The 2013-14 OFFICIAL Media Day Thread....

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DaLincolnJones said:
damn I love the guy still....hate to see what has happened to him
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Oh I love him like a fat kid loves cake. I'd take him if it were like baseball and the other team could pay his horrible contract. But I love me some G-Dub. I bet if he could go somewhere and go all out G-Dub style for 20-25 minutes per game.... It'd be awesome to see.
 
BLAZINGGIANTS said:
Oh I love him like a fat kid loves cake. I'd take him if it were like baseball and the other team could pay his horrible contract. But I love me some G-Dub. I bet if he could go somewhere and go all out G-Dub style for 20-25 minutes per game.... It'd be awesome to see.
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yeah..he could be in the perfect place. Just proves that situation trumps ability so often
 
DaLincolnJones said:
yeah..he could be in the perfect place. Just proves that situation trumps ability so often
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He has the ability still. He just needs to be on a upper-level playoff team to be at his best at this point. He'll be exposed as aging on a weak team like Boston. But on a better playoff team, he could fill a huge role and look like a rejuvenated stud.
 
Draco said:
I agree many fans are under rating Hickson. I'd rather have him than Thomas Robinson as a backup PF off the bench. He has some big limitations on defense but he was a legit rotational player that could score or rebound with anyone in this league. If we had a starting center and only had to play Hickson 20mpg his weaknesses wouldn’t have been magnified.
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I'd agree though my guess is that he wouldn't have accepted a backup role (& money) in PDX... better to swing for starter-ish type $ on the Free Agent market. He didn't hit a homer in the FA market, but he also didn't leave $ on the table.

Anyhoo, both guys are under contract for the next 3 seasons with TR making 11.9M to JJ's 16.1. It's not my money and I'm not trying to save PA some petty millions but I am an advocate of saving $ for the sake of being able to spend it elsewhere like they've done. While Robinson may not be as good today as Hickson, they've similar games & Robinson has more upside as he's more athletic. He's got a great opportunity to be the main backup Big on a solid team... fingers crossed

STOMP
 
We know what JJ Hickson is. I don't see him improving drastically. Robinson is a bit of an enigma. He has the potential to be a star. At worst, he'll be Hickson. At best, he could be something special.
 
T-Rob would have to get worse on D to match a "worst-case" scenario of JJ.
 
handiman said:
Except that JJ's offense is quite a bit more refined.
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I don't think so. JJ relied heavily on his athleticism. It's not like we're talking about Karl Malone here. He scored a lot of putbacks and dunks.
 
Hickson has a way better jumper than Robinson and he doesn't spaz out with the ball in his hands like Robinson does.

And despite being more athletic than JJ, JJ is actually a much better finisher around the rim.

He's just better than Robinson on the offensive end. IMO it's not even close.
 
I mean just to prove it

Hickson

At the rim: 67%
Shot type - Dunk: 93%
Shot type - Lay-up: 57%
Shot type - Jumper: 42%

Robinson

At the rim: 54%
Shot type - Dunk: 78%
Shot type - Lay-up: 46%
Shot type - Jumper: 28%

Robinson isn't the offensive threat Hickson is, and I'm not even sure he's a better rebounder, either. Basically we have to hope Robinson is a much better defender for him to even have a chance at being better than JJ.

I've said from day 1 I don't really consider Robinson an upgrade over Hickson at this time. If anything I'd say the opposite. Robinson has to really improve for me to change my mind, but I'm not really sure he has that high of a ceiling. He's undersized and hasn't shown a real offensive game.
 
RoyToy said:
I mean just to prove it

Hickson

At the rim: 67%
Shot type - Dunk: 93%
Shot type - Lay-up: 57%
Shot type - Jumper: 42%

Robinson

At the rim: 54%
Shot type - Dunk: 78%
Shot type - Lay-up: 46%
Shot type - Jumper: 28%

Robinson isn't the offensive threat Hickson is, and I'm not even sure he's a better rebounder, either. Basically we have to hope Robinson is a much better defender for him to even have a chance at being better than JJ.

I've said from day 1 I don't really consider Robinson an upgrade over Hickson at this time. If anything I'd say the opposite. Robinson has to really improve for me to change my mind, but I'm not really sure he has that high of a ceiling. He's undersized and hasn't shown a real offensive game.
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Robinson is going into his second season... Hickson is going into his sixth season. Are you really comparing the two in terms of numbers?

How about you go back and look at what Hickson did as a rookie. Is his game more polished? God I would sure hope so. He's been in the league for five years. My point is that Hickson's not some kind of offensive dynamo. The bar is awfully low if Hickson is the ceiling. I said that, at worst, he could be Hickson. I stand by that. I wasn't talking about this season. I was talking about his potential, as in down the road. Not now.

You know what Hickson put up as a rookie? 4 ppg and 2.7 rebounds. Those are some gaudy numbers...
 
You said you didn't agree that Hickson was more refined than Robinson on offense. That's clearly not the case. Hickson is a much more complete offensive player right now and that's really not debatable.

That's what I was responding to.
 
Nate, you lose all credibility when you go from saying Hickson is not better on offense, to saying he's only better because he's more experienced. We might as well ban all non-all star veterans from the league, in that case. Admit it, RoyToy's numbers clearly show what your biased eyes failed to see.
 
JJ Hickson is very limited offensively, so is T-Rob. Hickson has pretty much hit what his peek is while T-Rob isn't close and T-Rob has the skillset that should allow him to be more useful then Hickson on the offensive end in the future, not this year but in years to come. I think thats pretty much what Nate was trying to get at.
 
Great now all we have to look forward to for the next 7 months is this chump bashing Thomas Robinson in EVERY thread just like he does Nic Batum. Fun.


Sent from my baller ass iPhone 5 FAMS!
 
T-Rob will a physical beast in the front court. Any offense is cherry on top.
 
Rhal said:
JJ Hickson is very limited offensively, so is T-Rob. Hickson has pretty much hit what his peek is while T-Rob isn't close and T-Rob has the skillset that should allow him to be more useful then Hickson on the offensive end in the future, not this year but in years to come. I think thats pretty much what Nate was trying to get at.
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Well I couldn't disagree more with this post if that's Nate's opinion. Every statement in your post is clearly wrong imo. I don't see one facet of Robinson's offensive game that will be better than Hickson's.
 
RoyToy said:
Well I couldn't disagree more with this post if that's Nate's opinion. Every statement in your post is clearly wrong imo. I don't see one facet of Robinson's offensive game that will be better than Hickson's.
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Hickson is very limited offensively. He has bad handles, is a bad passer and has a very inconsistent shot. He is a garbage man who can score off the PnR and around the basket but that's about it.
Robinson has shown, in college, all the same offensive skills as Hickson as well as actual ball handling skills. Is he going to be better then Hickson offensively this year, very doubtful. But Robinson has the potential to be a much better player then Hickson in the future.

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 2
 
Rhal said:
Hickson is very limited offensively. He has bad handles, is a bad passer and has a very inconsistent shot. He is a garbage man who can score off the PnR and around the basket but that's about it.
Robinson has shown, in college, all the same offensive skills as Hickson as well as actual ball handling skills. Is he going to be better then Hickson offensively this year, very doubtful. But Robinson has the potential to be a much better player then Hickson in the future.

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 2
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On the offensive end?

No, he hasn't shown that at all. He's shown nothing on offense that makes me think he'll be better than Hickson on offense in the future. Some alleged better ball handling that hasn't really helped him much is not some great ability. It might help him get to the basket sometimes, but it's too bad he's not a great finisher at the rim like Hickson is. Robinson spazzes out and rushes it, probably because he's undersized.

Thomas Robinson is the garbage man player in this comparison between the two, not Hickson. Hickson actually has touch and a jumper. Robinson is all effort and crazyness. Will Robinson get better? Hopefully. If he does he then might be as good offensively as Hickson, but I highly, highly doubt he'll be better.

In the end it's my opinion with Robinson being undersized that he won't ever be a great finisher around the rim.
 
RoyToy said:
You said you didn't agree that Hickson was more refined than Robinson on offense. That's clearly not the case. Hickson is a much more complete offensive player right now and that's really not debatable.

That's what I was responding to.
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Clearly your definition of refinement is different than mine, because all I see from your numbers is that I was correct. He scores on a lot of drunks and putbacks. 42% on jumpers is not refined. I don't consider Hickson to be some kind of polished offensive machine. He doesn't have nearly the moves that a Zach Randolph, Aldridge, or Duncan has. Is he currently, as a fifth year starter, better than Robinson? Yes. But if you compare the two in their rookie seasons, they are very comparable, with Robinson as the better rebounder.

handiman said:
Nate, you lose all credibility when you go from saying Hickson is not better on offense, to saying he's only better because he's more experienced. We might as well ban all non-all star veterans from the league, in that case. Admit it, RoyToy's numbers clearly show what your biased eyes failed to see.
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And you lose all credibility when you try to shift the debate away from potential to current. I never said that Hickson wasn't better than Robinson, I said I didn't think he was more "refined". I still don't. I think Hickson relies heavily on his athleticism to get buckets, and if anything, Roytoy showed that I was right.

I said that Robinson's potential floor was Hickson. Suddenly we're comparing Robinson's game and numbers from his rookie season to Hickson in his fifth year? Seriously, go back and look at what Hickson did in his rookie season. They aren't much different. Robinson rebounded at a better clip.

If you guys are seriously trying to make the case that keeping Hickson was the better move, you are failing to recognize that Hickson was our starting center last year. Not our bench player. If you want to compare numbers, compare Hickson to our new starting center (his replacement.) Robinson is replacing Luke Babbitt.
 
RoyToy said:
On the offensive end?

No, he hasn't shown that at all. He's shown nothing on offense that makes me think he'll be better than Hickson on offense in the future. Some alleged better ball handling that hasn't really helped him much is not some great ability. It might help him get to the basket sometimes, but it's too bad he's not a great finisher at the rim like Hickson is. Robinson spazzes out and rushes it, probably because he's undersized.

Thomas Robinson is the garbage man player in this comparison between the two, not Hickson. Hickson actually has touch and a jumper. Robinson is all effort and crazyness. Will Robinson get better? Hopefully. If he does he then might be as good offensively as Hickson, but I highly, highly doubt he'll be better.

In the end it's my opinion with Robinson being undersized that he won't ever be a great finisher around the rim.
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You know who else spazzed out and pushed it? Jermaine O'Neal. You're judging him based on his lack of experience and nerves. The dude was a rookie. Good grief. It's difficult for big men to adapt to the league. They're used to being the biggest, meanest mother fuckers on the block, and then they get to the NBA and they're just normal sized. It's an adjustment. It's a learning experience. He's pushing it because he wants to do well. Give him some time to adjust and learn and adapt to the NBA.
 
Comparing contracts, role on the team and potential upside I take Robinson. Prudent move by Olshey.
 
Natebishop3 said:
You know who else spazzed out and pushed it? Jermaine O'Neal. You're judging him based on his lack of experience and nerves. The dude was a rookie. Good grief. It's difficult for big men to adapt to the league. They're used to being the biggest, meanest mother fuckers on the block, and then they get to the NBA and they're just normal sized. It's an adjustment. It's a learning experience. He's pushing it because he wants to do well. Give him some time to adjust and learn and adapt to the NBA.
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Some guys just don't finish well around the basket. Robinson is undersized and lacks touch. It's no secret why he doesn't finish well.

I also think it's silly comparing Hickson and Robinson in their rookie years. Hickson came out as a freshman while Robinson came out as a junior. Funny part is it's arguable Hickson's freshman year at NC State is almost as good as Robinson's junior year at Kansas.

Then you compare their raw totals for their rookie years, but that doesn't really say much. When you look deeper you still see Hickson being much better at finishing around the rim (66% at the rim, 85% dunk, 56% lay-up). Robinson being older than Hickson as a rookie at the rim: 54% at the rim, 78% dunk, 46% lay-up.
 
Rhal said:
JJ Hickson is very limited offensively, so is T-Rob. Hickson has pretty much hit what his peek is while T-Rob isn't close.
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Hickson has plenty of room for improvement. He just needs the right coach who has the right system. Many of his faults are correctable. Same for Robinson.
 
RoyToy said:
Some guys just don't finish well around the basket. Robinson is undersized and lacks touch. It's no secret why he doesn't finish well.

I also think it's silly comparing Hickson and Robinson in their rookie years. Hickson came out as a freshman while Robinson came out as a junior. Funny part is it's arguable Hickson's freshman year at NC State is almost as good as Robinson's junior year at Kansas.

Then you compare their raw totals for their rookie years, but that doesn't really say much. When you look deeper you still see Hickson being much better at finishing around the rim (66% at the rim, 85% dunk, 56% lay-up). Robinson being older than Hickson as a rookie at the rim: 54% at the rim, 78% dunk, 46% lay-up.
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Robinsons stats on a good Kansas team in college are much more impressive. Just a question, but do you value defense at all. Because Hickson gave up just as much as he got with the Blazers. Probably why I wasn't heartbroken when we let him go.
 
Natebishop3 said:
And you lose all credibility when you try to shift the debate away from potential to current. I never said that Hickson wasn't better than Robinson, I said I didn't think he was more "refined".
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What the hell is "refined" if not current ability?

BLAZINGGIANTS said:
Except the post I was referring to was talking about his potential, not where T-Rob is at right now. But thanks for playing.
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You didn't quote what you were referring to, so nice try. No quote, no context.
 
RoyToy said:
Some guys just don't finish well around the basket. Robinson is undersized and lacks touch. It's no secret why he doesn't finish well.

I also think it's silly comparing Hickson and Robinson in their rookie years. Hickson came out as a freshman while Robinson came out as a junior. Funny part is it's arguable Hickson's freshman year at NC State is almost as good as Robinson's junior year at Kansas.

Then you compare their raw totals for their rookie years, but that doesn't really say much. When you look deeper you still see Hickson being much better at finishing around the rim (66% at the rim, 85% dunk, 56% lay-up). Robinson being older than Hickson as a rookie at the rim: 54% at the rim, 78% dunk, 46% lay-up.
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He is undersized at 6-8 but Hickson is fine at 6-9? The two weigh near the same and both have long wingspans Robinson was a freak athlete coming out of college.'

Trying to use Robinsons rookie stats to tell the story of how good he can be is just crazy because he was on a HORRIBLE Kings team that didn't know if they wanted to make him a jump shooter/Point Forward/Garabage man then got traded to a team that was trying to make the playoffs so there is no way he was going to get time on the Rockets. So basing anything off of his Rookie season by stats alone is almost worthless. As for finishing by the rim, its something he did in college and its something most rookies have to work on and if he puts the time and effort in it is something he can drastically improve on.
T-Rob was the 5th pick in the draft a year ago and a lot of people thought he was going to go #2. A down rookie year doesn't suddenly cause all of his potential to vanish especially when it was a very turbulent year for him.
 
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