Funny That Socialist gal from NY is cool!

[donkiez]

As a most recent example, all you have to do is look at Venezuela for why I don't think it's a good idea to go down the road she and like minded people want to go down.

Our current president and citizens United are doing more to make us like Venezuela than affordable education and health care ever will.

 

[BrianFromWA]

The existence of this tread is proof to me that people are scared of this woman, otherwise trying to undermine her character and positon would not be worthy of their time or the time of the propaganda that they listen to.

Or....we're adults who think that it's cute when the kids want to bake a cake, but don't let them stick their heads into a hot oven. Yes, let's please elect someone who espouses values commonly seen in the dictatorial regimes of Cuba, Venezuela and El Salvador. To say nothing of other kleptocracies around the globe. And who does not believe in the values, mores and ethos that our country is founded upon. But, when you ignorantly (as in, being ignorant of the issues, not a pejorative to her intellect) take the same position that the Hezbollah and ISIS do:

“I am not the expert at geopolitics on this issue,” she said with a laugh. “I am a firm believer in finding a two-state solution on this issue, and I’m happy to sit down with leaders on both of these—for me, I just look at things through a human-rights lens, and I may not use the right words. I know this is a very intense issue.”
Despite her confusion, Ocasio-Cortez is no stranger to condemning Israeli actions. In a tweet last May, she said Israel was committing a “massacre” in Gaza in reference to the deaths of Palestinian rioters, most of whom were later acknowledged to be members of Hamas, along the Israeli-Gaza border on May 14

I mean, only good things can happen. To me, this isn't an example of "not letting the young generation speak." It's more "if what you say is dumb, because of inexperience, intelligence or I find it odd that the same talking point coming from a white dude wearing a rebel flag bandanna is Neo-Nazi, but when a mid-20's Latina from NYC says it, she's Amnesty International incarnate.

I also think it's odd that Hillary (whatever you think of her and her history) received a lot of slings and arrows, truthful and not, biased and not, and yet Ms. Ocasio-Cortez is supposed to be treated with (no pun intended) kid gloves?

 

[BrianFromWA]

Our current president and citizens United are doing more to make us like Venezuela than affordable education and health care ever will.

 

[donkiez]

Or....we're adults who think that it's cute when the kids want to bake a cake, but don't let them stick their heads into a hot oven. Yes, let's please elect someone who espouses values commonly seen in the dictatorial regimes of Cuba, Venezuela and El Salvador. To say nothing of other kleptocracies around the globe. And who does not believe in the values, mores and ethos that our country is founded upon. But, when you ignorantly (as in, being ignorant of the issues, not a pejorative to her intellect) take the same position that the Hezbollah and ISIS do:

I mean, only good things can happen. To me, this isn't an example of "not letting the young generation speak." It's more "if what you say is dumb, because of inexperience, intelligence or I find it odd that the same talking point coming from a white dude wearing a rebel flag bandanna is Neo-Nazi, but when a mid-20's Latina from NYC says it, she's Amnesty International incarnate.

I also think it's odd that Hillary (whatever you think of her and her history) received a lot of slings and arrows, truthful and not, biased and not, and yet Ms. Ocasio-Cortez is supposed to be treated with (no pun intended) kid gloves?

Wow looks like I really struck a cord with you. I find it interesting that anything related to socialism instantly gets labled Venezuela and Cuba by the fear mongers when social concepts are active and practiced in many successful countries including our own. Keep dismissing the younger generation, call them cute, make a joke out of them wating to bake cake like adults all you want. I just want to make sure @honkicracker reads your response so he knows that it's not only liberals who dismiss our nation's youth. Thanks for proving my point better than I could have done on my own.

 

[BrianFromWA]

​

Wow looks like I really struck a cord with you. I find it interesting that anything related to socialism instantly gets labled Venezuela and Cuba by the fear mongers when social concepts are active and practiced in many successful countries including our own. Keep dismissing the younger generation, call them cute, make a joke out of them wating to bake cake like adults all you want. I just want to make sure @honkicracker reads your response so he knows that it's not only liberals who dismiss our nation's youth. Thanks for proving my point better than I could have done on my own.

You're welcome, always happy to help.

Of course you struck a chord--did you think you were going to get away with that? For those of us who've seen the other parts of the world that aren't dictated by a belief in both American Exceptionalism and Rights Endowed By a Creator, I think you'll find that we don't want that to happen here. It's just that fewer people are listening to those with experience, because #everyonegetsavote and #everyone'sopinionisvalid. Disagree.

I don't dismiss Our Nation's Youth (TM) out of hand. I dismiss those who think that a) they've found something awesome that all of us old fuddy-duddies didn't know about and/or can't comprehend, and b) don't have the life experience (a.k.a., getting hit in the face with reality, or seeing the joys of winning) to understand the macro level of what they want. It doesn't matter if you're Bernie Sanders (look up those threads, and tell me if I'm dismissing "youth" or dismissing "ideas that are bad") or Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez or Jerry Brown or Lenin or Che or anyone in between.

I didn't bring up China because @riverman is way better at that than I am, but I'd ask what he thinks of the teachings of Mao and their impact on society. Bringing up the Cuba and Venezula experiments, comrade, are not fear-mongering postures. They are deliberate attempts to identify the future--if for some magical reason the socialist fantasy comes to pass here--to those who think that a rosy vision of the future lies behind every piece of our lives that we give further away to a benevolent government power. You could easily bring up Greece, England, France, Sweden...

 

[donkiez]

You're welcome, always happy to help.

Of course you struck a chord--did you think you were going to get away with that? For those of us who've seen the other parts of the world that aren't dictated by a belief in both American Exceptionalism and Rights Endowed By a Creator, I think you'll find that we don't want that to happen here. It's just that fewer people are listening to those with experience, because #everyonegetsavote and #everyone'sopinionisvalid. Disagree.

I don't dismiss Our Nation's Youth (TM) out of hand. I dismiss those who think that a) they've found something awesome that all of us old fuddy-duddies didn't know about and/or can't comprehend, and b) don't have the life experience (a.k.a., getting hit in the face with reality, or seeing the joys of winning) to understand the macro level of what they want. It doesn't matter if you're Bernie Sanders (look up those threads, and tell me if I'm dismissing "youth" or dismissing "ideas that are bad") or Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez or Jerry Brown or Lenin or Che or anyone in between.

I didn't bring up China because @riverman is way better at that than I am, but I'd ask what he thinks of the teachings of Mao and their impact on society. Bringing up the Cuba and Venezula experiments, comrade, are not fear-mongering postures. They are deliberate attempts to identify the future--if for some magical reason the socialist fantasy comes to pass here--to those who think that a rosy vision of the future lies behind every piece of our lives that we give further away to a benevolent government power. You could easily bring up Greece, England, France, Sweden...

Getting away with what? Laughing at those who claim to have all the truth? Thank you for your service but no thank you for your condescending attitude and wierd presumptions about my life experience in a effort to dismiss me also. Surprise but I too have been to many places around the world, I've lived in Japan and New Zealand and visited much of Europe, Colombia, Cuba (yes you read that right) and most recently Vietnam and also China. Just got back from Vietnam and China actually, which is why I haven't been active here lately. Spending time with the people there, talking to them and observing their lives makes it obvious where socialism works and doenst work same with Cuba. But instead of discussing ideas you would rather try and correlate a young relatively obscure politician with Lenin. What a joke. Chill you won't have to pay for anyone's education or healthcare anytime soon, our dear leader will make sure of that.

 

[BrianFromWA]

Getting away with what? Laughing at those who claim to have all the truth? Thank you for your service but no thank you for your condescending attitude and wierd presumptions about my life experience in a effort to dismiss me also. Surprise but I too have been to many places around the world, I've lived in Japan and New Zealand and visited much of Europe, Colombia, Cuba (yes you read that right) and most recently Vietnam and also China. Just got back from Vietnam and China actually, which is why I haven't been active here lately. Spending time with the people there, talking to them and observing their lives makes it obvious where socialism works and doenst work same with Cuba. But instead of discussing ideas you would rather try and correlate a young relatively obscure politician with Lenin. What a joke. Chill you won't have to pay for anyone's education or healthcare anytime soon, our dear leader will make sure of that.

I've paid for education and health since I was 16. Except that I'm not paying for health care. I'm paying someone's insurance premiums, which are not regulated by free market. The care isn't better, no matter how much the government chooses to take. The schooling doesn't seem to be getting better, no matter how much the government chooses to take. Where have I heard that before?
If you took my tone as condescending it says more about your insecurities than me--I didn't say a word about you. But, if you have anything close to a success story from socialism from your travels, bring it. I don't. If you can anecdotally bring up conversations with farmers, policemen, tea shop workers, prisoners, governors, health care providers, Ministers of Women's Affairs, orphanage workers, Peace Corps and USAID personnel and the impoverished on 5 continents, then I'll share mine. Then again, I've never been to New Zealand, so you have me there.
What doesn't fly with me is the ad hominem stuff. You're better than that.

 

[santeesioux]

You're welcome, always happy to help.

Of course you struck a chord--did you think you were going to get away with that? For those of us who've seen the other parts of the world that aren't dictated by a belief in both American Exceptionalism and Rights Endowed By a Creator, I think you'll find that we don't want that to happen here. It's just that fewer people are listening to those with experience, because #everyonegetsavote and #everyone'sopinionisvalid. Disagree.

I don't dismiss Our Nation's Youth (TM) out of hand. I dismiss those who think that a) they've found something awesome that all of us old fuddy-duddies didn't know about and/or can't comprehend, and b) don't have the life experience (a.k.a., getting hit in the face with reality, or seeing the joys of winning) to understand the macro level of what they want. It doesn't matter if you're Bernie Sanders (look up those threads, and tell me if I'm dismissing "youth" or dismissing "ideas that are bad") or Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez or Jerry Brown or Lenin or Che or anyone in between.

I didn't bring up China because @riverman is way better at that than I am, but I'd ask what he thinks of the teachings of Mao and their impact on society. Bringing up the Cuba and Venezula experiments, comrade, are not fear-mongering postures. They are deliberate attempts to identify the future--if for some magical reason the socialist fantasy comes to pass here--to those who think that a rosy vision of the future lies behind every piece of our lives that we give further away to a benevolent government power. You could easily bring up Greece, England, France, Sweden...

It's interesting that the people the most against those ideologies are the ones that were forced to live under them for decades.

 

[H.C.]

​

Wow looks like I really struck a cord with you. I find it interesting that anything related to socialism instantly gets labled Venezuela and Cuba by the fear mongers when social concepts are active and practiced in many successful countries including our own. Keep dismissing the younger generation, call them cute, make a joke out of them wating to bake cake like adults all you want. I just want to make sure @honkicracker reads your response so he knows that it's not only liberals who dismiss our nation's youth. Thanks for proving my point better than I could have done on my own.

Let me be very clear and state again.
Both parties dismiss the nations youth because they don't have a clue how to get their vote.
As the typical strat of, attacking the other party. Doesn't work as the nations youth tunes that out far more than previous generations.

 

[barfo]

You're welcome, always happy to help.

Of course you struck a chord--did you think you were going to get away with that? For those of us who've seen the other parts of the world that aren't dictated by a belief in both American Exceptionalism and Rights Endowed By a Creator, I think you'll find that we don't want that to happen here. It's just that fewer people are listening to those with experience, because #everyonegetsavote and #everyone'sopinionisvalid. Disagree.

I don't dismiss Our Nation's Youth (TM) out of hand. I dismiss those who think that a) they've found something awesome that all of us old fuddy-duddies didn't know about and/or can't comprehend, and b) don't have the life experience (a.k.a., getting hit in the face with reality, or seeing the joys of winning) to understand the macro level of what they want. It doesn't matter if you're Bernie Sanders (look up those threads, and tell me if I'm dismissing "youth" or dismissing "ideas that are bad") or Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez or Jerry Brown or Lenin or Che or anyone in between.

I didn't bring up China because @riverman is way better at that than I am, but I'd ask what he thinks of the teachings of Mao and their impact on society. Bringing up the Cuba and Venezula experiments, comrade, are not fear-mongering postures. They are deliberate attempts to identify the future--if for some magical reason the socialist fantasy comes to pass here--to those who think that a rosy vision of the future lies behind every piece of our lives that we give further away to a benevolent government power. You could easily bring up Greece, England, France, Sweden...

I guess if you think the USA is perfect in every way, and everywhere else is an utter shithole, then your position makes sense.

Not my experience, but I imagine we travel in different circles.

I will point out that Jerry Brown has been in charge of roughly 15% of the USA, economically, for the past 8 years and he doesn't seem to have turned it into either Cuba or Venezuela. Or even (horrors!) Sweden.

barfo

 

[BrianFromWA]

I guess if you think the USA is perfect in every way, and everywhere else is an utter shithole, then your position makes sense.

Not my experience, but I imagine we travel in different circles.

I will point out that Jerry Brown has been in charge of roughly 15% of the USA, economically, for the past 8 years and he doesn't seem to have turned it into either Cuba or Venezuela. Or even (horrors!) Sweden.

barfo

I think the US is as good as it's ever been in terms of fundamental philosophy of living and governance. Execution is poor because man is inherently evil, but again, we're riled up because our leader tweets too much, not because he's killed 20M personnel and sent more to the Gulag. Or started a two-front war of aggression. Or bankrupted the treasury to line his pockets. Or eliminated the intelligentsia due to being threats. Or shot dissidents out-of-hand after witnessing them performing torture on all of their family members. Or...

We get whiffs of conspiracy theories of things like "Vince Foster got suicided". But in other places I have literally seen contract hits take out friends of mine because they were becoming too powerful as a voice against the status quo (Taliban-related). I have literally seen schools bombed because people didn't like girls learning to read. I have literally done prison ministry inside a Guatemalan prison and have some level of what "Human Rights" are there.

Are we perfect in every way? Nope. Is our style more conducive to a citizen living freely in pursuit of happiness that about anywhere else I've ever been or read about? Yes. And if someone has other life experiences that show a utopian place (I don't think that even you, barfo, would say that CA is being run efficiently, properly or sustainably) I'm happy to hear them. Goodness knows I want a better world for my children. I just am not as naïve as Bernie or Alexandria nor as forgiving of Castro/Che/Stalin/HugoChavez as many are, in part because I am afflicted with compassion for the less fortunate.

 

[Chris Craig]

You're welcome, always happy to help.

Of course you struck a chord--did you think you were going to get away with that? For those of us who've seen the other parts of the world that aren't dictated by a belief in both American Exceptionalism and Rights Endowed By a Creator, I think you'll find that we don't want that to happen here. It's just that fewer people are listening to those with experience, because #everyonegetsavote and #everyone'sopinionisvalid. Disagree.

I don't dismiss Our Nation's Youth (TM) out of hand. I dismiss those who think that a) they've found something awesome that all of us old fuddy-duddies didn't know about and/or can't comprehend, and b) don't have the life experience (a.k.a., getting hit in the face with reality, or seeing the joys of winning) to understand the macro level of what they want. It doesn't matter if you're Bernie Sanders (look up those threads, and tell me if I'm dismissing "youth" or dismissing "ideas that are bad") or Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez or Jerry Brown or Lenin or Che or anyone in between.

I didn't bring up China because @riverman is way better at that than I am, but I'd ask what he thinks of the teachings of Mao and their impact on society. Bringing up the Cuba and Venezula experiments, comrade, are not fear-mongering postures. They are deliberate attempts to identify the future--if for some magical reason the socialist fantasy comes to pass here--to those who think that a rosy vision of the future lies behind every piece of our lives that we give further away to a benevolent government power. You could easily bring up Greece, England, France, Sweden...

I don't see a Rosy future

 

[barfo]

I think the US is as good as it's ever been in terms of fundamental philosophy of living and governance. Execution is poor because man is inherently evil, but again, we're riled up because our leader tweets too much, not because he's killed 20M personnel and sent more to the Gulag. Or started a two-front war of aggression. Or bankrupted the treasury to line his pockets. Or eliminated the intelligentsia due to being threats. Or shot dissidents out-of-hand after witnessing them performing torture on all of their family members. Or...

We get whiffs of conspiracy theories of things like "Vince Foster got suicided". But in other places I have literally seen contract hits take out friends of mine because they were becoming too powerful as a voice against the status quo (Taliban-related). I have literally seen schools bombed because people didn't like girls learning to read. I have literally done prison ministry inside a Guatemalan prison and have some level of what "Human Rights" are there.

Are we perfect in every way? Nope. Is our style more conducive to a citizen living freely in pursuit of happiness that about anywhere else I've ever been or read about? Yes. And if someone has other life experiences that show a utopian place (I don't think that even you, barfo, would say that CA is being run efficiently, properly or sustainably) I'm happy to hear them. Goodness knows I want a better world for my children. I just am not as naïve as Bernie or Alexandria nor as forgiving of Castro/Che/Stalin/HugoChavez as many are, in part because I am afflicted with compassion for the less fortunate.

Sure, CA has problems - every state has problems of one sort or another. I don't think it's on par with Venezuela, however. Nor is the other CA (Canada) on par with Venezuela.

You say you have compassion for the less fortunate, and I believe you truly do, but insisting that government should do as little as possible for the less fortunate isn't, in my opinion, the best possible approach. There are quite a few quite nice countries in the world that practice a bit more socialism than we do. I don't think socialism is like being pregnant - you can be a bit socialist.

barfo

 

[Chris Craig]

She is really vibrant. We need more of her kind running. I really appreciated her insight into why our current unemployment rate is down so low. More people are working two jobs.

Your sarcasm needs work

 

[bodyman5000 and 1]

This young lady may be a complete moron. I don't even care if she is, there's plenty of morons to go around on both sides....

https://www.yahoo.com/news/georgia-republican-faces-calls-resign-164612508.html

 

[dviss1]

This young lady may be a complete moron. I don't even care if she is, there's plenty of morons to go around on both sides....

https://www.yahoo.com/news/georgia-republican-faces-calls-resign-164612508.html

Only she's not. She's highly intelligent.

 

[bodyman5000 and 1]

Only she's not. She's highly intelligent.

How in the hell would you know?

 

[dviss1]

How in the hell would you know?

Because I do what an informed citizen does, research the MFs representing us.

Had you done this, you wouldn't be asking such a finger in the chest question.

Slow the fuck up and Wikipedia...

 

[bodyman5000 and 1]

A. The woman doesn't represent ME in the least.

B. If you haven't interacted with her personally you have no basis to state that she isn't a moron. The guy in the story I linked could score off the charts on an IQ test (highly doubtful) and I will still consider him a moron.

If you think my using the term moron (I also said MAY be) is unacceptable here because she is a capable learner with an impressive education that's your choice.
I've followed her somewhat on another forum and youtube and was quite aware that her academics are impressive. No need to wikipedia her.

If being brilliant in one area makes you off limits for people to question your intelligence I suggest you go back and apologize to @MarAzul for the spelling accusation from the other night.

We've all seen the boat he built himself.

 

[BrianFromWA]

I don't have any idea of her intelligence or moron-ity, other than she's a college grad. But her platform:

abolishing ICE, criminal justice reform, tuition-free college and universal healthcare. "Our campaign was focused on just a laser-focused message of economic, social and racial dignity for working-class Americans, especially those in Queens and the Bronx."

is straight out of the Bernie playbook, which makes sense because she worked for him in '16. I just don't think that those 4 things, which sound fun in a vacuum, do what she and Bernie think they do.

Yes, Criminal Justice must be reformed. I'm positive we differ on how we'd reform it.
Abolishing ICE, whose sworn mission is "preventing terrorism, investigating illegal movement of people and goods, and immigration enforcement," is DOA. There's no way....no way...that customs will go away. Personally I think it's good to have an enforcement method for terrorism and illegal entry. But maybe the people of the Bronx think differently. That's their prerogative.
Tuition-Free college seems nice until you ask "what for?" We already have tuition-free high school, and 30% of kids don't finish while others do with educations that don't prepare them for an undergraduate degree. Community Colleges have very low tuitions (and waivers for low-income, veteran, disabled, and a host of other things) and have relatively low usage rates. Personally, I would think that if you're getting federal help (loan, grant, scholarship, etc) then the major should be in one that the government needs. If you want to bet on yourself, do so. If not, Science, Tech, Engineering, Medicine, trades...
Universal Healthcare--in what form? EVeryone pays a percentage of their paycheck to a pool and we all go stand in line for substandard government care? Or does the government farm out their care to the lowest bidder? Or does the government cut costs by ensuring that they don't give out "elective" care, like lung transplants for smokers or surgeries on disabled children? Who here has experienced the government universal healthcare for all veterans and have a positive experience? Yet we think it'll be better if we bump it 2 orders of magnitude? What's the driver for good care?

 

[BrianFromWA]

We've all seen the boat he built himself.

Well, to be fair, I haven't had the pleasure of seeing him make it. For all I know it was dropped in all its beauty and splendor bodily from heaven at the marina in Bandon. I'm just trusting Marazul's word and hopefully un-staged photos on it.

 

[BrianFromWA]

To the point at hand, though, if Ms. Ocasio's constituency feels like she is representing them and their views, then she absolutely should have a seat in Congress representing them. Should she propose a bill consistent with their values, I would hope that my representatives represent me.

 

[DaLincolnJones]

A. The woman doesn't represent ME in the least.

B. If you haven't interacted with her personally you have no basis to state that she isn't a moron. The guy in the story I linked could score off the charts on an IQ test (highly doubtful) and I will still consider him a moron.

If you think my using the term moron (I also said MAY be) is unacceptable here because she is a capable learner with an impressive education that's your choice.
I've followed her somewhat on another forum and youtube and was quite aware that her academics are impressive. No need to wikipedia her.

If being brilliant in one area makes you off limits for people to question your intelligence I suggest you go back and apologize to @MarAzul for the spelling accusation from the other night.

We've all seen the boat he built himself.

Meh, she has an education..a BA Boston U..Hell, I know a lot of educated idiots.

Here is a little fun for you. https://infotainworld.com/10-most-evil-genius-people/

 

[Shaboid]

 

[MarAzul]

Your sarcasm needs work

Oh, I don't know it was sarcasm. I thought it was pretty damn funny.

 

[Chris Craig]

Oh, I don't know it was sarcasm. I thought it was pretty damn funny.

You have a strange to say the least sense of humor

 

[MarAzul]

A. The woman doesn't represent ME in the least.

B. If you haven't interacted with her personally you have no basis to state that she isn't a moron. The guy in the story I linked could score off the charts on an IQ test (highly doubtful) and I will still consider him a moron.

If you think my using the term moron (I also said MAY be) is unacceptable here because she is a capable learner with an impressive education that's your choice.
I've followed her somewhat on another forum and youtube and was quite aware that her academics are impressive. No need to wikipedia her.

If being brilliant in one area makes you off limits for people to question your intelligence I suggest you go back and apologize to @MarAzul for the spelling accusation from the other night.

We've all seen the boat he built himself.

Well, to be fair, I haven't had the pleasure of seeing him make it. For all I know it was dropped in all its beauty and splendor bodily from heaven at the marina in Bandon. I'm just trusting Marazul's word and hopefully un-staged photos on it.

I will readily admit, I think a person should maximize their assest, not worry about their weakness. It is always easier to hire help in what you are weak on. Most of the time it is very difficult to hire help with what you are good at doing. Case in point! I find there is no end to the help readily, even eagerly given to correct my spelling. @riverman even guaranteed results once. But no one ever offers help with Naval Architecture or Data Base Systems design.

 

[BrianFromWA]

I will readily admit, I think a person should maximize their assest, not worry about their weakness. It is always easier to hire help in what you are weak on. Most of the time it is very difficult to hire help with what you are good at doing. Case in point! I find there is no end to the help readily, even eagerly given to correct my spelling. @riverman even guaranteed results once. But no one ever offers help with Naval Architecture or Data Base Systems design.

My buoyancy table knowledge is limited to the submarine polygon and, because Mrs. FromWA asked last week about it, cruise ship design. E.g., why when you place the best cabins at the highest point of the ship you can't have marble countertops.

 

[bodyman5000 and 1]

I will readily admit, I think a person should maximize their assest, not worry about their weakness. It is always easier to hire help in what you are weak on. Most of the time it is very difficult to hire help with what you are good at doing. Case in point! I find there is no end to the help readily, even eagerly given to correct my spelling. @riverman even guaranteed results once. But no one ever offers help with Naval Architecture or Data Base Systems design.

Reminds me of reading that Einstein didn't remember his own phone number. If true I'M SMARTER THAN EINSTEIN WAS!!!!!

 

[MarAzul]

My buoyancy table knowledge is limited to the submarine polygon and, because Mrs. FromWA asked last week about it, cruise ship design. E.g., why when you place the best cabins at the highest point of the ship you can't have marble countertops.

Ha! May I just say, because it is not a good idea.
I hate to type out all the detail of Vertical Center of gravity or VCG explanations. The calculations are even more mind numbing.

Those Cruise Ships look damn scary to me! A Carrier with a flight deck that high is fine, I know there are freeking tons of bomb stowed 40' feet below the WL.