Event The Case for Drafting Tyler Bey

[Rastapopoulos]

NBA.com Draft Profile
"Colorado's Tyler Bey displays high basketball IQ with defense, passing"
Apparently my last thread was so intimidating it put other people off posting theirs, so I'll make this one a bit more slapdash.
Basically: "the other" Bey is a 6'7, 215lbs power forward who excels at defense. He lead the Pac-12 in rebounding this past season and was voted Pac-12 Defensive player of the year (like Matisse Thybulle last year). I think Thybulle is a fair comparison for him: they're similar in size and, like Thybulle, he's athletic and versatile. I think he can guard larger players perhaps more effectively than Thybulle, but he has excellent footspeed, and can easily handle perimeter players on a switch.
PROS:
Defensive monster, incredibly versatile, great rebounder. Should be able to come in and play minutes right away.
CONS:
on the older end of players in the draft (he'll be 23 in February)
Not tall for someone who's played in the frontcourt - can he play PF in the pros?
Would he duplicate Wenyen Gabriel? Or possibly Jaylen Hoard/Nassir Little?
If we took him at 16, it's higher than anyone has him projected.
He wasn't highly recruited out of high school (unlike, say, Nas).

One sentence case for him: We were shit defensively, particularly on the perimeter, and we need some nastiness, and he provides both, and clearly has an incredible motor.

 

[Scalma]

A much better idea than Terry, even if he’ll need time to develop his shot.

 

[Labinot41]

What about Saddiq Bey? He looks like he can play immediately in the NBA. Good body, very athletic, and can shot the 3

 

[Chris Craig]

Jamal Bey

Bey Bey Bey Bey Bey

 

[PCmor7]

NBA.com Draft Profile
"Colorado's Tyler Bey displays high basketball IQ with defense, passing"
Apparently my last thread was so intimidating it put other people off posting theirs, so I'll make this one a bit more slapdash.
Basically: "the other" Bey is a 6'7, 215lbs power forward who excels at defense. He lead the Pac-12 in rebounding this past season and was voted Pac-12 Defensive player of the year (like Matisse Thybulle last year). I think Thybulle is a fair comparison for him: they're similar in size and, like Thybulle, he's athletic and versatile. I think he can guard larger players perhaps more effectively than Thybulle, but he has excellent footspeed, and can easily handle perimeter players on a switch.
PROS:
Defensive monster, incredibly versatile, great rebounder. Should be able to come in and play minutes right away.
CONS:
on the older end of players in the draft (he'll be 23 in February)
Not tall for someone who's played in the frontcourt - can he play PF in the pros?
Would he duplicate Wenyen Gabriel? Or possibly Jaylen Hoard/Nassir Little?
If we took him at 16, it's higher than anyone has him projected.
He wasn't highly recruited out of high school (unlike, say, Nas).

One sentence case for him: We were shit defensively, particularly on the perimeter, and we need some nastiness, and he provides both, and clearly has an incredible motor.

Biggest issue with either of the Beys is that they're superfluous as this roster currently is comprised. We have so many guys who can play the 3-4: Hood, Ariza, Little, Gabriel, Melo, Hoard ... you even have Trent as a 2-3 and Collins as a 4. The Beys don't seem to be a clear upgrade and both are pretty much finished products.

Tyler Bey also has been a guy who was projected as a late first rounder last year, dropped to an early second rounder in mocks and now seems to be rebounding to a spot in the 20s.

If the Blazers were looking to go this route, why wouldn't you instead go with Patrick Williams, who already is considered worthy of a higher pick and is among the players with the most upside in the draft?

 

[TBpup]

What about Saddiq Bey? He looks like he can play immediately in the NBA. Good body, very athletic, and can shot the 3

I like Saddiq Bey or his teammate Williams. Both will likely be gone by the time Portland picks at #16.

 

[TBpup]

Biggest issue with either of the Beys is that they're superfluous as this roster currently is comprised. We have so many guys who can play the 3-4: Hood, Ariza, Little, Gabriel, Melo, Hoard ... you even have Trent as a 2-3 and Collins as a 4. The Beys don't seem to be a clear upgrade and both are pretty much finished products.

Tyler Bey also has been a guy who was projected as a late first rounder last year, dropped to an early second rounder in mocks and now seems to be rebounding to a spot in the 20s.

If the Blazers were looking to go this route, why wouldn't you instead go with Patrick Williams, who already is considered worthy of a higher pick and is among the players with the most upside in the draft?

Easy fix....trade CJ (try to bring back more length) and have Trent at SG.

Ariza, (short term/old)
Melo (old)
Hood (recover from that injury does not usually go well)
Little (hopefully he develops)
Hoard (not expecting much out of a #13-15 guy)

We need a legit SF....somehow.

 

[tester551]

NBA.com Draft Profile
"Colorado's Tyler Bey displays high basketball IQ with defense, passing"
Apparently my last thread was so intimidating it put other people off posting theirs, so I'll make this one a bit more slapdash.
Basically: "the other" Bey is a 6'7, 215lbs power forward who excels at defense. He lead the Pac-12 in rebounding this past season and was voted Pac-12 Defensive player of the year (like Matisse Thybulle last year). I think Thybulle is a fair comparison for him: they're similar in size and, like Thybulle, he's athletic and versatile. I think he can guard larger players perhaps more effectively than Thybulle, but he has excellent footspeed, and can easily handle perimeter players on a switch.
PROS:
Defensive monster, incredibly versatile, great rebounder. Should be able to come in and play minutes right away.
CONS:
on the older end of players in the draft (he'll be 23 in February)
Not tall for someone who's played in the frontcourt - can he play PF in the pros?
Would he duplicate Wenyen Gabriel? Or possibly Jaylen Hoard/Nassir Little?
If we took him at 16, it's higher than anyone has him projected.
He wasn't highly recruited out of high school (unlike, say, Nas).

One sentence case for him: We were shit defensively, particularly on the perimeter, and we need some nastiness, and he provides both, and clearly has an incredible motor.

One of my favorites for this draft. However, I'd like to trade down just a bit to pick him up ~#20-#22.

My other targets would be:
1) Tyrese Halliburton (elite catch & shoot, and moves the ball on offense. Very high BBIQ -> could see him being a slightly better SGA type)
2) Devin Vassell (defensive monster at SG)
3) Tyler Bey (the wing 3 & D player that we need)
4) Jalen Smith (best looking PF in the late 1st area)
5) Malachi Flynn (perfect backup PG from the 2nd round)
6) Paul Reed

Obviously we would have to trade up to get Halliburton or Vassell. We should have the opportunity to select at least 2 of the other 4 players.

 

[tester551]

I like Saddiq Bey or his teammate Williams. Both will likely be gone by the time Portland picks at #16.

Who does D69 like in our range? He's usually very good at identifying productive players.

Biggest issue with either of the Beys is that they're superfluous as this roster currently is comprised. We have so many guys who can play the 3-4: Hood, Ariza, Little, Gabriel, Melo, Hoard ... you even have Trent as a 2-3 and Collins as a 4. The Beys don't seem to be a clear upgrade and both are pretty much finished products.

Tyler Bey also has been a guy who was projected as a late first rounder last year, dropped to an early second rounder in mocks and now seems to be rebounding to a spot in the 20s.

If the Blazers were looking to go this route, why wouldn't you instead go with Patrick Williams, who already is considered worthy of a higher pick and is among the players with the most upside in the draft?

We have lots of guys who CAN play the 3-4, but very few who are GOOD at playing the 3-4.

Trent should be a 2, and occasionally a 3.
Hood is recovering from injury, but again should primarily be a 2/3, and occasionally play the 4.

Little - until he develops an outside shot, he's too small to play the 4 & not good enough to play the 3. Who knows what will happen there.
Ariza is old, but is a 3, that can occasionally play the 4.

Melo is a FA. I wouldn't bring him back unless it was for the minimum.
Hoard has some skill potential, but seems to react very slowly to the plays & is not fluid. He'd be OK to have for development, but I'm not sure he's more than a 13-15 man NBA player.

Gabriel is the only one that I see potential to be a contributor at the 3/4 position beyond next year. I definitely want to see him develop more.

 

[Labinot41]

I like Saddiq Bey or his teammate Williams. Both will likely be gone by the time Portland picks at #16.

Damn

 

[lawai'a]

One of my favorites for this draft. However, I'd like to trade down just a bit to pick him up ~#20-#22.

My other targets would be:
1) Tyrese Halliburton (elite catch & shoot, and moves the ball on offense. Very high BBIQ -> could see him being a slightly better SGA type)
2) Devin Vassell (defensive monster at SG)
3) Tyler Bey (the wing 3 & D player that we need)
4) Jalen Smith (best looking PF in the late 1st area)
5) Malachi Flynn (perfect backup PG from the 2nd round)
6) Paul Reed

Obviously we would have to trade up to get Halliburton or Vassell. We should have the opportunity to select at least 2 of the other 4 players.

too bad you can't combine smith and reed. i would have them reversed as even though smith was much better from 3p range last year, his defense in space seems to make him more of a 5/4. reed IMHO fits the modern 4 on defense and will likely get better from distance if his FT percentage may be used to gauge potential.

 

[PCmor7]

Who does D69 like in our range? He's usually very good at identifying productive players.


We have lots of guys who CAN play the 3-4, but very few who are GOOD at playing the 3-4.

I thought I answered this a couple of times before, but my feeling is that neither of the Beys are significant upgrades over what we already have if they even are upgrades at all. We have a lot of similar players not just in type but ability already playing their positions. We definitely lack quality depth at guard and in the paint. We've got a zillion wings in the average to slightly above average ability range ... the Beys are the same thing.

If you are thinking of drafting the Beys, I think you're better off trading the 16th pick for a vet. The only other option is clearing out the position on our roster to address our other needs and then picking a combo forward.

 

[Scalma]

One of my favorites for this draft. However, I'd like to trade down just a bit to pick him up ~#20-#22.

My other targets would be:
1) Tyrese Halliburton (elite catch & shoot, and moves the ball on offense. Very high BBIQ -> could see him being a slightly better SGA type)
2) Devin Vassell (defensive monster at SG)
3) Tyler Bey (the wing 3 & D player that we need)
4) Jalen Smith (best looking PF in the late 1st area)
5) Malachi Flynn (perfect backup PG from the 2nd round)
6) Paul Reed

Obviously we would have to trade up to get Halliburton or Vassell. We should have the opportunity to select at least 2 of the other 4 players.

I think Jalen Smith would be the perfect selection.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

If the Blazers were looking to go this route, why wouldn't you instead go with Patrick Williams, who already is considered worthy of a higher pick and is among the players with the most upside in the draft?

1. Just because I'm making a case for Bey doesn't mean I wouldn't do it for Williams
2. But I think Williams will be gone by our pick (composite draft has him at 12)
3. Williams is much more of a gamble. He probably has a higher ceiling, but he also has higher bust potential. I'm salivating if he really is the next Kawhi, but Kawhi was a GREAT rebounder, whereas Williams is suprisingly anemic (just over 6 per 36)

 

[Rastapopoulos]

I think Jalen Smith would be the perfect selection.

Put your money where your mouth is (and make a thread).

 

[Rastapopoulos]

I thought I answered this a couple of times before, but my feeling is that neither of the Beys are significant upgrades over what we already have if they even are upgrades at all. We have a lot of similar players not just in type but ability already playing their positions. We definitely lack quality depth at guard and in the paint. We've got a zillion wings in the average to slightly above average ability range ... the Beys are the same thing.

This is a fair point (and one I made in my OP). Let's leave Trent out of this, because he's now a franchise cornerstone but is 6'4"ish. We were forced to put him on LeBron, and he scrapped like hell, but that's not ideal. So let's look at what we have:
Ariza: old as dirt, gone this Summer or the next
Nas: a good deal shorter than either Bey
Wenyen: we would have laughed at considering him as a reason not to draft anyone before the bubble. Has he really done enough to cement his position? For sure he's more like Tyler than Saddiq - Saddiq has guard-like skills and shoots >40% from 3. But Tyler is thicker than Wenyen and (my eyeballs tell me) more athletic.
Mario: don't make me laugh (he's gone - please?)
Hoard: did he really show that much in the G-League or the bubble? He only played in the last game because everyone else was out. I think both Beys are better than him.
Collins, Hood: both injured, Hood's more of a guard and Collins is looking depressingly injury-prone.

In conclusion: I think players like the Beys are valuable because (a) they are versatile (they can play more than one position) and (b) because with all the players we had, we still sucked ass at defense. Even if we had players like them, you can always have more (unlike players who can only play one position). (c) I think both Beys have an attitude we lack. With Tyler it's toughness - Trent has it, but who else? With Saddiq, it's commitment to winning. He's won at every level - I get the impression he'd be a great lockerroom guy.

We definitely lack quality depth at guard and in the paint.

The guard issue will only come up if CJ or Dame get injured, because Stotts is gonna play them the bulk of the minutes WHOEVER we have on the roster. Throw Trent in there, and Hood when he's healthy and our need is at backup PG. See Terry, Tyrell. Also, I really do think that Jaylen Adams was signed with an eye to the future, and is probably more of a "sure thing" given what he showed in the G-League than a lot of the PGs we'd be looking at. (Tempted by Theo Maledon, tho.)

 

[PCmor7]

1. Just because I'm making a case for Bey doesn't mean I wouldn't do it for Williams
2. But I think Williams will be gone by our pick (composite draft has him at 12)
3. Williams is much more of a gamble. He probably has a higher ceiling, but he also has higher bust potential. I'm salivating if he really is the next Kawhi, but Kawhi was a GREAT rebounder, whereas Williams is suprisingly anemic (just over 6 per 36)

I'm not arguing or discounting your opinion. I'm just giving mine.

And yes, Williams might be more of a gamble (although I honestly think Tyler Bey is a pretty big gamble, too, and Saddiq Bey's athleticism might not play significantly at the next level); I would just say that Williams isn't a significantly bigger gamble and has a great deal more upside IMO. He's been all over the mock draft board, too, generally from 10-20. Tyler Bey would be a reach at 16 but someone you could trade down to 20 and almost certainly still get.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

I'm not arguing or discounting your opinion. I'm just giving mine.

What if they contradict each other? Disagreement is fine, too - I'm not emotionally invested in any draft opinion!

And yes, Williams might be more of a gamble (although I honestly think Tyler Bey is a pretty big gamble, too, and Saddiq Bey's athleticism might not play significantly at the next level); I would just say that Williams isn't a significantly bigger gamble and has a great deal more upside IMO. He's been all over the mock draft board, too, generally from 10-20. Tyler Bey would be a reach at 16 but someone you could trade down to 20 and almost certainly still get.

I haven't seen Williams available at our pick for a while now. Of course, he could drop, and if it was a choice between him and (Tyler) Bey then I think the vast majority of GMs would definitely go for Williams. He's definitely a bigger gamble just because he's a lesser-known commodity. One year, and a bench player at that. I think a lot will depend on his workouts and interviews, which, of course, we don't get to see.

Agree that Saddiq Bey's athleticism has been questioned, as well as his ability to get past people. But similar things have been said about guys who went on to thrive (Draymond a key example of course). And I'm drawn in particular to smart players because I think smarts makes up for lack of athletic gifts (see Joe Ingles, for example, or our own CJ).

 

[tlongII]

I have no idea. I don’t watch a lot of college hoops until March Madness which didn’t happen.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

 

[BBert]

too bad you can't combine smith and reed. i would have them reversed as even though smith was much better from 3p range last year, his defense in space seems to make him more of a 5/4. reed IMHO fits the modern 4 on defense and will likely get better from distance if his FT percentage may be used to gauge potential.

So basically you'd have this:

 

[BigGameDamian]

How about Deni Avdija?

 

[TBpup]

@tester551 ..D69 likes Saddiq Bey and his teammate Williams. That is where I got that from. He thinks Bey is better now but that Williams has higher potential down the road.

 

[damianlillard]

If we get either of the Bey I would be so happy. Saddiq is more of an all around SF who can do a little bit of everything. But nothing elite. While Tyler is an elite defender and a solid rebounder. His offensive game does need work. But in our offense he just need to at least develop a corner 3. Patrick Williams would be cool, but I don’t trust our development system. And the last time we took a guy who didn’t start on his college team turned out a meh.
Now about the complaints about how we shouldn’t draft a forward. People have said it and I am gonna say it now. Trent is a 2 who can occasionally guard 3. Same thing with Hood but he’s coming back from a devastating injury and was never a good defender to begin with. Ariza is a 3 who is only getting older and we don’t even know if he’s coming back. If we do bring him back then he would be a good mentor for any young forwards. Little is still developing. Hoard belong in the G league. Gabriel is nice but a long away from being ready. And about back up PG, CJ got that covered especially with the rise of Trent. And we got Nurkic and Collins in the paint. We just need a vet there not a developing big man there. And lastly I much rather take a chance on the next Kawhi, next Draymond Green of the world than the next Ibaka, next Embiid of the world. Elite wings are more important than elite big men in today’s nba

 

[damianlillard]

How about Deni Avdija?

He’s an interesting prospect. He’s either a boom or bust type prospect. Either could be a hedo or Mario. He got the potential to be very good at literally almost everything. But he’s not consistent like at all. So I think his career will be more like batum

 

[tester551]

@tester551 ..D69 likes Saddiq Bey and his teammate Williams. That is where I got that from. He thinks Bey is better now but that Williams has higher potential down the road.

Bey went to Villanova. I believe you're talking about Patrick Williams who went to Florida State. William's teammate is Vassell (who I really like), not Bey...

 

[TBpup]

Bey went to Villanova. I believe you're talking about Patrick Williams who went to Florida State. William's teammate is Vassell (who I really like), not Bey...

Yes, that's it. He was talking about all of them and I got their teams confused. He likes all 3 for different reasons.

Good catch.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

 

[RR7]

That's an ugly looking form on that jump shot. Pushes it right from his face.

 

[BonesJones]

Tyler Bey has a poor jumpshot, mediocre athleticism, and got outplayed by almost every high level matchup he went against. His defense is okay but he struggled against bigger, more athletic players, the likes of which he'll face in the NBA. He's not worth a first round pick, let alone #16.