The Anfernee Conundrum

Welcome to our community

Be a part of something great, join today!

Register Log in
Rastapopoulos

Rastapopoulos

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 30, 2008
Messages
42,391
Likes
26,789
Points
113
Is Anfernee even still on the team? Because everybody's talking about how getting Scoot will drive Dame out the door, but won't it drive Ant AND Dame out the door eventually? I mean, we all know the backcourt of the future is Scoot and Shaedon, and unless Ant is happy being our Vinnie Johnson (have your grandpa explain the reference)...

But, of course, as has been hashed out a billion times on this forum, there's essentially nowhere that will give up anything of value for him.

Here are my best suggestions:
Brooklyn for a re-signed Cam Johnson (yes please - but unlikely) or (more likely) some combination of Dorian Finney-Smith, Royce O'Neal, Patty Mills, Joe Harris and Cam Thomas
PROBLEM: Brooklyn probably thinks they've got a shot at Dame so won't want to do anything that make it more likely Dame stays.
Orlando ideally for Wendell Carter Jr., but they would be more likely to want to offload a guard like Fultz or Cole Anthony (who is a poor man's Ant) along with Jonathan "Anti-Woke" Isaac.
Toronto might be interested if they lose Fred VanVleet to free agency, but who would they give us? Not Siakam or OG, no matter how much we'd like it.
You'd think Charlotte could use him, but then what would they do with Terry Rozier? And what would they offer in return? Gordon Hayward? Yeesh. He's 33 already!
Maybe Sacramento? Except they have Monk, Huerter and Davion Mitchell. But I quite like the idea of Ant for a signed-and-traded Harrison F. Barnes (who is surprisingly only 31)
Utah? They have Colin Sexton and Jordan Clarkson.

See what I mean?
 
I mean - has anyone seen any mention of Ant since the season ended? It's as if he's ghosted.
 
All good points, and all true, but you can't prioritize the Ant situation over Dame's. Yes, eventually they'll both need to be dealt with, but in the short term, if you're trading Dame, you can start Ant at PG and attempt to elevate his value to move either at the deadline or next offseason. We've got plenty of years for the Scoot/Sharpe backcourt, so Scoot coming off the bench for half or maybe one year, if it maximizes a potentially valuable asset (while we're not winning anyway) is probably the right call.

Obviously if Dame decides to stay it becomes the big issue...
 
We hear Simons mentioned as a fantastic, highly talented young guard during national media trade Dame discussions.

Lately around town, it's super rookie happy time. I haven't heard anything about Anfernee Simons, other then an occasional rumor to package Ant in imaginary deals to bring All-Stars into Portland.
 
I find it hard to believe Ant doesn't have value around the League. But even though he's not a very good facilitator , Ant is better than Malachi Flynn . Currently Toronto's only PG under contract. With Van Vleet's situation still up in the air . I believe Toronto will proceed with the OG trade at some point.
 
tykendo said:
I find it hard to believe Ant doesn't have value around the League. But even though he's not a very good facilitator , Ant is better than Malachi Flynn . Currently Toronto's only PG under contract. With Van Vleet's situation still up in the air . I believe Toronto will proceed with the OG trade at some point.
Click to expand...
Scottie Barnes is their PG of the future. I'm sure Toronto would be happy to give us Gary Trent back.
 
Either Dame or Ant goes but I don't think both.

Some fans mention his lack of value and then at the same time say there is no way he will accept coming off the bench. Does anyone really think his ego is that big that he would pout? I don't.

Now the other argument is he makes too much to come off the bench. If Dame is traded for expiring contracts I don't see a problem until SS and Scoot are up for extensions.
 
I think Ant would be a great backup guard if Scoot and Shaedon are the starting back court. That's a really good three man rotation.
 
I like the kid's attitude and for the most part, what skill he brings on the court. But has others have said, realistically I don't foresee us getting a ton of return for him. He would have to be included with maybe someone like Nurk imo to get anything substantive back.
 
It would seem someone has to go. There are not minutes for all 4 in the backcourt and if they all stay, it means Shaedon has to play some at SF which is not is best position. I'm so tired of players having to play out of their strongest spot because we are so small.

Ant is the most likely is Dame is staying. Oddly, Ant is probably the starting PG if Dame is moved. Let Scoot learn while not having the pressure of being the man, at least for a bit.
 
Sloth said:
I like the kid's attitude and for the most part, what skill he brings on the court. But has others have said, realistically I don't foresee us getting a ton of return for him. He would have to be included with maybe someone like Nurk imo to get anything substantive back.
Click to expand...

I think for a lot of teams, adding Nurk's contract makes it even more difficult to get a good return.....unless some team wants to dump a bad contract on us. Neither of them is on a team-friendly deal. Not horrible contracts, but still not great.

Combined they make over 40 million next year. IMO if Dame is moved we make it a stipulation that they take Nurk too. But if Dame stays we might need to trade them (Nurk/Ant) separately, unless as I said someone wants to dump a bad contract to get a deal done.
 
B-Roy said:
I think people will be surprised by how little value we get back once Ant is moved.
Click to expand...

Because he's one dimensional. Let's hope for one (1) first round pick. The players will be mid too, just like Ant is.
 
Since Ant is a high-quality catch and shoot guy who also scores both midrange and now gets to the hoop, that’s a quality asset. As a 2ndary initiator if not a true PG, good. Not good at D

So he has value and is locked into a very reasonable contact based on production. He’s certainly not a solution at guard for just any team. He’s also not someone that returns scrubs.

The hole remains at forward. Ant’s a starter and even Nurkic is a deft starting center. 15th best at least.

With Dame, Scoot and Shaedon, Ant is odd man out.
I don’t see a whole of argument unless Scoot signs, they wait for 30 days, and then add his contract to Ant or Nurk. Voila! New starting forward!
 
HoopsFanAZ said:
Since Ant is a high-quality catch and shoot guy who also scores both midrange and now gets to the hoop, that’s a quality asset.
Click to expand...

NBA catch & Shoot eFG%:

Damian Jones 84.2
Chris Paul 78.5
Luke Kennard 78.4
Gary Payton II 75.9
Jalen Brunson 71.9
Bojan Bogdanovic 69.0
Damion Lee 68.8
Yuta Watanabe 68.6
Day'Ron Sharpe 67.9
Tyrese Maxey 67.6
Jrue Holiday 66.9
Shaedon Sharpe 66.7
Jae Crowder 66.3
Malcolm Brogdon 66.1
Danny Green 65.6
Michael Porter Jr. 65.6
Mike Conley 65.4
Aaron Holiday 65.3
Al Horford 65.1
Kentavious Caldwell-Pope 65.0
Alec Burks 64.7
Jevon Carter 64.3
Zion Williamson 64.3
Darius Garland 64.2
Devin Booker 64.2
Gary Harris 64.2
Corey Kispert 64.0
Jordan Nwora 63.9
Joe Harris 63.8
Goran Dragic 63.7
Sam Hauser 63.7
Andrew Wiggins 63.5
Kevin Porter Jr. 63.3
Donte DiVincenzo 63.2
Usman Garuba 63.2
Cam Thomas 62.7
Isaiah Joe 62.7
Buddy Hield 62.6
James Harden 62.6
Patrick Williams 62.5
Kevin Durant 62.4
De'Anthony Melton 62.3
Grayson Allen 62.3
Josh Green 62.3
Devin Vassell 62.1
Cameron Johnson 61.9
Georges Niang 61.9
Stephen Curry 61.9
Anthony Edwards 61.8
Spencer Dinwiddie 61.8
Taurean Prince 61.7
Kyle Anderson 61.6
Cory Joseph 61.5
O.G. Anunoby 61.5
Garrett Temple 61.4
Kawhi Leonard 61.4
Keegan Murray 61.4
Norman Powell 61.4
D'Angelo Russell 61.3
Shake Milton 61.3
Zach LaVine 61.3
Christian Wood 61.1
Lauri Markkanen 60.9
Robert Covington 60.7
Doug McDermott 60.6
Kenrich Williams 60.6
Austin Reaves 60.4
Jamal Murray 60.4
LaMelo Ball 60.3
Will Barton 60.3
Nikola Jokic 60.2
Trey Murphy III 60.2
Desmond Bane 60.1
Landry Shamet 60.1
Franz Wagner 60.0
Josh Hart 59.9
Quentin Grimes 59.9
Gary Trent Jr. 59.8
Keita Bates-Diop 59.8
Klay Thompson 59.8
Seth Curry 59.7
Thomas Bryant 59.7
Tyrese Haliburton 59.7
Bogdan Bogdanovic 59.6
Jayson Tatum 59.5
Brandon Ingram 59.3
George Hill 59.3
P.J. Tucker 59.3
Caris LeVert 59.2
CJ McCollum 59.1
Terance Mann 59.0
Royce O'Neale 58.9
Torrey Craig 58.9
Anfernee Simons 58.7

that's a lot of players with a better percentage on catch & shoot. I guess it may depend on the definition of high quality
 
wizenheimer said:
NBA catch & Shoot eFG%:

Damian Jones 84.2
Chris Paul 78.5
Luke Kennard 78.4
Gary Payton II 75.9
Jalen Brunson 71.9
Bojan Bogdanovic 69.0
Damion Lee 68.8
Yuta Watanabe 68.6
Day'Ron Sharpe 67.9
Tyrese Maxey 67.6
Jrue Holiday 66.9
Shaedon Sharpe 66.7
Jae Crowder 66.3
Malcolm Brogdon 66.1
Danny Green 65.6
Michael Porter Jr. 65.6
Mike Conley 65.4
Aaron Holiday 65.3
Al Horford 65.1
Kentavious Caldwell-Pope 65.0
Alec Burks 64.7
Jevon Carter 64.3
Zion Williamson 64.3
Darius Garland 64.2
Devin Booker 64.2
Gary Harris 64.2
Corey Kispert 64.0
Jordan Nwora 63.9
Joe Harris 63.8
Goran Dragic 63.7
Sam Hauser 63.7
Andrew Wiggins 63.5
Kevin Porter Jr. 63.3
Donte DiVincenzo 63.2
Usman Garuba 63.2
Cam Thomas 62.7
Isaiah Joe 62.7
Buddy Hield 62.6
James Harden 62.6
Patrick Williams 62.5
Kevin Durant 62.4
De'Anthony Melton 62.3
Grayson Allen 62.3
Josh Green 62.3
Devin Vassell 62.1
Cameron Johnson 61.9
Georges Niang 61.9
Stephen Curry 61.9
Anthony Edwards 61.8
Spencer Dinwiddie 61.8
Taurean Prince 61.7
Kyle Anderson 61.6
Cory Joseph 61.5
O.G. Anunoby 61.5
Garrett Temple 61.4
Kawhi Leonard 61.4
Keegan Murray 61.4
Norman Powell 61.4
D'Angelo Russell 61.3
Shake Milton 61.3
Zach LaVine 61.3
Christian Wood 61.1
Lauri Markkanen 60.9
Robert Covington 60.7
Doug McDermott 60.6
Kenrich Williams 60.6
Austin Reaves 60.4
Jamal Murray 60.4
LaMelo Ball 60.3
Will Barton 60.3
Nikola Jokic 60.2
Trey Murphy III 60.2
Desmond Bane 60.1
Landry Shamet 60.1
Franz Wagner 60.0
Josh Hart 59.9
Quentin Grimes 59.9
Gary Trent Jr. 59.8
Keita Bates-Diop 59.8
Klay Thompson 59.8
Seth Curry 59.7
Thomas Bryant 59.7
Tyrese Haliburton 59.7
Bogdan Bogdanovic 59.6
Jayson Tatum 59.5
Brandon Ingram 59.3
George Hill 59.3
P.J. Tucker 59.3
Caris LeVert 59.2
CJ McCollum 59.1
Terance Mann 59.0
Royce O'Neale 58.9
Torrey Craig 58.9
Anfernee Simons 58.7

that's a lot of players with a better percentage on catch & shoot. I guess it may depend on the definition of high quality
Click to expand...

True, but few are at his level of volume. Seth Curry and Klay Thompson are towards the bottom of that list as well and I'm guessing most people would prefer them as catch-n-shoot players over most of the people on that list. For example, Josh Hart is above all 3 of them. Almost invalidates the list from that perspective.
 
Not that I think there's enough minutes, but I would love to see Shae start with Dame and Ant n Scoot come in off the bench.
 
RR7 said:
Does this differ from Ideas For Ant so much it needed it's own thread?
Click to expand...
Not to speak for Rastapopoulos, but for me I feel like this thread might be an interesting way to discuss Ant in a theoretical manner. If this team is trying to contend, how Ant is used (either as a member of the team or as a trade piece) is important because every win will matter this year. Imho, the line that separates a happy Dame from a Dame that demands a trade is the 6th seed. I think he'll be unhappy if he has to play into the playoffs. Only 6 games separated the warriors at 6 from the Mavs at 11. So we need to get the most our of our best players. To make this happen, Ant has to start next to Dame. Putting him on the bench hoses our fragile little ecosystem.

But if we're not contending we can be a little more experimental. In that situation maybe we try out something like blazerkor suggested and start the youngins and make Ant the sixth man. Or if the cupboard is really bare in our front court we go crazy and try out a four guard lineup just to get these guys on the court. Just go nuts with the different lineup ideas and guess which ones would benefit Ant and which ones would waste his "talents"
 
TBpup said:
True, but few are at his level of volume. Seth Curry and Klay Thompson are towards the bottom of that list as well and I'm guessing most people would prefer them as catch-n-shoot players over most of the people on that list. For example, Josh Hart is above all 3 of them. Almost invalidates the list from that perspective.
Click to expand...

it makes for a shorter list. I don't think it changes the picture much though

player - FGA/game - eFG%

Simons - 5.7 - 58.7%

Luke Kennard 3.7 - 78.4
Bojan Bogdanovic 4.2 - 69.0
Damion Lee 3.2 - 68.8
Tyrese Maxey 3.6 - 67.6
Shaedon Sharpe 2.0 - 66.7
Michael Porter Jr. 6.0 - 65.6
Al Horford 5.3 - 65.1
Kentavious Caldwell-Pope 3.9 - 65.0
Gary Harris 3.9 - 64.2
Corey Kispert 4.8 - 64.0
Joe Harris 4.0 - 63.8
Sam Hauser 3.9 - 63.7
Andrew Wiggins 5.2 - 63.5
Donte DiVincenzo 4.4 - 63.2
Isaiah Joe 4.3 - 62.7
Buddy Hield 6.0 - 62.6
Kevin Durant 3.7 - 62.4
De'Anthony Melton 4.0 - 62.3
Grayson Allen 3.7 - 62.3
Devin Vassell 5.3 - 62.1
Cameron Johnson 5.5 - 61.9
Georges Niang 4.6 - 61.9
Stephen Curry 5.3 - 61.9
O.G. Anunoby 4.7 - 61.5
Kawhi Leonard 3.2 - 61.4
Keegan Murray 5.9 - 61.4
Norman Powell 3.5 - 61.4
D'Angelo Russell 3.9 - 61.3
Zach LaVine 3.2 - 61.3
Christian Wood 3.5 - 61.1
Lauri Markkanen 7.0 - 60.9
Doug McDermott 4.0 - 60.6
LaMelo Ball 5.5 - 60.3
Trey Murphy III 5.8 - 60.2
Desmond Bane 3.7 - 60.1
Landry Shamet 3.5 - 60.1
Quentin Grimes 5.0 - 59.9
Gary Trent Jr. 4.7 - 59.8
Klay Thompson 8.7 - 59.8
Bogdan Bogdanovic 5.3 - 59.6
Jayson Tatum 4.6 - 59.5
Brandon Ingram 3.3 - 59.3
CJ McCollum 4.6 - 59.1
Royce O'Neale 4.7 - 58.9
Anfernee Simons 4.9 - 58.7
Kevin Huerter 4.8 - 58.6
Tim Hardaway Jr. 6.2 - 58.6
Coby White 3.9 - 58.4
Reggie Bullock 4.9 - 58.3

I don't know what the minimum cutoff would be. But if you use that gauge then you need to come up with some adjustment for opportunity. Simons was 27th in the NBA in FGA. Catch and shoot was 29% of his shots. Might need to compare that rate to other players, not just raw volume
 
wizenheimer said:
NBA catch & Shoot eFG%:

Damian Jones 84.2
Chris Paul 78.5
Luke Kennard 78.4
Gary Payton II 75.9
Jalen Brunson 71.9
Bojan Bogdanovic 69.0
Damion Lee 68.8
Yuta Watanabe 68.6
Day'Ron Sharpe 67.9
Tyrese Maxey 67.6
Jrue Holiday 66.9
Shaedon Sharpe 66.7
Jae Crowder 66.3
Malcolm Brogdon 66.1
Danny Green 65.6
Michael Porter Jr. 65.6
Mike Conley 65.4
Aaron Holiday 65.3
Al Horford 65.1
Kentavious Caldwell-Pope 65.0
Alec Burks 64.7
Jevon Carter 64.3
Zion Williamson 64.3
Darius Garland 64.2
Devin Booker 64.2
Gary Harris 64.2
Corey Kispert 64.0
Jordan Nwora 63.9
Joe Harris 63.8
Goran Dragic 63.7
Sam Hauser 63.7
Andrew Wiggins 63.5
Kevin Porter Jr. 63.3
Donte DiVincenzo 63.2
Usman Garuba 63.2
Cam Thomas 62.7
Isaiah Joe 62.7
Buddy Hield 62.6
James Harden 62.6
Patrick Williams 62.5
Kevin Durant 62.4
De'Anthony Melton 62.3
Grayson Allen 62.3
Josh Green 62.3
Devin Vassell 62.1
Cameron Johnson 61.9
Georges Niang 61.9
Stephen Curry 61.9
Anthony Edwards 61.8
Spencer Dinwiddie 61.8
Taurean Prince 61.7
Kyle Anderson 61.6
Cory Joseph 61.5
O.G. Anunoby 61.5
Garrett Temple 61.4
Kawhi Leonard 61.4
Keegan Murray 61.4
Norman Powell 61.4
D'Angelo Russell 61.3
Shake Milton 61.3
Zach LaVine 61.3
Christian Wood 61.1
Lauri Markkanen 60.9
Robert Covington 60.7
Doug McDermott 60.6
Kenrich Williams 60.6
Austin Reaves 60.4
Jamal Murray 60.4
LaMelo Ball 60.3
Will Barton 60.3
Nikola Jokic 60.2
Trey Murphy III 60.2
Desmond Bane 60.1
Landry Shamet 60.1
Franz Wagner 60.0
Josh Hart 59.9
Quentin Grimes 59.9
Gary Trent Jr. 59.8
Keita Bates-Diop 59.8
Klay Thompson 59.8
Seth Curry 59.7
Thomas Bryant 59.7
Tyrese Haliburton 59.7
Bogdan Bogdanovic 59.6
Jayson Tatum 59.5
Brandon Ingram 59.3
George Hill 59.3
P.J. Tucker 59.3
Caris LeVert 59.2
CJ McCollum 59.1
Terance Mann 59.0
Royce O'Neale 58.9
Torrey Craig 58.9
Anfernee Simons 58.7

that's a lot of players with a better percentage on catch & shoot. I guess it may depend on the definition of high quality
Click to expand...
Where's Lillard?
 
If the team gets a very good forward then it's fine to trade Ant.

But we shouldn't dump him for a poor return if the Dame situation is up in the air. It would be stupid to accept less value for Ant, need to trade Dame in a few months, then see Ant lead the league in scoring elsewhere.
 
B-Roy said:
I think people will be surprised by how little value we get back once Ant is moved.
Click to expand...
Seriously.
Look at what is being talked about for Lillard.
Simons gets the Blazers a pork chop maybe. In-N-Out burger?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Users who are viewing this thread

Total: 1 (members: 0, guests: 1)
Back
Top