The Arizona Uproar

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ABM

ABM

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The Arizona Uproar

By Leo W. Banks

Listening to the national uproar, you'd be forgiven for thinking that Arizona has marched into the civil rights apocalypse with its new state law cracking down on illegal immigrants.
Last Friday, Arizona Governor Jan Brewer signed SB1070, making it a crime to be in the state illegally and requiring cops, where "reasonable suspicion" exists, to determine a person's legal status.

Rev. Al Sharpton is promising to come to Arizona to march, the New York Times says that the state has gone "off the deep end," and the Nazi references are flying. Los Angeles Cardinal Roger Mahony likened SB1070 to "German Nazi and Russian Communist techniques."

Riding the noise for political advantage, President Obama is summoning his Justice Department to look into the matter, saying that the law would "undermine basic notions of fairness that we cherish as Americans."

But 70 percent of Arizona residents support the law, according to Rasmussen.

What's going on here? Do we know something the rest of the country doesn't?

Actually, we do. Context is everything, and it'd be nice if the national media provided some, rather than simply slamming Arizona as a redneck haven filled with nativists and bubbas with a hankering for racial profiling.

An estimated 500,000 illegal aliens live in Arizona, and many are decent folks, to be sure. But the border is still wide open, and many more are coming. Last year in Border Patrol's 262-mile-wide Tucson Sector, agents arrested 241,000 illegal aliens, a drop of more than 130,000 from 2007.

It sounds great until you understand that gotaways outnumber arrests by three to one.

Does the country realize this, or have the people bought Janet Napolitano's political fairy tale that border security has been "transformed" from where we were in 2007?

As Obama lectures Arizona, citizens here await his decision on an urgent request to send three thousand National Guard troops to the border. Senators John McCain and Jon Kyl recently asked for soldiers, as did Democratic Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords, to bring some security to American citizens being hammered by cross-border smugglers and thugs.

Here's an important bit of context: This isn't your father's illegal immigration, when polite farm workers offered to do chores in return for some water and a sandwich as they walked north. Today, the drug cartels have taken over the people-smuggling business. They own the trails into the country and dominate the land, the same way urban gangs control neighborhoods

Any group wanting in has to deal with them, and the going rate is $2,500 per person. If you don't have the cash, the cartel coyote will offer to bring you in for free if you carry his dope. As Cochise County Sheriff Larry Dever testified to the Senate Homeland Security Committee last week, most of the groups coming up now have a gun behind them.

Along the Chiricahua Corridor smuggling route north and east of Douglas, Arizona, residents have been screaming for some time about break-ins, threats, intimidation, vandalism, and home invasions. But the feds did nothing to keep citizens safe. Instead, they talked amnesty. Then the inevitable happened.

On March 27, Cochise County rancher Rob Krentz was murdered on his land, presumably by a drug smuggler. The death occurred on a well-known drug trail, and trackers followed the killer's prints back into Mexico. He is still at large.

Now, I can't argue with those who say that SB1070 has some provisions that smack of desperation -- such as making it a crime to stop your car to pick up a day laborer or to enter a stopped car to get temporary work. That sounds impossible to enforce.

But critics also say that it will have no impact on besieged residents of southern Arizona, and I disagree. It could help.

We have a huge problem with crooks coming up from Mexico to our cities and towns, committing crimes, and bolting back south of the border. Not long ago, I wrote a story that backtracked the records of two of these border coyotes and found that between them, they'd been arrested and released by either law enforcement or the courts a total of 35 times.

One was let go after a traffic stop, and the other had worked construction in Phoenix for years. If this law had been in effect, the police might've been able to get them off the street before they were able to lead more groups into southern Arizona, break into homes, and frighten citizens.

Civil rights? What about the civil right of American citizens to drive up to their homes at night and have some reasonable assurance that no one is inside?

On March 31, four hundred people gathered outside the one-room Apache School to tell their elected reps what it's like to live in smuggler-occupied territory. The meeting was held there, in the cold, open air, in part because the nearest place to host a group that size inside was seventy round-trip miles away, and these folks didn't feel comfortable leaving their homes for that length of time.

They live by a rule of thumb: If you leave your house empty, it will be occupied by illegals or drug smugglers. We're not talking just about homes five miles from the international line. We're talking about homes up to sixty miles north of the border.

Racial profiling doesn't matter much when you're in a fight to preserve your way of life and keep your family and property safe. Let me give you a different perspective on racial profiling. Now, when Border Patrol chases down and arrests illegals south of I-10, everybody says, "Atta boy. Good police work."

But if these crossers put a toe north of I-10, they're home free. Except for Maricopa County Sheriff Joe Arpaio, nobody is looking for them, and if you do, it's racial profiling.

The farther you get from the line, the more people want to make this problem about race. It's the ground the left wants to fight on because it's so effective. Political correctness shuts people up and keeps the border open.

Arizona has had enough and seen enough. This bill, admittedly flawed, motivated in part by anger and frustration, is an effort to step in and do something about a serious national problem on our southern border that grows more dangerous all the time.

But the national media largely ignore it because it offers up the wrong victims and the wrong politics. They don't send reporters out to Arizona get the story, to walk the smuggling trails, to sit with beleaguered Americans at their kitchen tables and understand the torment their lives have become.

Instead, they adopt the preening pose of the self-righteous, screaming from a safe distance about the bubbas. All 70 percent of them.

It's more fun than context.

Leo W. Banks covers the border for Tucson Weekly
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...
 
More and more states are going to go this route unless/until the Federal Government is willing to fulfill their primary duty of protecting it's citizens.
 
These guys elected McCain over and over, too.
 
It's a sad state of affairs when a state has to act because the Federal Government has failed to do so, even though we pay tax dollars for them to do just that. It's even more sad when you realize the primary reason both parties have failed to act is fear of (no pun intended) alienating the Hispanic vote.
 
DEPORT 'EM ALL! LET MEXICO SORT 'EM OUT!

(lights fuse and runs away, laughing maniacally)
 
I'm fine with this so long as it's done to protect local citizens from genuine crime perpetrated by the illegals. I'm kinda fine with it if it is to make it harder forlocal businessmen to take jobs away from citizens and give them to illegals who they pay very little to under the table or as a drain on the local economy depriving citizens of basic services. But I'm not fine with it if just some sort of "get 'em back to Mexico" garbage.
 
Agree...and I don't know of many who are looking at this like "get the brownies out of our Amurrica!"

Seems that the only ones that should be peeved by this are the criminal ones. Documented (legal) immigrants have a much better opportunity at a quality standard of life than those being used to run drugs, do farming for sandwiches, etc.
 
Oddly enough, I think this is an excellent example of states rights in action.

A lot of people on the right say these illegals are taking hard-working American jobs and an unpaid burden on our social services. A lot on the left say they do jobs nobody wants, and the net impact on the economy is actually pretty positive. The two sides shout at each other year after year, solving nothing. Nothing happens on the federal level because nobody can agree on what to do (other than shout).

Well, now Arizona has decided to make a test case out of itself. Although I personally think it's bad policy, it's actually an interesting way to see what happens when you drive a ton of illegal immigrants (and probably some perfectly legal immigrants who are just pissed off) out of a state.

This is exactly the sort of thing the founders wanted when they set up this country. Fifty different states trying their own solutions, with the best ones being adopted by the rest. Particularly effective when federal policy hits a brick wall, as it has on this issue since the 1980's.

My prediction is that, assuming the law stands and is enforceable, a lot of hispanic communities just evaporate over the coming years, taking their businesses with them. The hardcore thugs will remain, because smuggling is too lucrative. So you'll have a lot of neighborhoods that used to be productive turn into boarded up buildings highlighted by sporadic violence. South Central LA meets Cleveland.

But I could be wrong, I admit. I guess we'll all get to see.
 
mook said:
Oddly enough, I think this is an excellent example of states rights in action.

A lot of people on the right say these illegals are taking hard-working American jobs and an unpaid burden on our social services. A lot on the left say they do jobs nobody wants, and the net impact on the economy is actually pretty positive. The two sides shout at each other year after year, solving nothing. Nothing happens on the federal level because nobody can agree on what to do (other than shout).

Well, now Arizona has decided to make a test case out of itself. Although I personally think it's bad policy, it's actually an interesting way to see what happens when you drive a ton of illegal immigrants (and probably some perfectly legal immigrants who are just pissed off) out of a state.

This is exactly the sort of thing the founders wanted when they set up this country. Fifty different states trying their own solutions, with the best ones being adopted by the rest. Particularly effective when federal policy hits a brick wall, as it has on this issue since the 1980's.

My prediction is that, assuming the law stands and is enforceable, a lot of hispanic communities just evaporate over the coming years, taking their businesses with them. The hardcore thugs will remain, because smuggling is too lucrative. So you'll have a lot of neighborhoods that used to be productive turn into boarded up buildings highlighted by sporadic violence. South Central LA meets Cleveland.

But I could be wrong, I admit. I guess we'll all get to see.
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+1

Rep'd
 
Curious, mook...why would someone who came to the US legally pack up and go b/c of this law? Not being hispanic, I don't have any idea...but is there some racial-bound solidarity that says you have to leave if the criminals are kicked out? And what's the problem with telling the illegal ones being deported "hey, you can come back if you go through the process"? How is that bad?

South Central LA meets Cleveland
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You mean like Detroit?
 
BrianFromWA said:
Curious, mook...why would someone who came to the US legally pack up and go b/c of this law? Not being hispanic, I don't have any idea...but is there some racial-bound solidarity that says you have to leave if the criminals are kicked out? And what's the problem with telling the illegal ones being deported "hey, you can come back if you go through the process"? How is that bad?
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Imagine you are a legal US citizen with two kids. Your girlfriend is illegal. Your mom also lives in Arizona legally, but she has an illegal for a boyfriend too. You own a small business.

You get stopped by a cop. You don't have a drivers license on you, so he takes you downtown. You get it cleared up, but suddenly you are scared for your squeeze and your mom's squeeze. (Where does that cop get off hauling you downtown on the way to a business meeting with a vendor anyway?) You look at your options:

You can both get married immediately, file the paperwork, and within about a year your new spouses will get legal residency. Until then, she's subject to deportation at any time. And although you love her, you're Catholic and it seems wrong to you to get married in a big rush without the proper big catholic wedding. And these fuckers in Arizona don't seem to want you or your kind here anyway.

Or you can say, "fuck it," and take your families and your business to Nevada. It's not much different of a place to live, and some of your friends have already moved there. Maybe get married and do the paperwork on your own timeline. You tell your two latino employees (you think they are legal, but who the hell knows if the documents were real) they have jobs if they want to follow you. So they do too.

You can't sell your house because you are underwater. So you default on the mortgage. The building you rented is now underwater too, because they can't find any new tenants. So it gets boarded up. Several buildings in the neighborhood have the same problem, and suddenly the people who had been happy, even the white citizens, panic and start moving too. It snowballs, and you get left with what I described. That's what I think will happen in Arizona.
 
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mook said:
Imagine you are a legal US citizen with two kids. Your girlfriend is illegal. Your mom also lives in Arizona legally, but she has an illegal for a boyfriend too. You own a small business.

You get stopped by a cop. You don't have a drivers license on you, so he takes you downtown. You get it cleared up, but suddenly you are scared for your squeeze and your mom's squeeze. (Where does that cop get off hauling you downtown on the way to a business meeting with a vendor anyway?) You look at your options:

You can both get married immediately, file the paperwork, and within about a year your new spouses will get legal residency. Until then, she's subject to deportation at any time. And although you love her, you're Catholic and it seems wrong to you to get married in a big rush without the proper big catholic wedding. And these fuckers in Arizona don't seem to want you or your kind here anyway.

Or you can say, "fuck it," and take your families and your business to Nevada. It's not much different of a place to live, and some of your friends have already moved there. Maybe get married and do the paperwork on your own timeline. You tell your two latino employees (you think they are legal, but who the hell knows if the documents were real) they have jobs if they want to follow you. So they do too.

You can't sell your house because you are underwater. So you default on the mortgage. The building you rented is now underwater too, because they can't find any new tenants. So it gets boarded up. Several buildings in the neighborhood have the same problem, and suddenly the people who had been happy, even the white citizens, panic and start moving too. It snowballs, and you get left with what I described. That's what I think will happen in Arizona.
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I don't see anything in your post that is specific to being an illegal alien, as opposed to just having done something illegal.
 
tumblr_l1yvnaHti11qzpwi0o1_r1_500.jpg
 
blazerboy30 said:
I don't see anything in your post that is specific to being an illegal alien, as opposed to just having done something illegal.
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And I'm sure legal residents who live in the neighborhoods boarded up will take great consolation in that. Just like I'm sure the average joe in Detroit rejoiced that the manufacturers of all those crappy cars finally got what was coming to them.

Yay! We got rid of all those law-breakers. They broke the law, and they paid the price. We win!

Hmmm. Now, what do we do with all these desolate neighborhoods? How come crime has actually gone up in these places? What happened to all the local property owners who used to watch out for their neighborhood? It's almost like there was some kind of massive vacuum, with no local tax dollars to pay for police services, and Mexican drug cartels completely took over.

It always amazes me that people who argue tax law has a massive impact on business and economic growth think immigration law has no impact on it.
 
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mook said:
And I'm sure legal residents who live in the neighborhoods boarded up will take great consolation in that. Just like I'm sure the average joe in Detroit rejoiced that the manufacturers of all those crappy cars finally got what was coming to them.

Yay! We got rid of all those law-breakers. They broke the law, and they paid the price. We win!

Hmmm. Now, what do we do with all these desolate neighborhoods? How come crime has actually gone up in these places? What happened to all the local property owners who used to watch out for their neighborhood? It's almost like there was some kind of massive vacuum, with no local tax dollars to pay for police services, and Mexican drug cartels completely took over.
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Sorry, I don't buy the reasoning of "We screwed up and let the problem get out of hand, therefore we won't take action on illegal activity because it might have some short-term negative impact".


mook said:
It always amazes me that people who argue tax law has a massive impact on business and economic growth think immigration law has no impact on it.
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I didn't see any posts in this thread stating anything close to this assumption. Nice strawman.
 
Let's throw all the pot smokers out of the country. They're breaking the law!
 
blazerboy30 said:
Sorry, I don't buy the reasoning of "We screwed up and let the problem get out of hand, therefore we won't take action on illegal activity because it might have some short-term negative impact".
.
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Dang. If you think cities like Detroit and Cleveland are experiencing "short-term negative impact" then we just fundamentally disagree. We're talking about entire communities just getting boarded up, and Mexican gangs having their choice of abandoned buildings to base their operations in.

I'm not opposed to immigration law reform. I just think the way Arizona has gone about it is just too costly for the benefit they get out of it.

It doesn't have to be this way. At some point people will come to their senses and realize that the choice is between:
1. amnesty combined with better border enforcement
2. destroying local economies by eviscerating them combined with better border enforcement

Solution #2 is more politically popular right now because it's the morally right answer. People did illegal stuff, and they should pay the price.

Solution #1 will eventually come in to favor when people realize that being morally right isn't always as important as doing what's most practical.

Arizona is finally moving this mess forward.
 
Denny Crane said:
Let's throw all the pot smokers out of the country. They're breaking the law!
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NO, you got that all wrong Denny. We should arrest everyone that LOOKS like a pot smoker, unless they can prove don't have any pot on them.
 
westnob said:
NO, you got that all wrong Denny. We should arrest everyone that LOOKS like a pot smoker, unless they can prove don't have any pot on them.
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No, YOU got it wrong. When pulled over for speeding, and there's a cloud of smoke and the cops find the pot, you get the punishment for it. See: Yellow Hummer, somewhere around Centralia.
 
mook said:
Dang. If you think cities like Detroit and Cleveland are experiencing "short-term negative impact" then we just fundamentally disagree. We're talking about entire communities just getting boarded up, and Mexican gangs having their choice of abandoned buildings to base their operations in.

I'm not opposed to immigration law reform. I just think the way Arizona has gone about it is just too costly for the benefit they get out of it.

It doesn't have to be this way. At some point people will come to their senses and realize that the choice is between:
1. amnesty combined with better border enforcement
2. destroying local economies by eviscerating them combined with better border enforcement

Solution #2 is more politically popular right now because it's the morally right answer. People did illegal stuff, and they should pay the price.

Solution #1 will eventually come in to favor when people realize that being morally right isn't always as important as doing what's most practical.

Arizona is finally moving this mess forward.
Click to expand...

Why the eff can't #1 happen with Arizona law? Or, more specifically, why can't these illegal immigrants currently in AZ trudge on down to the immigration office and say "Tarjeta verde, por favor?"
 
BrianFromWA said:
If that was what the punishment for the crime was--sure.
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What exactly is the crime here, and who are the victims? Realize that people break laws all the time (like my jaywalking example, and now pot smoking). Isn't that a form of nullification of the law by The People?

Seriously. These pot smokers are breaking the law. They're not doing it just once, but continually. Where's the outrage!
 
And I haven't seen a single local economy "eviscerated" by this law, though I have seen reports of people scared to leave their homes alone due to the illegal trespassers taking possession. And in general, being "legal" is good. Doing "illegal" things has negative impacts. Short- and long-term.
 
Denny Crane said:
What exactly is the crime here, and who are the victims? Realize that people break laws all the time (like my jaywalking example, and now pot smoking). Isn't that a form of nullification of the law by The People?

Seriously. These pot smokers are breaking the law. They're not doing it just once, but continually. Where's the outrage!
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Have you never seen me post in a "make marijuana legal" thread?
 
BrianFromWA said:
No, YOU got it wrong. When pulled over for speeding, and there's a cloud of smoke and the cops find the pot, you get the punishment for it. See: Yellow Hummer, somewhere around Centralia.
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Uh I don't think you understand the law in Arizona. "IF someone looks like an illegal immgirant" they don't have to be breaking any laws. IE a pothead that isn't smoking, or speeding, just looks like a stoner, would be the RIGHT one.
 
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