Thank Denny again

[magnifier661]

We are in process of making 2 megawatt solar farms (two separate locations) on properties our family owns. I just wanted to thank Denny for his tax contributions, so our country can have "clean energy" and our family can make around 1 mil every year.

Thanks for the subsidies!

 

[BlazerCaravan]

Thank you, rich man, for blessing us with jobs! I hope you enjoy the extra money!

 

[blazerboy30]

How are you coming up with $1M per year off of 2MW of solar capacity? Even at 100% utilization, you'd have to be paid $0.06/kw-hr.

 

[magnifier661]

Thank you, rich man, for blessing us with jobs! I hope you enjoy the extra money!

It's actually a good investment. The cost of industrial solar is around 2.06 a kilowatt; so a megawatt plant is around 2,060,000. SCE will pay us 360,000 per year for the electricity to feed the grid. That is a 8 year return off investment. The advantage is the property that was appraised at 260k; will now appraise at 2.4 million. I don't know why more people aren't jumping on board?

 

[magnifier661]

How are you coming up with $1M per year off of 2MW of solar capacity? Even at 100% utilization, you'd have to be paid $0.06/kw-hr.

Oops, sorry, I meant $360k. The return is 8 years off investment. I don't know what i was thinking when I posted the OG

 

[blazerboy30]

It's actually a good investment. The cost of industrial solar is around 2.06 a kilowatt; so a megawatt plant is around 2,060,000. SCE will pay us 360,000 per year for the electricity to feed the grid. That is a 8 year return off investment. The advantage is the property that was appraised at 260k; will now appraise at 2.4 million. I don't know why more people aren't jumping on board?

Where is the property?

 

[blazerboy30]

Oops, sorry, I meant $360k. The return is 8 years off investment. I don't know what i was thinking when I posted the OG

I'm curious... Why do you think 8-year ROI is that great? That is 9% per year return. But are you including property taxes, income taxes? What do you assume for maintenance costs and employees to maintain a 2MW plant?

If those additional costs reduce your 9% yearly return to, say, 5-6% yearly return, you could do better elsewhere with no work.

 

[magnifier661]

Where is the property?

lancaster

 

[magnifier661]

I'm curious... Why do you think 8-year ROI is that great? That is 9% per year return. But are you including property taxes, income taxes? What do you assume for maintenance costs and employees to maintain a 2MW plant?

If those additional costs reduce your 9% yearly return to, say, 5-6% yearly return, you could do better elsewhere with no work.

A solar farm doesn't require as much work and the property can generate income. Building homes in those areas are still a little too expensive these days. It's cheaper just to buy used homes.

Also the federal tax credit saves us about 40% on investment; which is a huge tax credit!

 

[blazerboy30]

A solar farm doesn't require as much work and the property can generate income. Building homes in those areas are still a little too expensive these days. It's cheaper just to buy used homes.

Also the federal tax credit saves us about 40% on investment; which is a huge tax credit!

Interesting.

Is your 8-year ROI already accounting for the 40% tax credit on the initial capital?

How do you generate income on the property other than the solar?

 

[magnifier661]

Interesting.

Is your 8-year ROI already accounting for the 40% tax credit on the initial capital?

How do you generate income on the property other than the solar?

We were thinking about leasing the property for farming; but we would have to install a well. It cost around 180k. The land lease isn't much.

Here is an interesting link for you to read

http://www.dailyfinance.com/2012/09/12/solar-stats-that-will-blow-your-mind/

U.S. solar growth
The U.S. solar industry installed 742 MW of PV in the second quarter of 2012, up 45% sequentially and 116% annually. This is despite the expiration of the 1603 Treasury Grant Program, a policy that allowed solar installers to get a cash grant in lieu of a future tax credit; the industry has now installed 2.85 GW of solar.

The cost to install solar is dropping like a rock
Every quarter the solar industry takes another step toward grid parity in locations around the world, even passing it in some locations.

According to GTM Research, the cost to install a utility scale solar system has fallen 45.8% since the beginning of 2010 to $2.60 per watt.
Over the same time frame, residential solar installations have dropped 21.8% to $5.46 per watt.

 

[THE HCP]

You 2 need to get a room.

 

[BlazerCaravan]

I'm curious... Why do you think 8-year ROI is that great? That is 9% per year return. But are you including property taxes, income taxes? What do you assume for maintenance costs and employees to maintain a 2MW plant?

If those additional costs reduce your 9% yearly return to, say, 5-6% yearly return, you could do better elsewhere with no work.

Like he's actually going to do the work!

 

[Eastoff]

You 2 need to get a room.

NO! I like to watch, i mean read what they have to say.

 

[such sweet thunder]

You should be careful to look into the possibility of solar flooding the market. I looked into installing rooftop panels and the Massachusetts solar market had crashed over the past six months or so. Basically so many people installed panels that traditional power companies could buy their environmental quorum for nothing. If I had my way, we'd just increase the solar requirements -- I'd much rather pay more for energy than for flood insurance or chemo when I get lung cancer from the remaining coal plant by my house. Just something to consider.

 

[magnifier661]

Also, look at this link. It's a summary of the tax credits for solar farming...

http://www.wholesalesolar.com/federal-tax-credit.html

The Emergency Economic Stabilization Act of 2008, which was signed into law on October 1, 2008, was a boon to the renewable energy field. Not only was the 30% commercial solar investment tax credit extended through 2016, but the same tax credit was also extended to residential installations.

Under this legislation the previous $2,000 cap for residential solar installations was eliminated. As of January 1, 2009, the purchase of a residential solar electric system makes you eligible for a tax credit equal to 30% of the cost of your solar system, including installation. See full information on how you may use the tax credit.

The Renewable Electricity Production Tax Credit (PTC) has been extended through the end of the year in 2013. This production tax credit will award commercial and industrial entities 2.2¢ per kWh of power produced. These entities can also opt to take advantage of the ITC instead. As of January 3, 2013, the law removed "placed in service" deadlines and replaced them with deadlines that use the beginning of construction as a basis for determining facility eligibility.

Here is the list of government incentives.

http://www.dsireusa.org/incentives/incentive.cfm?Incentive_Code=US37F&re=1&ee=1

 

[blazerboy30]

We were thinking about leasing the property for farming; but we would have to install a well. It cost around 180k. The land lease isn't much.

Here is an interesting link for you to read

http://www.dailyfinance.com/2012/09/12/solar-stats-that-will-blow-your-mind/

I still don't see how the math is working. I'm not trying to be an ass, just trying to understand.

$2.6 / watt to build the solar infrastructure is an investment of $5.2M for 2MW. You said you will be paid $360k per year. That is 6.9% yearly return or 11-year ROI, but is ignoring the cost of the land, property taxes, maintenance, etc...

 

[blazerboy30]

You 2 need to get a room.

Yes, we know you don't understand what we're saying. Run along.

 

[magnifier661]

You should be careful to look into the possibility of solar flooding the market. I looked into installing rooftop panels and the Massachusetts solar market had crashed over the past six months or so. Basically so many people installed panels that traditional power companies could buy their environmental quorum for nothing. If I had my way, we'd just increase the solar requirements -- I'd much rather pay more for energy than for flood insurance or chemo when I get lung cancer from the remaining coal plant by my house. Just something to consider.

That is interesting, but I live in the high desert. I think we get something like 10-15" of rain per year.

 

[magnifier661]

I still don't see how the math is working. I'm not trying to be an ass, just trying to understand.

$2.6 / watt to build the solar infrastructure is an investment of $5.2M for 2MW. You said you will be paid $360k per year. That is 6.9% yearly return or 11-year ROI, but is ignoring the cost of the land, property taxes, maintenance, etc...

I believe the cost is from the discount of 30% of the entire installation.

 

[such sweet thunder]

That is interesting, but I live in the high desert. I think we get something like 10-15" of rain per year.

Ha! No I meant that the reason solar was profitable in Massachusetts was that the state required traditional power companies to buy an alotment of their power from solar farmers. This along with federal incentives created a rush in MA toward individuals putting up panels. And so many people got in the game that the solar companies could basically buy the required alotment of solar at regular power prices. So it went from a situation where you could pay off your panels in 4 years to whatever the situation is now (much longer.)

 

[blazerboy30]

I believe the cost is from the discount of 30% of the entire installation.

Cool. That gets you back to the 8-year ROI, or 9% yearly return...assuming you have $1.5M in other income to offset with that tax credit.

What about the other costs that I mentioned?

 

[magnifier661]

Ha! No I meant that the reason solar was profitable in Massachusetts was that the state required traditional power companies to buy an alotment of their power from solar farmers. This along with federal incentives created a rush in MA toward individuals putting up panels. And so many people got in the game that the solar companies could basically buy the required alotment of solar at regular power prices. So it went from a situation where you could pay off your panels in 4 years to whatever the situation is now (much longer.)

Oh that same requirement is in California. The State passed a bill that California energy companies must buy 30% of their electricity from renewable resources.

 

[magnifier661]

Cool. That gets you back to the 8-year ROI, or 9% yearly return...assuming you have $1.5M in other income to offset with that tax credit.

What about the other costs that I mentioned?

I'm sure they must be factored in; but this is a huge advantage for those making over 2 mil per year. If we invested 2 million in this program; then we just saved 600k in taxes. Its hard to find these types of incentives for those that are in this threshold.

 

[magnifier661]

Cool. That gets you back to the 8-year ROI, or 9% yearly return...assuming you have $1.5M in other income to offset with that tax credit.

What about the other costs that I mentioned?

I just saw a few links that might shed some light. I don't know if I'm reading this correctly; but it seems that there is no property tax on property that is a solar farm.

http://www.dsireusa.org/incentives/incentive.cfm?Incentive_Code=CA25F&re=0&ee=0

 

[BLAZER PROPHET]

You 2 need to get a room.

HAHAHAHAHA!!!

Hey, Mrs HCP, wake up, your husband just said something funny on purpose.