OT The Death Penalty

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Are you for or against the death penalty?

  • For

    Votes: 1 8.3%

  • Against

    Votes: 4 33.3%

  • Depends on the circumstance

    Votes: 7 58.3%
  • Total voters
    12

Users who are viewing this thread

Total: 1 (members: 0, guests: 1)
SlyPokerDog said:
But that's not what you said. You used a specific example/concern about mass shooters.

I think all prisoners that are abducted by aliens and anally probed should be sent to live in Florida after they are returned to earth.
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10 twisted murderers who were freed then killed again (monstersandcritics.com)
Plea of Insanity - Can you get away with Murder? (lawbriefcase.com)
Top 10 Most Notorious Insanity Defense Cases - Listverse
There are many, many cases of these to be found. I think the point I was making is absolutely on target. If you read my reply to your original question I said no....off hand I couldn't but there are examples of it throughout history.
 
riverman said:
10 twisted murderers who were freed then killed again (monstersandcritics.com)
Plea of Insanity - Can you get away with Murder? (lawbriefcase.com)
Top 10 Most Notorious Insanity Defense Cases - Listverse
There are many, many cases of these to be found. I think the point I was making is absolutely on target. If you read my reply to your original question I said no....off hand I couldn't but there are examples of it throughout history.
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You were using mass shooters as an example, not murderers.
 
didn't get much sleep. trying to drown myself in work as a distraction.

i made the mistake of reading this idiot's manifesto last night that made me feel worse.

might take a while for this community to get past this. can only imagine what the families of the victims are feeling.
 
SlyPokerDog said:
You were using mass shooters as an example, not murderers.
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mass shooters are murderers but you can dissect it into whatever category you like...my first example was mobsters ...hit men ..of course not all murderers are mass murderers but the point doesn't change as to the loopholes in the justice system that allow killers to kill again ..mass killers or not...in this case it's a mass killer. He's dead but if he survived I'd want him executed without delay. I support the death penalty for killers who are without a doubt guilty of intentionally killing innocent people.
 
SlyPokerDog said:
I think all prisoners that are abducted by aliens and anally probed should be sent to live in Florida after they are returned to earth.
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Really? Any particular reason?
 
SlyPokerDog said:
3 dead, including suspect, and 2 police officers injured in Phoenix shooting
The suspect, who was wearing a “carrier-type” tactical vest and Kevlar helmet, emerged from a hotel, randomly started shooting at the business and tried to throw a Molotov cocktail at some point, police said.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna45217
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Is this going to be everyday now?
 
Chris Craig said:
Is this going to be everyday now?
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This has been the case in the US for our entire existence. It happens less frequently now than it did pre 1990s. There has been a significant uptick since 2008, as US citizens have had less and less security.
 
riverman said:
again...we're not talking about INNOCENT PEOPLE wrongly convicted...I don't think anyone convicted with any reasonable doubt around the case should be executed so stop changing the topic...I'm talking about killers you and I know killed innocent people....what about the innocent victim's rights? Their families rights?
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I understand you're talking about a perfect world where mistakes aren't made. I'm saying we don't live in that world, and so I don't support the government having that power. If we did live in that world and then gave the government that power I suspect that would be the end of said perfect world.

That is not a power government should have, IMO. Just lock them up for life.

I don't see how the government killing the person helps the victim or their family at all. Most of these people are hoping for suicide by cop anyway. Why help them complete their goal? Why not take their freedom for their entire life?
 
ABM said:
Well, then, you'd be misinformed. Yet another overblown conspiracy theory.
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How else do you explain Florida Man? It's the only thing that makes sense... that, and possibly incest...
 
Phatguysrule said:
You did though. You may not have meant to, but that would be the result of what you're asking for.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wrongful_convictions_in_the_United_States


Since 1973, at least 190 people who had been wrongly convicted and sentenced to death in the U.S. have been exonerated.
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No I plainly and clearly did not mention anything about wrongfully convicted felons. Just because you are able to infer something, doesn't mean that that is what was said. That's just you putting words in someones mouth.
If you want to play symantics, have at it. Im pretty sure everyone in this convo knew we were all talking about proven murderers like the OP of the thread is about.
Only you are trying to spin this convo into something it clearly was not, evidenced by the responses to your questions about wrongfully accused felons. Everyone here is talking about correctly convicted murderers/mass murderers.

Come join the conversation we are having about them bro!!!! Or you can continue discussing some other topic about wrongfully accused convicts, which is not what any of us meant, as far as i can tell. :cheers:
 
BlazerBender said:
No I plainly and clearly did not mention anything about wrongfully convicted felons. Just because you are able to infer something, doesn't mean that that is what was said. That's just you putting words in someones mouth.
If you want to play symantics, have at it. Im pretty sure everyone in this convo knew we were all talking about proven murderers like the OP of the thread is about.
Only you are trying to spin this convo into something it clearly was not, evidenced by the responses to your questions about wrongfully accused felons. Everyone here is talking about correctly convicted murderers/mass murderers.

Come join the conversation we are having about them bro!!!! Or you can continue discussing some other topic about wrongfully accused convicts, which is not what any of us meant, as far as i can tell. :cheers:
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You are discussing a world that doesn't exist. How about you guys start discussing reality? This is a fairly important topic.

What you are discussing is a reality which cannot exist. You can't give the government power to kill people quickly without them abusing it or fucking it up and killing innocent people.
 
Phatguysrule said:
You are discussing a world that doesn't exist. How about you guys start discussing reality? This is a fairly important topic.
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Okay. The reality is the death penalty can be invoked for clearly Nd undoubtedly guilty people. Aka. Video evidence, etc.

There are instances where it can be factually proven someone committed a mass murder and in those instances we can invoke a quick and just death for the convicted murderer.
What is not living in reality is expecting nothing to fall through the cracks, like you are insinuating.
You are right. Nothing IS perfect. But that is no reason to allow clear cut mass murderers to live. It doesn't have to be black and white and we can dissect each case individually and assign the proper punishment accordingly. Including a quick death where deemed appropriate.
 
Phatguysrule said:
You are discussing a world that doesn't exist.
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You are denying extenuating circumstances and the fact that I'm talking about people YOU AND I both know are guilty....Mark David Chapman who killed John Lennon is free today....in my world...he'd have been killed within a few weeks of murdering John Lennon. That's a real world that exists. If you think Mark David Chapman didn't kill John Lennon in cold blood then you can be his lawyer. We know he did. That's a fact. Not up for debate. Today he's walking freely in the world...you know who isn't? John Lennon. Do you think Yoko needs to see him in Safeway buying groceries and be forgiving?
 
BlazerBender said:
Okay. The reality is the death penalty can be invoked for clearly Nd undoubtedly guilty people. Aka. Video evidence, etc.

There are instances where it can be factually proven someone committed a mass murder and in those instances we can invoke a quick and just death for the convicted murderer.
What is not living in reality is expecting nothing to fall through the cracks, like you are insinuating.
You are right. Nothing IS perfect. But that is no reason to allow clear cut mass murderers to live. It doesn't have to be black and white and we can dissect each case individually and assign the proper punishment accordingly. Including a quick death where deemed appropriate.
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There is a reason to allow them to live. There have been multiple people eelvery year sentenced to death who are found to be free. How many innocents have been unable to prove their innocence before we wrongfully had them terminated?

Horrifying to think about. That could be you. Could be me. Not a freak accident, or crazy person. But our own government killing innocent people.

If we can't trust government to kill only guilty people we should let them live out their lives in prison so they can be set free if evidence that they are not guilty comes to light.

There is literally no reason to kill them. If they are in jail they are not a threat to society.
 
riverman said:
You are denying extenuating circumstances and the fact that I'm talking about people YOU AND I both know are guilty....Mark David Chapman who killed John Lennon is free today....in my world...he'd have been killed within a few weeks of murdering John Lennon. That's a real world that exists. If you think Mark David Chapman didn't kill John Lennon in cold blood then you can be his lawyer. We know he did. That's a fact. Not up for debate. Today he's walking freely in the world...you know who isn't? John Lennon. Do you think Yoko needs to see him in Safeway buying groceries and be forgiving?
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There is no world that exists in which we can allow government that power, yet prevent them from killing innocent people.

I'd gladly allow a murderer to go free if it would save an innocent person from being killed by the government. No hesitation.

We can at least watch the murderer.
 
Phatguysrule said:
There is a reason to allow them to live. There have been multiple people eelvery year sentenced to death who are found to be free. How many innocents have been unable to prove their innocence before we wrongfully had them terminated?

Horrifying to think about. That could be you. Could be me. Not a freak accident, or crazy person. But our owners government killing innocent people.

If we can't trust government to kill only guilty people we should let them live out their lives in prison so they can be set free if evidence that they are not guilty comes to light.

There is literally no reason to kill them. If they are in jail they are not a threat to society.
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He's not talking about people who have not been caught red handed but people who have been convicted by a jury....different scenario. All of us who are supporting the death penalty are limiting that to demonstrable evidence of murder....not botched detective work.
 
Phatguysrule said:
There is no world that exists in which we can allow government that power, yet prevent them from killing innocent people.

I'd gladly allow a murderer to go free if it would save an innocent person from being killed by the government. No hesitation.

We can at least watch the murderer.
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You've never served in the military because that world does exist. I will never "gladly" allow a murderer to go free.
 
riverman said:
He's not talking about people who have not been caught red handed but people who have been convicted by a jury....different scenario. All of us who are supporting the death penalty are limiting that to demonstrable evidence of murder....not botched detective work.
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It's not worth it to me. That power can too easily be abused. There is no reason to kill them.

And there is no way to do it cheaper than keeping them alive, while also allowing them their right to due process.

What you are suggesting can't happen. It just can't. And we'd gain nothing if it could.
 
Phatguysrule said:
There is no world that exists in which we can allow government that power, yet prevent them from killing innocent people.

I'd gladly allow a murderer to go free if it would save an innocent person from being killed by the government. No hesitation.

We can at least watch the murderer.
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Sure there is. You can both follow through quickly with death sentences for those who there is absolute proof they killed people and hold off on cases that are questionable.

That's very possible.
 
riverman said:
You've never served in the military because that world does exist. I will never "gladly" allow a murderer to go free.
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The military kills innocent people as well.

And no, I wouldn't subject myself to an authoritarian government like the military without extreme incentive. Nor would I recommend anybody else to do so.
 
Phatguysrule said:
There is a reason to allow them to live. There have been multiple people eelvery year sentenced to death who are found to be free. How many innocents have been unable to prove their innocence before we wrongfully had them terminated?

Horrifying to think about. That could be you. Could be me. Not a freak accident, or crazy person. But our owners government killing innocent people.

If we can't trust government to kill only guilty people we should let them live out their lives in prison so they can be set free if evidence that they are not guilty comes to light.

There is literally no reason to kill them. If they are in jail they are not a threat to society.
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Are you reading the response you get to this? It doesn't seem like you are.
Yes there is a reason to kill them. So it doesn't costs as much.
Before you claim it costs less, read the thread first please. Its been addressed. As was this concern of yours you keep claiming about wrongfully accused.
Listen. Some of us feel that if someone has been caught red handed committing a mass murder, their life should be ended quickly. No one that i have read said anything about wrongfully convicted. AGAIN we are only discussing clear cut, black aNd white, guilty murderers. That is the only thing i see people referring to. Why you keep taking those words and spinning them fore whatever purposes is, well, that's on you.
if a person is gunning people down, is tackled and taken into custody and convicted, some of us feel they should die. If you want to try to make us feel guilty of that thought because there are some wrongfully convicted people over our countries history and pull some moral superiority card on us/me. Have at it. I stand by my claim that some people deserve nothing more than a quick death.
 
Chris Craig said:
Sure there is. You can both follow through quickly with death sentences for those who there is absolute proof they killed people and hold off on cases that are questionable.

That's very possible.
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Not against their will. Not without violating their rights.
 
Phatguysrule said:
It's not worth it to me. That power can too easily be abused. There is no reason to kill them.

And there is no way to do it cheaper than keeping them alive, while also allowing them their right to due process.

What you are suggesting can't happen. It just can't. And we'd gain nothing if it could.
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It can abused yes, and like all power in the government it needs to be checked and balanced.
 
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