Let's reverse the situation. Would you be in favor of California eliminating their sales tax and raising their income tax by enough to collect the equivalent amount of revenue? Why or why not?

barfo

 

[JfizzleBlazer]

Why would we want a sales tax? Make adjustments to the income tax system we already have. I don't want income, sales and property tax.

If they were to drop property tax, then I'd be more open to it if the %'s are similar

 

[JfizzleBlazer]

Also, it's idiotic to bring up sales tax time and time again. Isn't it strongly opposed by voters every time it's on the ballot? Why waste time talking about and making plans for something no one wants

 

[BLAZER PROPHET]

Oh Denny, you misunderstand me so.

Let's reverse the situation. Would you be in favor of California eliminating their sales tax and raising their income tax by enough to collect the equivalent amount of revenue? Why or why not?

barfo

barfo, I wouldn't bring up the horrific mess that is California taxes. That's poor salesmanship.

 

[barfo]

Also, it's idiotic to bring up sales tax time and time again. Isn't it strongly opposed by voters every time it's on the ballot? Why waste time talking about and making plans for something no one wants

Same reason Republicans keep running for office.

barfo

 

[JfizzleBlazer]

Same reason Republicans keep running for office.

barfo

A little different because a lot of people are voting for republicans.

And what does that have to do with anything? Stupid response.

 

[barfo]

A little different because a lot of people are voting for republicans.

And what does that have to do with anything? Stupid response.

It was a joke, silly.

barfo

 

[Denny Crane]

Oh Denny, you misunderstand me so.

Let's reverse the situation. Would you be in favor of California eliminating their sales tax and raising their income tax by enough to collect the equivalent amount of revenue? Why or why not?

barfo

We do have a sales tax. A very high one. And we have a very high income tax, too. That's the future of Oregon if they allow a sales tax.

Just like the federal income tax started out as a 2% tax on only the very rich. It's blown so far out of its original intent and the government hooked on spending that it'll never be what was promised.

 

[3RA1N1AC]

NH has no sales tax OR income tax