That stupid switching scheme on Dirk (1 Viewer)

[Orion Bailey]

I wonder if you even watched the first game they played in Portland....

I did, but that was a while back and like I said, Id have go check tape..

I wonder if you read the posts through and through?

 

[B-Roy]

But then I started getting sick rereading the same dribble of hate without a mention of what he could/should be doing.

To post an observation of what he did, a change, is not providing a solution or an alternative... it is merely noting that Stott's changed things up. I think you missed the point of my post.

Are you freaking kidding me? The answer is to not switch, hence, us getting back into the game when they finally decided to stop switching in the 4th quarter. I thought the obvious undertone was implied by most of the posts here. The fact that Stotts FINALLY stopped switching after 7 quarters of playing against the Mavericks is an indictment of his defensive schemes against the Mavericks. It shouldn't have taken him 7 quarters to realize his defensive scheme was completely flawed.

 

[VanillaGorilla]

I warned you guys in the game thread before tip off this was going to KILL US.

My theory is Stotts just banks on the fact MAYBE Dirk will have an off day against us

Good job warning us of something we all knew was going to happen, since it's been happening for years.

 

[B-Roy]

I did, but that was a while back and like I said, Id have go check tape..

I wonder if you read the posts through and through?

Then you clearly aren't responding in the context of this thread.

 

[Orion Bailey]

Are you freaking kidding me? The answer is to not switch, hence, us getting back into the game when they finally decided to stop switching in the 4th quarter. I thought the obvious undertone was implied by most of the posts here. The fact that Stotts FINALLY stopped switching after 7 quarters of playing against the Mavericks is an indictment of his defensive schemes against the Mavericks. It shouldn't have taken him 7 quarters to realize his defensive scheme was completely flawed.

Then you clearly aren't responding in the context of this thread.

OMG. I thought the answer to not switch was implied too, but we didn't get BACK into that Dallas game. We had the lead and lost it. My point is... How to stop the switch...
Maybe I wasn't clear and that's my error. Yes... dont switch.. I thought that was the obvious too. But how to not switch and still be successful;? I didnt see that...

Play it out. Ill play it out this evening when I get home and have more time to explain myself.

My point is, its easy to sit here and berate and say things need to be fixed.. but HOW.. Yes.. Again its easy to SAY dont switch... but line it out.. what happens then? I dont think we are fouling these thoughts out to completion and if we did I think we would hit walls the same Stott's has as to a VIABLE solution. To not switch, doesnt always work and I will explain why this evening.

 

[illmatic99]

Sigh...

http://writing-skills.com/five-annoying-ways-use-ellipsis

 

[Orion Bailey]

Perfect. I got my desired result.....................

They are commonly used to show a pause in speech it it were a verbal format and not a textual one...those who are annoyed, probably don't understand that. But being such an expert of message boards, I would think most here would know.

Dude.. everyone has nitche's, quirks... whatever... but keep nitpicking and I will continue to blast those that blast without any EXPLAINED, VIABLE solutions.

 

[HomerLovesKoolAid]

I agree with Orion about not bitching unless you can offer up a solution.
So, here's mine and it's hardly original, since most great defensive teams like SA do it. It's not rocket surgery.

Our failure comes from lack of intuition/recognition on the part of our players as individuals and as a unit of team defense.
If Dallas sets a screen and Tony Parker ends up on Dirk, would the Spurs stand there and let Dirk back him down? Hell no, they would either hard double immediately or bluff that, which they are really good at, making Dirk make a decision fast, probably giving the ball up, and the critical part is the rest of the team busts their ass to rotate for damage control.

We haven't seen this too much from the Blazers. It only takes one unmotivated or clueless teammate to fuck it up.

 

[B-Roy]

OMG. I thought the answer to not switch was implied too, but we didn't get BACK into that Dallas game. We had the lead and lost it. My point is... How to stop the switch...
Maybe I wasn't clear and that's my error. Yes... dont switch.. I thought that was the obvious too. But how to not switch and still be successful;? I didnt see that...

They started jumping the ball handler and having Aminu recover back on Dirk, which he did well during the 4th. That's how we cut a double digit deficit and had a chance to win the game (which we should have won). Aminu had a couple of brain farts in OT, but the inherent strategy worked.

In the first game, Blazers had a double digit lead in the 4th and the Mavs were able to come back by having Dirk abuse Lillard in the post. Stotts never adjusted that game and that's why we lost.

 

[Orion Bailey]

How's that any different from what you do on this forum? I don't think you have any grasp of this place and what a fan message board is. If we all had solutions to every team problem, we wouldn't be here in front of computer screens.

So because your a fan, its okay to wipe reasoning off the table? I didnt say we have the slolutions, but how about at least trying to think of something? It might help you understand Stott's position?

I understand full well how a message board works. Dont use it as an excuse to not think for ourselves... come on...

IM a member of the forum so I can just bitch and thats what forums are for and ... blah blah blah...

Forums are just that... a forum. What is a forum?


Full Definition of forum
plural forums also fo·ra court

• 3a : a public meeting or lecture involving audience discussionb : a program (as on radio or television) involving discussion of a problem usually by several authorities.

Notice it says usually by authorities?

If you prefer to be that nonsensical fan led by rage and emotion great. I know I can get there myself.. but I don't pride myself in it. I pride myself in trying to maintain a level head regardless of wins or losses.

Forums are for discussions... not bitch fests....


oops.... I used too many ellipses again.....sigh...

 

[Orion Bailey]

I agree with Orion about not bitching unless you can offer up a solution.
So, here's mine and it's hardly original, since most great defensive teams like SA do it. It's not rocket surgery.

Our failure comes from lack of intuition/recognition on the part of our players as individuals and as a unit of team defense.
If Dallas sets a screen and Tony Parker ends up on Dirk, would the Spurs stand there and let Dirk back him down? Hell no, they would either hard double immediately or bluff that, which they are really good at, making Dirk make a decision fast, probably giving the ball up, and the critical part is the rest of the team busts their ass to rotate for damage control.

We haven't seen this too much from the Blazers. It only takes one unmotivated or clueless teammate to fuck it up.

They started jumping the ball handler and having Aminu recover back on Dirk, which he did well during the 4th. That's how we cut a double digit deficit and had a chance to win the game (which we should have won). Aminu had a couple of brain farts in OT, but the inherent strategy worked.

In the first game, Blazers had a double digit lead in the 4th and the Mavs were able to come back by having Dirk abuse Lillard in the post. Stotts never adjusted that game and that's why we lost.

This is it in a nutshell...

This is what I was looking for.

But I now want to take it a step further. Aminu is a solid defender overall, but I dont think would be the answer on Dirk long term. It worked in short duration, but by overtime seemed to fade ( Dirk couldnt miss either). I think this will be exposed as well in a full game setting, so what next?
You guys already mentioned that Aminu brainfarted in the OT... was it a brainfart or more of him being normal again?

 

[B-Roy]

This is it in a nutshell...

This is what I was looking for.

But I now want to take it a step further. Aminu is a solid defender overall, but I dont think would be the answer on Dirk long term. It worked in short duration, but by overtime seemed to fade ( Dirk couldnt miss either). I think this will be exposed as well in a full game setting, so what next?
You guys already mentioned that Aminu brainfarted in the OT... was it a brainfart or more of him being normal again?

It was Aminu forgetting to run back to Dirk.

 

[blue9]

For Aminu, a brain fart IS normal.

 

[Orion Bailey]

I will add that I bitched aboutDame in the game thread this morning. But I offered up a solution.

Couldnt stand watching him chuck, but the obvious solution is to drive to the hoop and get a higher percentage 2pt shot or draw the foul. I think every coach in the nba and blazers fan saw that as the obvious, "Should have done this" option. I didnt care for the answers Stotts had when he was asked about the chuck at the end.

 

[Orion Bailey]

It was Aminu forgetting to run back to Dirk.

And if Aminu had run back, do we think Dirk would not have been able to pass over him?
I dont disagree, trying to get to the bottom of it for a solid solution so I dont have to watch this again on Wednesday!

 

[Orion Bailey]

I agree with Orion about not bitching unless you can offer up a solution.
So, here's mine and it's hardly original, since most great defensive teams like SA do it. It's not rocket surgery.

Our failure comes from lack of intuition/recognition on the part of our players as individuals and as a unit of team defense.
If Dallas sets a screen and Tony Parker ends up on Dirk, would the Spurs stand there and let Dirk back him down? Hell no, they would either hard double immediately or bluff that, which they are really good at, making Dirk make a decision fast, probably giving the ball up, and the critical part is the rest of the team busts their ass to rotate for damage control.

We haven't seen this too much from the Blazers. It only takes one unmotivated or clueless teammate to fuck it up.

I want to make one other thing clear too. I am not really trying to call anyone out in particular, just noting and making a point to show that we are often run by the negativity train around here, but history proves that when your positive, more positive things happen. Whether it be in positive conversations, results, whatever.

The more negative you are, the more negativity will surround you.

sometimes its tough to stay positive in the face of failure, but those who succeed learn how because EVERYONE fails at some point.

 

[Tunchi]

Yet, when you're wrong, you never admit it. It makes the told you so's mean nothing.

I do admit it. Wait till we get smacked in the 1st round. I'll be saying I told you so then..

 

[B-Roy]

And if Aminu had run back, do we think Dirk would not have been able to pass over him?
I dont disagree, trying to get to the bottom of it for a solid solution so I dont have to watch this again on Wednesday!

Dirk is not a dribble drive threat anymore. He's purely a shooter, albeit a very good one. That's why it's so frustrating conceding the switch because you're just asking Dirk to shoot over chairs.

 

[Orion Bailey]

Dirk is not a dribble drive threat anymore. He's purely a shooter, albeit a very good one. That's why it's so frustrating conceding the switch because you're just asking Dirk to shoot over chairs.

Right. Kinda my point to the question. SO if AMinu gets back, What next? Dirk is still a good passer and towers over Aminu. I think he could make the pass pretty easily to the open man. Even though there isnt a double, when crossing defenders, there is a moment where its as if your getting double teamed. The other guy can spot up, dash to the hoop, etc. I think Dirk is smart enough to make that next play if we had been more consistent and had shut him down.

Sometimes its like Chess. You need to look 4-5 moves down the field in order to determine which one is the right next move, and if you are foggy down the road, then the right move now is unclear. I think Stotts is in this position right now, ever more so with Leonard going down. I dont think he is able to visualize alot of things playing out because of Leonard messing things up with the rotation, but more importantly, limited go to guys to rely on to make those changes sustainable.
To me this isnt a knock on Stott's, its lack of veteranship stable play. until we show more signs of leveling off as a core, I think he will continue to have unclear vision about what the end result will be if/when he changes things. This uncertainty tells him to continue doing what he is doing to see if they can improve first, before making too many changes.

 

[BonesJones]

Still not as bad as killing 13 seconds and shooting a fadeaway three at the end of regulation. That was by design. Not the first time Stotts has called for that either.

We switch on everything, as we should.
The problem isn't with the occasional mismatches, it's when the rotations are too mellow and soft. When you switch on a player you can guard him or look like you're guarding him, that's the difference between us playing strong defense or weak defense

I didnt quote most, and maybe missed someone post a solution, but this...

This is what frustrates me around here. Neither of you provided an alternative... an answer....

It maybe indeed be a problem, but unless you have an answer, maybe give Stotts a bit of slack that he may not have the answer yet either, oor maybe his answer was goign to be Leonard on him out in the perimeter because Dirk is slow. Many things you gfuys dont know and unless your goingto follow these up with a solution... your just wasting your breath and feeding the negativity that might very well be invalid...

This thread sucks....
Not one solution... just a bunch of bitching from wannabe coaches complaining....

I did read beyond the first post. Got half way through. If you notice I quoted two posts, so I had to have read past the first post...

But then I started getting sick rereading the same dribble of hate without a mention of what he could/should be doing.

To post an observation of what he did, a change, is not providing a solution or an alternative... it is merely noting that Stott's changed things up. I think you missed the point of my post.

It wasn't that we inaccurately reported what Stott's did. Its that we report with an obvious air of negativity while not providing anything positive to feed off of.

This happens waaaayyy too often around here and I am always reminded of a scene from my favorite show ever... West Wing

"Don't come to me with a problem if you don't have a solution... don't come to me with half a thing... if your smart enough to observe a problem then start working on the answer... don't just stop and bitch...."

There's many ways to guard the pick n roll other than switching. He should've tried one of the many different ways instead of being lazy and letting his team switch and get murdered over and over again. I would've put Amimu on him and hedged, Aminu is easily quick enough to recover to Dirk or steal the pass. If not, Dirk has 6'9 running at him to contest rather then him being able to take his time before shooting over guys that are 6'3/6'4... It's a simple concept but Stotts hates hedging screens.

 

[BonesJones]

And hell, we should double and rotate in the low post. One guy doubles, and the other 3 rotate to ball side, leaving the corner skip open. Since the low post player is doubled, that's a hard pass to complete and will need some lost to get over the trap, allowing the defense to recover to their assignment (possibly even picking off a bad pass and turning it into an easy 2 at the other end). If somehow one of our guys gets lost in the scramble, we can switch or redouble..

 

[Orion Bailey]

There's many ways to guard the pick n roll other than switching. He should've tried one of the many different ways instead of being lazy and letting his team switch and get murdered over and over again. I would've put Amimu on him and hedged, Aminu is easily quick enough to recover to Dirk or steal the pass. If not, Dirk has 6'9 running at him to contest rather then him being able to take his time before shooting over guys that are 6'3/6'4... It's a simple concept but Stotts hates hedging screens.

I hear ya, and I think we started doing that for the most part. What im really really trying to get at is this though...
so Aminu does this, but then Dirk figures it out and starts to make the pass in the middle of the play. IF the other offensive player cuts to the rim. before the hedging starts, Im in full confidence Dirk will make the successful pass and then what do we do?

I think Stotts is still limited in his options and is finding out through trial and error what is and isnt working with this team.
Why does it take so long for him to see that the switch isnt working? Maybe it isnt, but the solutiuon isnt coming when he thinks about it 4-5 plays down the road. So since he knows the end result is still going to be negative. He continues with what we are doing to try to figure that out, or until a viable, sustainable solution is found.

Now I will admit, there is one major flaw with my thought.
Nothing remains the same, so I dont think you can always wait until the game is clear 4-5 plays down the line. Sometimes you have to take chances and change things even if they turn out for the worse... you can always go back.
I do beleive this is part of the issue though, is limited options to finalize the plays in Stott's head.

 

[BonesJones]

I hear ya, and I think we started doing that for the most part. What im really really trying to get at is this though...
so Aminu does this, but then Dirk figures it out and starts to make the pass in the middle of the play. IF the other offensive player cuts to the rim. before the hedging starts, Im in full confidence Dirk will make the successful pass and then what do we do?

I don't get what your saying... How would Dirk get the ball before the hedging starts? The only reason we would hedge would be because Dirk would be setting a screen. He wouldn't be an option to pass to and even if they gave him the ball, he would have two defenders around him, and no open teammate. (The guard would stick to the guard).

Maybe your thinking of Dirk as the ball handler? If Dirk wants to try to run the pick n roll as a ball handler then I say let him. That's steal after steal for us.

In any case where an offensive player is open on a cut to the rim, the defense has to rotate (something we have a problem doing and isn't a point of emphasis in Stotts' philosophy). We rotate fast enough, we can take a charge, or maybe steal the pass. We have long, athletic wings that could steal these passes, but since we don't pressure and let the other team essentially pick the mismatch they want by only running a screen or two, these passes are non existent.

I think Stotts is still limited in his options and is finding out through trial and error what is and isnt working with this team.
Why does it take so long for him to see that the switch isnt working? Maybe it isnt, but the solutiuon isnt coming when he thinks about it 4-5 plays down the road. So since he knows the end result is still going to be negative. He continues with what we are doing to try to figure that out, or until a viable, sustainable solution is found.

The problem is we've gotten burned with this strategy before, and he continues to try it deep into a game before trying ANYTHING else. He is so slow to make adjustments and that's a major gripe with people on this board. You could ask for them to come up with a better option, but it's really as simple as he needs to make adjustments and try different things faster. He needs to do it after we get burnt by the lazy switching a couple times in the first quarter, not after Dirk has reached the 40 point mark in the fourth. He had the same problems failing or making too slow of adjustments against the Rockets when they put big wings on Dame and CJ. That's why a lot of us don't have confidence in him to help us go far into playoffs, where adjustments are key from game to game, and where he fails to realize the ones he needs to make.

We'll see Wednesday what adjustments he makes at the start of the game. Hopefully he'll learn that switching guards onto Dirk is the worst case scenario, especially with the other guys out there who aren't hard to guard (Barea/Felton, a hobbled Wes Matthews, Justin Anderson, Zaza, some foreign dude I've never heard of named Merji or something)

But I'm not confident that we'll see anything different. If we don't it should be the final piece of validation in regards to posts like this.

 

[Strenuus]

I do admit it. Wait till we get smacked in the 1st round. I'll be saying I told you so then..

You don't.

 

[dviss1]

Him as DC to Stotts would negate Stotts defensive deficiencies. Thibs major problem is the allotment of minutes and the handling of rotations, something he wouldn't have the opportunity to do as an assistant.

The notion that Tom Thibodeau would take an assistant head coaching job when he will probably be one of the highest paid coaches in the league when he finds a job, is just silly...

 

[Blazers Roy]

I don't understand how 100% of this forum is not freakin outraged at Stotts after this game, i think Stotts is in the same coaching tier as Sam Mitchell and Scott Skiles right now.

Stotts: "Just pass it to Damien and let him shoot the 30ft three, guys"
CJ: "but coach, don't you think it will be wiser to execute a team play for a high percentage shot? i mean, we don't really need a three now."
Stotts: "SHUT YOUR FUCKIN MOUTH URKEL! I'LL SHOW RICK ONCE AND FOR ALL WHO IS THE REAL GENIUS AROUND HERE!"

The problem is Stotts is such a great "corporate guy", he'll never get tossed after this season.

 

[blue9]

I don't understand how 100% of this forum is not freakin outraged at Stotts after this game, i think Stotts is in the same coaching tier as Sam Mitchell and Scott Skiles right now.

Stotts: "Just pass it to Damien and let him shoot the 30ft three, guys"
CJ: "but coach, don't you think it will be wiser to execute a team play for a high percentage shot? i mean, we don't really need a three now."
Stotts: "SHUT YOUR FUCKIN MOUTH URKEL! I'LL SHOW RICK ONCE AND FOR ALL WHO IS THE REAL GENIUS AROUND HERE!"

The problem is Stotts is such a great "corporate guy", he'll never get tossed after this season.

Agreed. He's just another part of the MASSIVE middle tier of mediocre coaches. He's not horrible at anything, but not great at anything either. All he does is let the players do what they (mostly) do best. But there's zero accountability with him in charge. It's almost a shame that's we've been so successful this season, because it basically assures that we'll extend him.

 

[BonesJones]

The notion that Tom Thibodeau would take an assistant head coaching job when he will probably be one of the highest paid coaches in the league when he finds a job, is just silly...

Hence why I said "overpay"

 

[Draco]

No coach in the league has the job security that Pop does. These guys (Terry included) have to go all out to win.

Pops has won 50+ games every season. The NBA season is a marathon not a sprint. When you go all out and play starters huge minutes; over the season it costs your team wins.

 

[H.C.]

Pops has won 50+ games every season. The NBA season is a marathon not a sprint. When you go all out and play starters huge minutes; over the season it costs your team wins.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/d/duncati01.html
Please look at Duncan's first 6 or 7 seasons.
pop wasn't saving their best players back then when he prolly didn't have the job security he has now.... Being that he didn't really start limiting minutes until 09-10 season for the best player on the team Duncan.