The Book of Mormon (the book, not the musical)

[crowTrobot]

How so?

karma in any non-trivial sense implies some sort of metaphysical connection between cause and effect

 

[TripTango]

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree then. I'm simply wired to think this way, and when you combine what I've said with the complexity of life and the human body and the faith it takes to believe that it all arose from a pile of goo, and that a Godless universe has no objective way to determine moral values of right and wrong, it's a slam dunk to me. No to mention that God has changed my life in a big way. But I guess that's what makes us human, we all think differently.

Like I said before, I don't begrudge you your belief in the slightest. Unknowns are scary, and the simple truth is that science doesn't give us very many solid answers regarding the origins of the universe -- at least not to the extent that religion does. I can tell you why it's not theoretically inconsistent to assume that time actually began with the universe, or how there's no physical reason not to believe that the universe will continue to expand forever, dying suns or no. But these are just statements of theoretical possibility, not definitive answers, and that's pretty much the best that science can do when it comes to the origins of the universe. It's enough for me.

You say that "something cannot come from nothing", and yet you have never established that there ever WAS nothing. You argue that since the universe seems to include the dimension of time that it must have been set into motion at some point in the past. But time itself is not objective. There isn't some magical watch ticking away at the center of the galaxies that everything else obeys. Time is relative -- it may speed up or slow down relative to other observers based on their respective speeds and accelerations. This concept is not mere conjecture; it's been supported by experiment time and time again (no pun intended), and we use the relevant equations to make corrections to the clocks in our satellites and space vessels. If the passage of time itself is relative and flexible, why is it so hard to accept the possibility that, before all of that mass started expanding, there simply was no time? This would mean that the universe literally existed since the beginning of time, and at no point in time was there ever nothing. (Again, this part IS just conjecture, not a formal creed.)

To me, proposing an omniscient, omnipotent, omnipresent god to answer the question of "how did the universe start?" is a bit like arguing that you need to buy a B-52 bomber because your Geo Metro is too small. Sure, it may get the job done, but nobody is going to convince me that it's necessary, and it raises more problems than it solves.

 

[3RA1N1AC]

please clear some things up for me jet or drock

so earths god is a human from the star system of kolob correct?

and there are countless planets being ruled by other gods correct?

and jesus is only applicable to earth? because he is the kolob guys son right? and satan was his other son?

and kolob god fucked his countless wives in outer space to populate the earth?

can women be gods?

anyone? is there a disconnect in what mormons believe, and what they will say they believe in public? is everything i asked just propaganda pushed by a christian nation?

please enlighten me

 

[SlyPokerDog]

anyone? is there a disconnect in what mormons believe, and what they will say they believe in public? is everything i asked just propaganda pushed by a christian nation?

please enlighten me

The first rule of star system of Kolob is there is no talking about star system of Kolob.

 

[crowTrobot]

anyone? is there a disconnect in what mormons believe, and what they will say they believe in public? is everything i asked just propaganda pushed by a christian nation?

never heard a scientologist explain Xenu either. seems to be a pattern.

 

[bigbailes]

the neighborhood where i grew up in vancouver had a lot of mormons it, our high school even had a "seminary" just off the campus, so i was exposed to it pretty often and still can't wrap my head around it. there seems to be a lot of things that many members choose to gloss over now instead of attempting to explain.

i did find the cartoon pretty funny and seemed to be similar to south parks "trapped in the closest" episode concerning scientology.

 

[crowTrobot]

the neighborhood where i grew up in vancouver had a lot of mormons it, our high school even had a "seminary" just off the campus, so i was exposed to it pretty often and still can't wrap my head around it. there seems to be a lot of things that many members choose to gloss over now instead of attempting to explain.

just like every other major religion

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Now Romney's cousin Park (I see awesome hair runs in the fam.) is bringing up the whole Book of Abraham hoax:

Romney’s cousin: Mormonism is a ‘fraud’

 

[JETBlack]

the neighborhood where i grew up in vancouver had a lot of mormons it, our high school even had a "seminary" just off the campus, so i was exposed to it pretty often and still can't wrap my head around it. there seems to be a lot of things that many members choose to gloss over now instead of attempting to explain.

i did find the cartoon pretty funny and seemed to be similar to south parks "trapped in the closest" episode concerning scientology.

Things such as? Go ahead and ask something. I've heard just about everything so try and surprise me.

 

[JETBlack]

Now Romney's cousin Park (I see awesome hair runs in the fam.) is bringing up the whole Book of Abraham hoax:

Romney’s cousin: Mormonism is a ‘fraud’

Ah, the Abraham thing again, you act like this is the first time this issue has come up. What's your question about it exactly?

 

[3RA1N1AC]

Things such as? Go ahead and ask something. I've heard just about everything so try and surprise me.

i asked these months ago and not even a sniff from either you or drock...

so earths god is a human from the star system of kolob correct?

and there are countless planets being ruled by other gods correct?

and jesus is only applicable to earth? because he is the kolob guys son right? and satan was his other son?

kolob guy fucked mary with his actual penis?

and kolob god fucked his countless wives with his actual penis in outer space to populate the earth?

can women be gods?

can black people be gods?

 

[JETBlack]

i asked these months ago and not even a sniff from either you or drock...

so earths god is a human from the star system of kolob correct?

and there are countless planets being ruled by other gods correct?

and jesus is only applicable to earth? because he is the kolob guys son right? and satan was his other son?

kolob guy fucked mary with his actual penis?

and kolob god fucked his countless wives with his actual penis in outer space to populate the earth?

can women be gods?

can black people be gods?

Ask like a grown up and maybe you'll get a response buddy. Which of these things did you get from scripture or from our general authorities? I have no interest in answering random questions about our doctrine according to someone outside our church. Cite the sources of your info and we can go from there.

 

[D-Rock]

Now Romney's cousin Park (I see awesome hair runs in the fam.) is bringing up the whole Book of Abraham hoax:

Romney’s cousin: Mormonism is a ‘fraud’

This article is suspect for a couple reasons. First, and foremost, I seriously doubt some internet news site got a quote from Jeffrey R. Holland about this. The church has their own public relations group that would address this if they even cared to do so, which they most likely would have nothing to say on the matter. If this is an actual quote from Elder Holland, I can almost guarantee that it was on a different subject matter and is simply being injected into the piece. There are all kinds of people who make claims like this. The leaders of the church would not personally comment on any of them. There would be an official statement that would come from the public relations office if there were any comment at all. Additionally, Elder Holland would likely not be the one to issue the statement. I suppose he could, but I'd be surprised if he did. Second, the fact that he used to be a High Priest isn't nearly as telling as I'm sure it's intended to make people believe. That position within the church doesn't hold the exclusivity people likely think it does. Most men are High Priest's by the time they reach 40-50 years old as long as they've been active in the church most of their lives. I don't write that to denigrate that office, but just to point out that it isn't exactly the equivalent of a bishop or cardinal in the Catholic Church in terms of exclusivity. My dad is a High Priest, as well as all my uncles, my father-in-law, and even a brother-in-law. Just to give some perspective.

 

[D-Rock]

i asked these months ago and not even a sniff from either you or drock...

so earths god is a human from the star system of kolob correct?

and there are countless planets being ruled by other gods correct?

and jesus is only applicable to earth? because he is the kolob guys son right? and satan was his other son?

kolob guy fucked mary with his actual penis?

and kolob god fucked his countless wives with his actual penis in outer space to populate the earth?

can women be gods?

can black people be gods?

You know, I really did intend to answer those questions. I got busy studying for the bar and completely forgot about it.

For now, I'll be brief in answering some of these. The others, I kind of agree with JET in that I'd rather they be asked with more respect regardless of the amount of respect you actually have for it. Be polite in your request and we'll politely explain. Mocking and denigrating things we hold dear isn't much of a way to get an explanation if you actually wanted one. You may have asked more respectfully originally, but I don't remember. If so, I apologize. At any rate, here are some brief answers to a few of your questions:

To be honest with you, I don't care to get into the Kolob stuff because I don't know much about it. In fact, you'd be hard pressed to find anyone that knows much about it. It's not discussed as part of any Sunday School lesson of "Sermon" that I've ever attended. So I can't really answer your question with official church doctrine; only speculation and personal opinion. I guess not being able to answer it is answer enough. There are a few scripture passages that talk about it, and that's as far as I'd go with calling anything about Kolob scriptural or doctrinal.

No, women cannot be Gods. They can be Goddesses though. Subtle difference. There are numerous scriptures relating to the prospect of Godhood. Some just choose to interpret the passages as figurative (although I'm not entirely certain how they could be taken figuratively).

Yes, all men may become a God, so that includes black men. (And black women may become Goddesses).

I intended to answer more of these, but I have to go. Hopefully I remember to do so later.

 

[JETBlack]

You know, I really did intend to answer those questions. I got busy studying for the bar and completely forgot about it.

For now, I'll be brief in answering some of these. The others, I kind of agree with JET in that I'd rather they be asked with more respect regardless of the amount of respect you actually have for it. Be polite in your request and we'll politely explain. Mocking and denigrating things we hold dear isn't much of a way to get an explanation if you actually wanted one. You may have asked more respectfully originally, but I don't remember. If so, I apologize. At any rate, here are some brief answers to a few of your questions:

To be honest with you, I don't care to get into the Kolob stuff because I don't know much about it. In fact, you'd be hard pressed to find anyone that knows much about it. It's not discussed as part of any Sunday School lesson of "Sermon" that I've ever attended. So I can't really answer your question with official church doctrine; only speculation and personal opinion. I guess not being able to answer it is answer enough. There are a few scripture passages that talk about it, and that's as far as I'd go with calling anything about Kolob scriptural or doctrinal.

No, women cannot be Gods. They can be Goddesses though. Subtle difference. There are numerous scriptures relating to the prospect of Godhood. Some just choose to interpret the passages as figurative (although I'm not entirely certain how they could be taken figuratively).

Yes, all men may become a God, so that includes black men. (And black women may become Goddesses).

I intended to answer more of these, but I have to go. Hopefully I remember to do so later.

It's pretty tiring trying to answer questions for people like this guy. He sounds like he already knows what he wants to believe regardless of what actual members tell him.

 

[LameR]

It's pretty tiring trying to answer questions for people like this guy. He sounds like he already knows what he wants to believe regardless of what actual members tell him.

There is the possibility that he, like most, simply don't know. Regardless of how respectful or disrespectful he asks those questions, it's helpful to a lot more people than just him to have answers from you guys for them. On top of that, focusing on the manner he asks the questions (disrespectful) rather than what the questions are can seem kinda disrespectful to others and a manner of avoiding those questions. Just food for thought. Definitely appreciate your input through this thread as I don't know a huge amount myself.

 

[THE HCP]

As somebody who was raised in the church and has not been back since I was 18, religion is just weird to me. If it helps you to stop being a drug addict or alcoholic...... More power to you. If it helps you be a better person or better father/husband ....... More power to you. But for people that actually believe this shit is real? Get a clue. They are stories created by people no different then you or me! Stories, that's it! There was no snake handing out apples or an old man cramming 2 of every living animal on earth on a boat! And when people get all defensive when somebody doesn't believe or respect the way they believe, sorry but that is bullshit! It's because of religion that the majority of our wars have started right? Can you understand that? People are actually killing other people over some fake ass bullshit stories! Like I said, if believing in this stuff makes you a better person, rock on...... Just realize what it is..... Nothing different then a fairy tale! -Peace be with you!

 

[3RA1N1AC]

It's pretty tiring trying to answer questions for people like this guy. He sounds like he already knows what he wants to believe regardless of what actual members tell him.

dont be shy guys, sing it from the rafters, and tell me how wrong i am. one of my buddies was LDS, and told me all this stuff. btw, his parents shunned him after he left the church, havent seen thier grandkids in 6 years

 

[HailBlazers]

As somebody who was raised in the church and has not been back since I was 18, religion is just weird to me. If it helps you to stop being a drug addict or alcoholic...... More power to you. If it helps you be a better person or better father/husband ....... More power to you. But for people that actually believe this shit is real? Get a clue. They are stories created by people no different then you or me! Stories, that's it! There was no snake handing out apples or an old man cramming 2 of every living animal on earth on a boat! And when people get all defensive when somebody doesn't believe or respect the way they believe, sorry but that is bullshit! It's because of religion that the majority of our wars have started right? Can you understand that? People are actually killing other people over some fake ass bullshit stories! Like I said, if believing in this stuff makes you a better person, rock on...... Just realize what it is..... Nothing different then a fairy tale! -Peace be with you!

Sounds like you could use a little Jesus in your life.

 

[THE HCP]

Sounds like you could use a little Jesus in your life.

Thanks for the offer, but I am very content with my life and family's beliefs. The first time I was in a church since I left home was for my grandfathers funeral down in So-Cal 3 years ago. That side of the fam is BIGTIME Mexican Catholic. Forgot how powerful religion can be.

 

[julius]

Sounds like you could use a little Jesus in your life.

who do you think mows his lawn?

 

[BLAZER PROPHET]

Yes, all men may become a God, so that includes black men. (And black women may become Goddesses).

I intended to answer more of these, but I have to go. Hopefully I remember to do so later.

What Biblical scripture do you cite for this?

 

[D-Rock]

What Biblical scripture do you cite for this?

To be clear, I did say "may," meaning we have the potential to become as God is. I did not say we all will. A lot of my reasoning is the natural evolution of the soul over eternities. I (we) believe that our spirits have always existed in some form. There was a war in Heaven before Adam and Eve were placed on the earth in which some spirits elected to follow Satan and some elected to follow God and Christ. Those those fought for God and Christ were blessed with the opportunity to come to Earth and gain physical bodies. We came to Earth to receive a physical body and experience mortal life. When we die, our spirits, which have always existed in some form, are separated from our physical bodies and go to (for simplicity purposes I'll use a general term) a "holding room" until they're resurrected and receive their final judgment and receive whatever glory they are entitled to. Having been resurrected, people will have bodies like that which Christ had when he showed himself to his apostles after his crucifixion. Those bodies are immortal (meaning we cannot die). What will we be doing with ourselves since we are no longer capable of death? Playing the harp on clouds? No, we will be doing substantially the same things we've been doing on Earth. In particular, we will continue to learn and progress toward perfection as we were commanded to do by Christ. "Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect." (Matt 5:48). At some point, after eons of time I'd say it would stand to reason that we could get to where God is now if we continue to work at it. We will never supplant God, just like we will never supplant our earthly father. I believe that God is not our Heavenly Father simply because he was our creator, but because we are His literal spiritual offspring. He is the father of our spirits -- our eternal beings. If this is so, we have at least some portion of Godliness in us, so we have the potential to become as God is.

Since you asked, I'll explain this with Biblical scriptures even though it would be clearer using both Biblical scripture and scripture from the Book of Mormon, Doctrine and Covenants, and/or Pearl of Great Price. I'm not sure why I should be confined to explain my beliefs and not use all the sources of where my beliefs come from. Seems a bit odd, but I'll oblige. This is King James Version, by the way, in case you were curious. Also, the bolding, underlining, and italicizing, are just for emphasis.

Pre-mortal Life

Job 38:4-7
4 Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.
5 Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?
6 Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;
7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?

(We were all pretty excited about the creation of the Earth and the prospects it held for us that we shouted for joy.)

Ecclesiastes 12:7
7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

(The definition of return, as I understand it, is to go back to a place you had previously been)

Jeremiah 1:4-5
4 Then the word of the Lord came unto me, saying,
5 Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.

Ephesians 1:3-4
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

War in Heaven

Revelation 12:7-9
7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

God as the literal father of our spirits

Hosea 1:10
10 Yet the number of the children of Israel shall be as the sand of the sea, which cannot be measured nor numbered; and it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people, there it shall be said unto them, Ye are the sons of the living God.

Numbers 16:22
22 And they fell upon their faces, and said, O God, the God of the spirits of all flesh, shall one man sin, and wilt thou be wroth with all the congregation?

Deuteronomy 14:1
1 Ye are the children of the Lord your God: ye shall not cut yourselves, nor make any baldness between your eyes for the dead.

Acts 17:28
28 For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.

Hebrews 12:9
9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?

Romans 8:16
16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

Psalms 82:6
6 I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.

Potential for Godhood

Genesis 3:22
22 ¶And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever: (Related side-note, interesting that God says, "as one of us." Who is he talking to? Himself? Or maybe there was someone else like God present with God when man was put on the Earth.)

Romans 8:16-17
16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

Psalms 82:6
6 I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.

John 10:34
34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?

Matthew 5:48
48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect. (Why give a commandment that we couldn't obey? Unless, there was some way it could eventually be achieved...)

1 John 3:2
2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

Revelation 3:21
21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.


I think this addresses your question. It might not if you were asking specifically about whether black people can become a god, but I assumed you just meant in general. If you were speaking of black people, then I give you Acts 10:34 - "Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:" I elected not to cite scripture for the post-mortal life statements I made since it didn't directly relate to your question.

 

[D-Rock]

As somebody who was raised in the church and has not been back since I was 18, religion is just weird to me. If it helps you to stop being a drug addict or alcoholic...... More power to you. If it helps you be a better person or better father/husband ....... More power to you. But for people that actually believe this shit is real? Get a clue. They are stories created by people no different then you or me! Stories, that's it! There was no snake handing out apples or an old man cramming 2 of every living animal on earth on a boat! And when people get all defensive when somebody doesn't believe or respect the way they believe, sorry but that is bullshit! It's because of religion that the majority of our wars have started right? Can you understand that? People are actually killing other people over some fake ass bullshit stories! Like I said, if believing in this stuff makes you a better person, rock on...... Just realize what it is..... Nothing different then a fairy tale! -Peace be with you!

While I respect your opinion (you see what I did there?), people have every right to feel disrespected when something they hold dear is mocked. Just because you've chosen to believe that it's all a bunch of stories and it doesn't have meaning to you doesn't mean everyone should treat the scriptures with such apathy. I'm sure you wouldn't like it if your wife or kids were truly mocked or disrespected. Why? Because you care about them. I know people joke about your wife all the time on this board, but I'm talking about actual mocking and ridiculing. I care about my religion and my scriptures. I'm not going to get all bent out of shape over someone disagreeing with me, but I can certainly feel disrespected when something I care about deeply is ridiculed and made light of. As I've exemplified, I haven't let it bother me, I just stated that a little more respect would be appreciated if people really wanted an answer to something. What teacher would respond kindly if a question was posed to them in the manner which those questions were posed? Anyway, that's neither here nor there...

 

[D-Rock]

dont be shy guys, sing it from the rafters, and tell me how wrong i am. one of my buddies was LDS, and told me all this stuff. btw, his parents shunned him after he left the church, havent seen thier grandkids in 6 years

How old is this buddy, and was he telling you this stuff while he was an active member of the church or since he's left the church? I ask because almost without fail the stuff you're asking about is used by people to pull members away from the church or for people who have chosen to leave the church for whatever reason to justify having left. It's like ex's. You loved the person at some point, but now you can't stand to say anything nice about them. The things you ask about, of course, have some aspects of truth to them (as all good propaganda does), but I'd be surprised if the information he relayed to you didn't have some negative bias in it. I'm sorry his family hasn't been very supportive of his decisions. Since I have no idea the details behind their situation, I don't offer the following commentary as an explanation, but merely what I've observed.

Mormon's are often viewed as an exclusive bunch, not willing to associate with non-Mormon's. I'd say that's a fairly true statement for the most part, but not for the reasons most people think. Anyone who thinks it's easy to be an active member of the LDS church has no idea what it means to be an active Mormon. We don't drink alcohol, coffee, most teas, and some Mormons don't drink caffeinated drinks. We don't have pre-marital sex. We go to church every Sunday for 3 hours (more if they have a particular assignment that requires it). We have a lay clergy, which means the church is run by the members of the church. That means we're in charge of giving the lessons and the sermons and everything else that a church does, and no one is paid to do it. We tithe 10%. We do not generally shop, work, or do other every day things on Sunday's. There is often at least one activity during the week that some member of the family attends. Most boys are active in Boy Scouts. The girls have their own program that they're involved in. This is a lot to handle in addition to working and education and other requirements of life. So we're generally busy people and really don't have a lot of time to build relationships with people that we don't naturally run into during the course of the many church activities and responsibilities. Additionally, because we have these standards and have been taught to avoid temptation, we try not to put ourselves in situations were we could break one of those standards. That's why you don't see too many active Mormon's at bars or clubs. For those of you that have kids or remember being kids, I'd imagine you are concerned about the people your kids choose as friends. That's not much different than what Mormon's do. I guess they just have a more rigid criteria for choosing their friends. I wouldn't say they think they're better than anyone, just that they don't want to put themselves in positions to do something they shouldn't.

Obviously that kind of thinking doesn't apply to your friend's family, so all I can say is Mormon's can be judgmental like everyone else. There is nothing in our doctrine that encourages shunning people, especially family. We should turn from sin, but love the sinner as our brother or sister.

 

[Eastoff]

As somebody who was raised in the church and has not been back since I was 18, religion is just weird to me. If it helps you to stop being a drug addict or alcoholic...... More power to you. If it helps you be a better person or better father/husband ....... More power to you. But for people that actually believe this shit is real? Get a clue. They are stories created by people no different then you or me! Stories, that's it! There was no snake handing out apples or an old man cramming 2 of every living animal on earth on a boat! And when people get all defensive when somebody doesn't believe or respect the way they believe, sorry but that is bullshit! It's because of religion that the majority of our wars have started right? Can you understand that? People are actually killing other people over some fake ass bullshit stories! Like I said, if believing in this stuff makes you a better person, rock on...... Just realize what it is..... Nothing different then a fairy tale! -Peace be with you!

I would not have guessed the HCP to be an agnostic/athiest!

 

[THE HCP]

I would not have guessed the HCP to be an agnostic/athiest!

I wish I knew what this meant.

 

[Eastoff]

I wish I knew what this meant.

Agnosticism is the view that the truth values of certain claims—especially claims about the existence or non-existence of any deity, but also other religious and metaphysical claims—are unknown or unknowable.

Atheism is, in a broad sense, the rejection of belief in the existence of deities. In a narrower sense, atheism is specifically the position that there are no deities.

via wikipedia

 

[3RA1N1AC]

The things you ask about, of course, have some aspects of truth to them (as all good propaganda does), but I'd be surprised if the information he relayed to you didn't have some negative bias in it.

appreciate the reply drock, and for the record, am not some kind of mormon hater, i couldnt care less what anybody wants to believe or not believe. i guess i really am looking for someone, ANYONE who is actually a mormon to address some of these claims, its like pulling teeth to hear what mormons actually believe in. ask a christian what they believe in and they will tell you. ask a muslim what they believe in, they will tell you. but with mormonism and scientology, its like they are too ashamed? shy? to just let everyone know what they 100%, no doubt about it, believe, when they are often the most devoted and steadfast in these said beliefs...and i find that strange i guess

 

[D-Rock]

appreciate the reply drock, and for the record, am not some kind of mormon hater, i couldnt care less what anybody wants to believe or not believe. i guess i really am looking for someone, ANYONE who is actually a mormon to address some of these claims, its like pulling teeth to hear what mormons actually believe in. ask a christian what they believe in and they will tell you. ask a muslim what they believe in, they will tell you. but with mormonism and scientology, its like they are too ashamed? shy? to just let everyone know what they 100%, no doubt about it, believe, when they are often the most devoted and steadfast in these said beliefs...and i find that strange i guess

That's interesting. Maybe it's the types of things you're asking about? I think Mormon's are generally willing to tell you what they believe, but I can also see a lot of them ignoring the types of questions you were asking because they get tired of responding to "anti-Mormon" stuff. I think that's what you saw in JET's response. Often I'll have people that will bring up these types of things for the sole purpose of telling me that Mormonism is crazy. I can't tell you how many people have told me I'm going to Hell and I worship Satan or I'm a bigot, or I make women subservient to me simply because they think they know what Mormon's believe and/or teach. Most of the time this comes from some excommunicated member who's angry at the church or someone like yourself that's talked to someone who's left the church. Generally, these people already have their mind made up and only want to bash, mock, or ridicule the church or my beliefs. It gets tiresome defending yourself constantly when people often have no real desire to learn and understand what I believe. What's the point of expending the energy if it's just going to go in one ear and out the other, or worse, in one ear, twisted and distorted, then out to someone else's ear? So I don't think it's matter of being ashamed, I think it's probably a combination of not knowing the answer to the types of questions you're asking because we really don't even discuss those things, or tired of trying to explain things to people who really don't have an interest in hearing what you say; only telling you you're wrong or crazy. Anyway, you're welcome...