Taxes too high?

[Nate4Prez]

"Actually, as a share of the nation's economy, Uncle Sam's take this year will be the lowest since 1950, when the Korean War was just getting under way.
And for the third straight year, American families and businesses will pay less in federal taxes than they did under former President George W. Bush, thanks to a weak economy and a growing number of tax breaks for the wealthy and poor alike.
Income tax payments this year will be nearly 13 percent lower than they were in 2008, the last full year of the Bush presidency. Corporate taxes will be lower by a third, according to projections by the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office.
The poor economy is largely to blame, with corporate profits down and unemployment up. But so is a tax code that grows each year with new deductions, credits and exemptions. The result is that families making as much as $50,000 can avoid paying federal income taxes, if they have at least two dependent children. Low-income families can actually make a profit from the income tax, and the wealthy can significantly cut their payments."

link to article

Taxed Enough Already (Tea Party) seems pretty ridiculous considering the majority of American's are paying the least amount of taxes in their entire lives. And I say majority of Amercian's because unless you were 18 in 1960 (born in 1942) they are lower than EVER.

Yet, still, it seems the majority of American's think Obama has raised taxes.

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

Did you read what you posted about the poor economy being largely to blame?

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

And Obama just kept the Bush-era tax cuts. I think its in the future, when we have to pay back the "stimulus" money where the taxes are going to have to skyrocket. that and green subsidies and subsidies for healthcare coverage.

 

[agoo]

My taxes are ok, but...

[video=youtube;Gg5SwyTvAHw]

 

[JfizzleBlazer]

My taxes still are too high. I got absolutely raped this year as I'm a single guy with no real estate or kids.

 

[Nate4Prez]

My taxes still are too high. I got absolutely raped this year as I'm a single guy with no real estate or kids.

Then you probably didn't elect to pay enough through out the year.

 

[Nate4Prez]

Did you read what you posted about the poor economy being largely to blame?

That's fine if the economy is largely to blame, I'm not praising Obama, I don't think he should have extended the Bush tax cuts.

What doesn't make any sense is the majority of American's think he has raised taxes. And the Tea Party comes out saying "Taxed Enough Already" when they are paying the least amount of taxes ever?

 

[BLAZER PROPHET]

I think taxes are way too high.

I'd make some cuts in SS and lower that tax by a minimum of 25%.

I'd eliminate the current income tax and replace it with a flat tax with no deductions or loopholes at all.

I'd add a 2 or 3% sales tax with 100% of it going directly against the national debt until it's paid off.

I'd balance the budget. Every year.

 

[JfizzleBlazer]

Then you probably didn't elect to pay enough through out the year.

Um, No. I'm getting a refund if that is what you are getting at. Doesn't change the fact I'm getting absolutely raped on what I have to give up.

 

[blazerboy30]

"Actually, as a share of the nation's economy, Uncle Sam's take this year will be the lowest since 1950, when the Korean War was just getting under way.
And for the third straight year, American families and businesses will pay less in federal taxes than they did under former President George W. Bush, thanks to a weak economy and a growing number of tax breaks for the wealthy and poor alike.
Income tax payments this year will be nearly 13 percent lower than they were in 2008, the last full year of the Bush presidency. Corporate taxes will be lower by a third, according to projections by the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office.
The poor economy is largely to blame, with corporate profits down and unemployment up. But so is a tax code that grows each year with new deductions, credits and exemptions. The result is that families making as much as $50,000 can avoid paying federal income taxes, if they have at least two dependent children. Low-income families can actually make a profit from the income tax, and the wealthy can significantly cut their payments."

link to article

Taxed Enough Already (Tea Party) seems pretty ridiculous considering the majority of American's are paying the least amount of taxes in their entire lives. And I say majority of Amercian's because unless you were 18 in 1960 (born in 1942) they are lower than EVER.

Yet, still, it seems the majority of American's think Obama has raised taxes.

50% of the population doesn't pay federal income tax. Who do you think makes up the difference in tax revenue for the half of the population that doesn't pay a dime?

 

[Nate4Prez]

50% of the population doesn't pay federal income tax. Who do you think makes up the difference in tax revenue for the half of the population that doesn't pay a dime?

I guarantee you aren't.

More proof that taxes should be raised, tax code should be reformed, and deductions should be eliminated.

 

[maxiep]

50% of the population doesn't pay federal income tax. Who do you think makes up the difference in tax revenue for the half of the population that doesn't pay a dime?

This. The people who are taxed too much are those paying for everyone else. It used to be that everyone had skin in the game. Now, it's about taxing the producers so the dependents can continue to free ride.

 

[barfo]

This. The people who are taxed too much are those paying for everyone else. It used to be that everyone had skin in the game. Now, it's about taxing the producers so the dependents can continue to free ride.

Those darn poor people. If only they'd pay taxes instead of rent, you and I could have a few more spoonfuls of caviar, or have the gold-plating on that garden gate buffed up.

It doesn't look to me like there was a time in recent history where everyone had skin in the game, although it is true that Mr. Bush increased the percentage of non-payers significantly.

barfo

 

[BLAZER PROPHET]

Those darn poor people. If only they'd pay taxes instead of rent, you and I could have a few more spoonfuls of caviar, or have the gold-plating on that garden gate buffed up.

It doesn't look to me like there was a time in recent history where everyone had skin in the game, although it is true that Mr. Bush increased the percentage of non-payers significantly.

barfo

How is this determined? When I was in college I turned in a zero tax return every year. My stepsons have. Then there were people who used Earned Income Averaging who made income but got to have a zero tax return. It used to be (and to a certain extent still is) certain types of foreign income generated a zero tax return......... Just curious how they arrive at the stats. Did the article where you got the graph break it down?

 

[barfo]

How is this determined? When I was in college I turned in a zero tax return every year. My stepsons have. Then there were people who used Earned Income Averaging who made income but got to have a zero tax return. It used to be (and to a certain extent still is) certain types of foreign income generated a zero tax return......... Just curious how they arrive at the stats. Did the article where you got the graph break it down?

Supposedly, the IRS released the data. I don't know if they said why the people who had zero tax due had zero tax due. My guess is that there would be potentially multiple reasons per person.

barfo

 

[BLAZER PROPHET]

Supposedly, the IRS released the data. I don't know if they said why the people who had zero tax due had zero tax due. My guess is that there would be potentially multiple reasons per person.

barfo

OK, thanks.

 

[maxiep]

We're reaching a tipping point where more than half of the voters will pay no Federal tax. When that happens, the majority will simply vote for the minority to pay more taxes and support their lifestyle.

I think tax rates should flatten a bit and when there's a tax increase, EVERYONE's taxes should be raised, even it's by a penny. That way, it's not the other guy paying for it. Also, the AMT needs to die; it's hitting too many middle class people.

 

[barfo]

We're reaching a tipping point where more than half of the voters will pay no Federal tax. When that happens, the majority will simply vote for the minority to pay more taxes and support their lifestyle.

Assuming that voters are both rational and selfish. Not sure there is overwhelming evidence for either proposition.

I think tax rates should flatten a bit and when there's a tax increase, EVERYONE's taxes should be raised, even it's by a penny. That way, it's not the other guy paying for it. Also, the AMT needs to die; it's hitting too many middle class people.

I would love to see the AMT die. I don't so much mind paying the tax, but the complexity is unreasonable.

It's worth mentioning in this discussion that zero federal income tax doesn't mean that people aren't paying tax. Those that work still pay payroll tax, for example.

barfo

 

[jlprk]

And Obama just kept the Bush-era tax cuts. I think its in the future, when we have to pay back the "stimulus" money where the taxes are going to have to skyrocket.

You have it reversed. In the future, companies will have to pay back stimulus loans they borrowed from the government. Those were loans to prevent capitalism from self-destructing.

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

You have it reversed. In the future, companies will have to pay back stimulus loans they borrowed from the government. Those were loans to prevent capitalism from self-destructing.

You're thinking about the bail-outs, not the stimulus.

 

[barfo]

How is this determined? When I was in college I turned in a zero tax return every year. My stepsons have. Then there were people who used Earned Income Averaging who made income but got to have a zero tax return. It used to be (and to a certain extent still is) certain types of foreign income generated a zero tax return......... Just curious how they arrive at the stats. Did the article where you got the graph break it down?

Hi, I found this related link, which has some demographic data on those who have zero or negative tax due. Not sure this is exactly the data you were looking for but it is interesting.

For me, the takeaway is that 93% of those who have no tax due make less than $20,000. As social policy, I'm perfectly ok with people who make less than $20K not paying income taxes. $20K is just not very much money.

The other 7% probably have a lot of kids. I'd personally be in favor of extra taxes on people with kids rather than tax breaks, since kids require extra government spending, but then I don't have kids and I certainly don't really expect anyone to rally behind my suggestion. I do think it is kind of stupid to use the tax code to motivate people to make babies, however. The west has long since been settled and overpopulation is a problem.

barfo

 

[Denny Crane]

Hi, I found this related link, which has some demographic data on those who have zero or negative tax due. Not sure this is exactly the data you were looking for but it is interesting.

For me, the takeaway is that 93% of those who have no tax due make less than $20,000. As social policy, I'm perfectly ok with people who make less than $20K not paying income taxes. $20K is just not very much money.

The other 7% probably have a lot of kids. I'd personally be in favor of extra taxes on people with kids rather than tax breaks, since kids require extra government spending, but then I don't have kids and I certainly don't really expect anyone to rally behind my suggestion. I do think it is kind of stupid to use the tax code to motivate people to make babies, however. The west has long since been settled and overpopulation is a problem.

barfo

If you say so. From your own link:

In addition to these non-payers, roughly 15 million individuals and families earned some income last year but not enough to be required to file a tax return. When these non-filers are added to the non-payers, they add up to 57.5 million income-earning people who will be paying no income taxes.

Even 57.5 million is not the actual number of people because one tax return often represents several people. When all of the dependents of these income-producing people are counted, roughly 120 million Americans – 40 percent of the U.S. population – are outside of the federal income tax system.

 

[Nate4Prez]

The other 7% probably have a lot of kids. I'd personally be in favor of extra taxes on people with kids rather than tax breaks, since kids require extra government spending, but then I don't have kids and I certainly don't really expect anyone to rally behind my suggestion. I do think it is kind of stupid to use the tax code to motivate people to make babies, however. The west has long since been settled and overpopulation is a problem.

barfo

I agree, but I don't think they should have to pay more taxes for having kids, but I certainly don't think there should be an incentive. A lady I work with has the same exact position, same pay, my tax refund was $1,200.00... she has three kids, her tax refund is $4,500.00 If someone chooses to have kids that's great, but I don't want my tax dollars paying for them.

 

[Denny Crane]

I agree, but I don't think they should have to pay more taxes for having kids, but I certainly don't think there should be an incentive. A lady I work with has the same exact position, same pay, my tax refund was $1,200.00... she has three kids, her tax refund is $4,500.00 If someone chooses to have kids that's great, but I don't want my tax dollars paying for them.

LOL

You're not paying $.01 for them.

You possibly still paid taxes even though you got a refund, and the same is true for her.

 

[Nate4Prez]

LOL

You're not paying $.01 for them.

You possibly still paid taxes even though you got a refund, and the same is true for her.

Where did the money come from to give her a refund? $1,000 tax credit per kid, that's $3,000 she got back, that money came from somewhere.

 

[Nate4Prez]

LOL

You're not paying $.01 for them.

You possibly still paid taxes even though you got a refund, and the same is true for her.

I know what you are saying, but if she isn't paying it in, then the rest of us are. And as a country we all need those tax dollars. I'm sick of incentives and write offs. I don't know is this is true where you are, but in Arizona you can deduct vehicle registration taxes on your State taxes. I thought we needed to pay that so we can afford to pay the maintenance on roads, build new roads, pay the DMV people, but now you are telling me I can write that off? The whole system needs to be reformed.

 

[Nate4Prez]

Also, I love how this thread started has completely derailed from what the original post was. Where are all you conservative, Tea Party, republicans, Obama-haters (not that I approve of him, for different reasons) who have been complaining since he took office that your taxes are higher, that the dems are destroying middle class America with taxes, Obama is destroying small business. Listen, you can disagree with Obama on a lot of things (foreign policy, health care reform, amnesty) but give the guy props for not raising your taxes.

 

[Denny Crane]

Where did the money come from to give her a refund? $1,000 tax credit per kid, that's $3,000 she got back, that money came from somewhere.

You make $100 per monthly paycheck with $10 withheld for taxes. over the year, you paid $120 in taxes. you do your tax return and find you owe only $100, so you get a $20 refund. The money came from YOU since you overpaid. And even though you got a refund you still paid $100 in taxes.

And the govt. got interest on the $20 you overpaid.

 

[Denny Crane]

Also, I love how this thread started has completely derailed from what the original post was. Where are all you conservative, Tea Party, republicans, Obama-haters (not that I approve of him, for different reasons) who have been complaining since he took office that your taxes are higher, that the dems are destroying middle class America with taxes, Obama is destroying small business. Listen, you can disagree with Obama on a lot of things (foreign policy, health care reform, amnesty) but give the guy props for not raising your taxes.

In your opening post, it talked about taxes as a % of the economy (GDP). Govt. has an interest in overstating GDP, so it looks like the economy is doing well. Look at the math and see what happens to taxes as a % of GDP if GDP is higher (taxes are a fixed amount, the actual cash receipts the govt. took in).

GDP is a very difficult thing to calculate properly in the first place. There are a lot of assumptions that go into a super complex economic model to arrive at the figures.

 

[Nate4Prez]

In your opening post, it talked about taxes as a % of the economy (GDP). Govt. has an interest in overstating GDP, so it looks like the economy is doing well. Look at the math and see what happens to taxes as a % of GDP if GDP is higher (taxes are a fixed amount, the actual cash receipts the govt. took in).

GDP is a very difficult thing to calculate properly in the first place. There are a lot of assumptions that go into a super complex economic model to arrive at the figures.

Stop Avoiding The Facts. Obama has not raised taxes since he took office. If the economy was better, tax as a percentage of the GDP would be higher than it is right now, but that doesn't change the fact that conservative have been spewing bull shit about Obama raising taxes for the last two years. Fox News, Republican's, Tea Party have all been saying Obama has raised their taxes. The majority of American's think Obama has raised taxes, admit that they are wrong.