The "Build Around Dame Vs Not" Myth?

[Hoopguru]

you keep talking about a "post-Dame" era

What I would like to see is the Blazers devote at least a full season to post-Olshey/CJ--->with-Dame era before throwing their hands in the air and giving up

IMO, it's dumb to advocate a post-Dame era to start now just because the trade deadline did not turn a below .500 team into a contender....but that sure as hell seems to be the gauge some of you are using

yeah, its going to take a few years to be in a position to POSSIBLY contend. Even then the road through the playoffs can be disappointing.

 

[UKRAINEFAN]

I don't agree with this at all. If your team isn't ready to compete with a salary and player like Butler, what's the point of acquiring him (especially when its going to cost you assets that you should be using to build your team?) Mediocrity is the absolute worst thing to be in the NBA



Little is our 2nd best player with untapped upside and he showed tremendous progression last year. I didn't say he was the 2nd coming of MJ, but you've got to start somewhere. It's pretty clear that one of the few paths we have to take is rebuilding around youth, who else would you suggest we build around if not him?



First of all, Vince Carter is a hall of famer, so yeah, he's worth building around. Secondly, Simons took four years because we drafted him, essentially, out of HS. In the absence of better options, the fact that he's young enough to be in this draft class and has shown a steady track of progression makes him worth being a player to build around.



I fail to see how these situations are at all similar. If we're trading Simons+ to get a PG/Butler level player to try and win with Dame, then fine. But even if our Cronin can somehow swing that (I'm not holding my breath), it would take a borderline miracle to make us a true title contender. As such, it doesn't seem unreasonable to consider options post-Dame trade at all.

For some reason the only response that came to my head is "I also have untapped upside!".

 

[glazeduck]

you keep talking about a "post-Dame" era

What I would like to see is the Blazers devote at least a full season to post-Olshey/CJ--->with-Dame era before throwing their hands in the air and giving up

IMO, it's dumb to advocate a post-Dame era to start now just because the trade deadline did not turn a below .500 team into a contender....but that sure as hell seems to be the gauge some of you are using

I'm not advocating for anything, simply acknowledging that there are really only 2 options and I'm not super optimistic about the Dame version.

 

[SharpesTriumph]

The "post-Dame era" will not begin until 2028 or later. There is a good chance for multiple NBA Championships with Dame in the next 5 years!

swish3 is back!

Probably need some positivity around here; we're not going to get it being a rational Blazers fan.

 

[SharpesTriumph]

Who said Cronin would EVER throw his hands in the air and give up? His job is to make us the most competitive as possible and that is what he will do. I've never seen a GM give up though.

GM's usually trade away distant assets for immediate veteran help. Screw the franchise and fan base long term but try to help their job the next year.

That or just sheer incompetence trading value for scrubs, overpaying terrible players.

Scary that we have seen a bit of the second, and could see more of both faults from Cronin this summer.

 

[wizenheimer]

Who said Cronin would EVER throw his hands in the air and give up? His job is to make us the most competitive as possible and that is what he will do. I've never seen a GM give up though.

your ability to read between line that weren't there in the first place is amazing, especially when the lines that were there were simply colloquial hyperbole

for damn sure some people are saying that they can't see a way that Portland can ever be a contender with Dame so the Blazers should just give up on that idea and trade Dame. That very point has been argued hundreds of times in this forum over the last few months

 

[SharpesTriumph]

you keep talking about a "post-Dame" era

What I would like to see is the Blazers devote at least a full season to post-Olshey/CJ--->with-Dame era before throwing their hands in the air and giving up

IMO, it's dumb to advocate a post-Dame era to start now just because the trade deadline did not turn a below .500 team into a contender....but that sure as hell seems to be the gauge some of you are using

That full season win with Dame idea was a fine line to take before the trade deadline when the Blazers had the assets to possibly build a winner around Dame. Still would have needed a series of great moves in order for that to happen. Unlikely but had a realistic possibility of happening.

But now the franchise lost 4 starters and replaced them with much lesser talent, and no picks or other assets. There is no realistic way to build a winner around Dame soon.

I'm fine if the Blazers want to do a stealth tank rebuild of getting lottery picks while Dame jacks up shots for a few years as Kobe did at the end of his career. But I don't see the point in going through a failed win now effort with Dame which sacrifices even more young players, picks, and assets.

The Blazers need to rebuild for when there is a chance to win, not do a bunch of win now moves around Dame that are more or less guaranteed to fail.

 

[SharpesTriumph]

for damn sure some people are saying that they can't see a way that Portland can ever be a contender with Dame so the Blazers should just give up on that idea and trade Dame. That very point has been argued hundreds of times in this forum over the last few months

Its basically the only point worth discussing with this franchise.

There is no way to build a contender now. Other years there were and we'd have hundreds of trade ideas improving the starting lineup. There are no discussions on this now because its not possible for the Blazers to do.

The only choice is do we trade Dame to help a rebuild or keep him around for some other purpose.

 

[glazeduck]

Its basically the only point worth discussing with this franchise.

There is no way to build a contender now. Other years there were and we'd have hundreds of trade ideas improving the starting lineup. There are no discussions on this now because its not possible for the Blazers to do.

The only choice is do we trade Dame to help a rebuild or keep him around for some other purpose.

Not to mention, now that we know how the lottery shook out, that's a pretty significant impact to the "build around Dame" strategy that's shot to hell. If you can't appreciate how things have changed in the last 48 hours, I don't know what to tell ya...

 

[PtldPlatypus]

There is no way to build a contender now. Other years there were and we'd have hundreds of trade ideas improving the starting lineup. There are no discussions on this now because its not possible for the Blazers to do.

The fact that you declare something to be so didn't necessarily make it so. I see you're passionate about this opinion, but it's still just an opinion.

 

[wizenheimer]

That full season win with Dame idea was a fine line to take before the trade deadline when the Blazers had the assets to possibly build a winner around Dame

LOL...you mean the "assets" that couldn't even help Dame beat an injured Denver team in last year's playoffs when Dame averaged 34 & 10; the "assets" that had propelled the Blazers to a record 13 games under .500 when Dame was unhealthy. Those were not the assets of a contender, they were very expensive but mediocre assets, and mediocre assets are not going to be exchanged for premium assets (unless Billy King is around)

But now the franchise lost 4 starters and replaced them with much lesser talent, and no picks or other assets fail.

geeeeezuz....the "4 starters" myth again

 

[wizenheimer]

I'm not advocating for anything

But even if our Cronin can somehow swing that (I'm not holding my breath), it would take a borderline miracle to make us a true title contender. As such, it doesn't seem unreasonable to consider options post-Dame trade at all.

I don't think Dame, Butler and a bunch of scraps is championship caliber, so why bother?.

If you don't believe that our future assets are enough to build a championship roster, why slog through another half decade of mediocrity and waste your most valuable asset's prime when you can restart and try again

Not to mention, now that we know how the lottery shook out, that's a pretty significant impact to the "build around Dame" strategy that's shot to hell. If you can't appreciate how things have changed in the last 48 hours, I don't know what to tell ya...

don't get angry glaze...just having some fun

I'm certainly willing to admit I'm advocating for the Blazers to at least try for a year or two to build around Dame

 

[Phatguysrule]

mediocre assets are not going to be exchanged for premium assets

Especially when many of those assets are overpaid...

 

[SharpesTriumph]

View attachment 47540



don't get angry glaze...just having some fun

I'm certainly willing to admit I'm advocating for the Blazers to at least try for a year or two to build around Dame

So do you want the Blazers to trade away young players and or draft picks to win now?

 

[Phatguysrule]

So do you want the Blazers to trade away young players and or draft picks to win now?

We're likely starting over in 2-3 years regardless of what happens now. We should make whatever moves we can to be as competitive as we can for the next 3 years.

Cronin knows that he will likely be fired in this time frame, so he is going to be aiming to make the biggest improvements possible over this time frame.

Expecting anything else is just setting yourself up to be disappointed.

 

[Hoopguru]

When do teams that are either reloading or rebuilding, know when they have a championship contender?

 

[tykendo]

When do teams that are either reloading or rebuilding, know when they have a championship contender?

When they start kicking every teams ass.

 

[SharpesTriumph]

We're likely starting over in 2-3 years regardless of what happens now. We should make whatever moves we can to be as competitive as we can for the next 3 years.

Cronin knows that he will likely be fired in this time frame, so he is going to be aiming to make the biggest improvements possible over this time frame.

Expecting anything else is just setting yourself up to be disappointed.

This is what I expect. But I also expect the Blazers to have 0 chance to contend during this period. So it's a very stupid delusional strategy in terms of building a team that one day may contend. Contending doesn't appear to be the goal.

I guess if your aim is to win a playoff game at all costs but with no chance to contend, ya know less than DameCJ accomplished, this strategy makes sense.

I can't fathom why fans want to give up youth and picks for that goal. But we all have our different preferences of what the Blazers should do.

 

[Hoopguru]

When they start kicking every teams ass.

Yeah agree thats an indicator its possible they could be. But you need to wait till playoffs to really see how close of a contender they are and that road is unpredictable.

 

[wizenheimer]

So do you want the Blazers to trade away young players and or draft picks to win now?

* I have said, in this forum, many times, I don't want the Blazers to trade their pick for Grant. But I would for players like Siakam or John Collins

* I'd certainly consider trading Little for any roster upgrade because I have no confidence he'll stay healthy

* but I also won't dance around the possibility of trading Simons. There are enough questions about the Dame/Ant pairing to warrant at least considering other options. And I would absolutely consider trading Simons before trading Dame.

 

[Phatguysrule]

This is what I expect. But I also expect the Blazers to have 0 chance to contend during this period. So it's a very stupid delusional strategy in terms of building a team that one day may contend. Contending doesn't appear to be the goal.

I guess if your aim is to win a playoff game at all costs but with no chance to contend, ya know less than DameCJ accomplished, this strategy makes sense.

I can't fathom why fans want to give up youth and picks for that goal. But we all have our different preferences of what the Blazers should do.

What we want doesn't matter. All of the incentives are there for the management and team to try and compete now.

We can be all pissed off about that and have a miserable few years or we can hope for the best. Those are our choices right now.

 

[glazeduck]

don't get angry glaze...just having some fun

I'm certainly willing to admit I'm advocating for the Blazers to at least try for a year or two to build around Dame

Not angry at all. Also not advocating for a rebuild, that's just the side of the topic that I think you're wrong-er about. There's a huge piece of me that would love to see us give Dame REAL weapons to compete with. He deserves it and I think this fanbase deserves it. I just don't have enough faith in Cronin, ownership, or our chips to cash to see it being successful.

Put it this way: if I could time travel 5 years from now and look back on this moment, I see the "rebuild around Dame" plan having a very low chance of success, and feel like we'd probably still be wallowing in mediocrity at that time. While it might not be enjoyable or have great odds of success either, I think a rebuild probably has at least slightly better chances of long-term success...

If I were to advocate for anything: I'd like to see them try to split the difference. Focus on acquiring young players who have at least some modicum of "win-now" ability OR players whos stock will likely increase. Give Dame one more year to see what he can do while healthy, and if that doesn't work, go all in on getting 1.1 next year and build around Wembanaya (definitely butchered that one). THAT'S what I'd be advocating for...

 

[wizenheimer]

If I were to advocate for anything: I'd like to see them try to split the difference. Focus on acquiring young players who have at least some modicum of "win-now" ability OR players whos stock will likely increase. Give Dame one more year to see what he can do while healthy, and if that doesn't work, go all in on getting 1.1 next year and build around Wembanaya (definitely butchered that one). THAT'S what I'd be advocating for...

which is essentially what I said in the OP

that being that at this point in time, the kind of talent that Portland is looking to put around Dame is the same kind of talent they would be looking for in a rebuild. Length, mobility, shooting, and defense

 

[SharpesTriumph]

What we want doesn't matter. All of the incentives are there for the management and team to try and compete now.

We can be all pissed off about that and have a miserable few years or we can hope for the best. Those are our choices right now.

I can root for the team and support or critize them however I want. Maybe you want to hope for the best and leave it at that... whatever your choice. But when the team does good or bad decisions I'll comment on it.

Maybe I'm a bit grouchy now, same as many many Blazer fans, since Cronin did huge franchise altering trades that setup the team to fail for the years ahead.

 

[SharpesTriumph]

which is essentially what I said in the OP

that being that at this point in time, the kind of talent that Portland is looking to put around Dame is the same kind of talent they would be looking for in a rebuild. Length, mobility, shooting, and defense

If the Blazers rebuild they don't need any of those specific attributes. They would need talent, and can create the final starting lineups years later when the talent matures.

 

[Mediocre Man]

I can root for the team and support or critize them however I want. Maybe you want to hope for the best and leave it at that... whatever your choice. But when the team does good or bad decisions I'll comment on it.

Maybe I'm a bit grouchy now, same as many many Blazer fans, since Cronin did huge franchise altering trades that setup the team to fail for the years ahead.

We should have stayed status quo since that was so successful

 

[SharpesTriumph]

We should have stayed status quo since that was so successful

We should have done moves that improve the team. Not change for the sake of change that sacrifices talent, saves money, and leaves no realistic way to add talent back.

 

[Mediocre Man]

We should have done moves that improve the team. Not change for the sake of change that sacrifices talent, saves money, and leaves no realistic way to add talent back.

Our lottery pick
The Bucks pick
The TPE
Our cap space


All realistic ways to add talent back…..maybe even talent that compliments Dame

 

[SharpesTriumph]

Our lottery pick
The Bucks pick
The TPE
Our cap space


All realistic ways to add talent back…..maybe even talent that compliments Dame

We don't have cap space.

TPE rarely provide the value of a second round pick.

We traded away 4 starters and got a Milwaukee pick 3 years from now, Hart and Didi. Would much rather have those assets back to remake the roster this summer.

Even at that prior talent point we were as you say a middling playoff team. Instead, now with less talent we're one of the if not the least talented team in the NBA.

 

[RR7]

We traded away 4 starters and got a Milwaukee pick 3 years from now, Hart and Didi.

I would thought we'd have had a much better record than we did starting 6 players instead of thr normal 5.
Other than that, disagree with the whole post, but it's just going to repeat the same stuff over and over, so no real point.