The Final Word On Obama's Birth Certificate

[BrianFromWA]

It goes a bit the other way, though. I seem to remember a fringe of the right defending President Bush by calling his progressive detractors traitors and things. I'm sure it's not the same fringe, but the Left does not have a stranglehold or monopoly on hypocracy.

 

[Stevenson]

The problem is that a Certificate of Live Birth isn't the same as a Long Form Birth Certificate, and that's what Donald Trump and his ilk are demanding to see.

Blah blah blah. Like so many people here, it appears you didnt even bother to read the article in question before forming your opinion.

This is from Politifact, part of the series above posted, for which they won a Pulitzer (maybe that is tainted too!!!!):

"When we spoke to a spokeswoman for the Hawaii Department of Health, she said too much was being made of the difference between the so-called "long" and "short" forms. "They're just words," said spokeswoman Janice Okubo. "That (what was posted on the Internet) is considered a birth certificate from the state of Hawaii."

"There's only one form of birth certificate," she said, and it's been the same since the 1980s. Birth certificates evolve over the decades, she said, and there are no doubt differences between the way birth certificates looked when Obama was born and now. "When you request a birth certificate, the one you get looks exactly like the one posted on his site," she said. "That's the birth certificate." "

 

[maxiep]

Blah blah blah. Like so many people here, it appears you didnt even bother to read the article in question before forming your opinion.

This is from Politifact, part of the series above posted, for which they won a Pulitzer (maybe that is tainted too!!!!):

"When we spoke to a spokeswoman for the Hawaii Department of Health, she said too much was being made of the difference between the so-called "long" and "short" forms. "They're just words," said spokeswoman Janice Okubo. "That (what was posted on the Internet) is considered a birth certificate from the state of Hawaii."

"There's only one form of birth certificate," she said, and it's been the same since the 1980s. Birth certificates evolve over the decades, she said, and there are no doubt differences between the way birth certificates looked when Obama was born and now. "When you request a birth certificate, the one you get looks exactly like the one posted on his site," she said. "That's the birth certificate." "

I read it.

Note that they're quoting that it's been the same since the 80s. Was Obama born in the 1980s? He was born in 1961.

Also note that it's what Hawaii releases when someone requests a copy of the birth certificate. Why doesn't Hawaii release the original copy? It's the way Hawaii does things, but that still doesn't answer a simple question. They have his original birth certificate. Why not head down to a copy machine and end the discussion? I have no doubt that a birth certificate in the State of New Jersey looks different now than it did when I was born there. If someone wanted to see my original birth certificate, the State of New Jersey would have a copy of one created the day I was born.

Finally, they're not just words. But you, of course, know that, because you're a lawyer and you know words have import and meaning.

 

[Stevenson]

Hey, I'm a recovering lawyer! I came to my senses.

 

[maxiep]

Hey, I'm a recovering lawyer! I came to my senses.

LOL! Repped!

 

[PapaG]

This is quite silly. The fact is that the Democrats did not go around making these claims to the degree that the Republicans do - and to suggest they would have if the press did not is putting words into their mouths. Maybe they would have, maybe they would not have. The facts are that they did not.



" I started as a Republican, and I finished as a Republican. That’s where I want to be.”"

http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=42306

He is also saying that he plans to try and win the republican nomination.

http://content.usatoday.com/communi...ld-trump-2012-presidential-race-bill-cosby-/1

"The concern is if I don't win will I run as an independent, and I think the answer is probably yes."

At this point - he is a republican and plans to try to win the republican nomination. As long as the Republican party does not try to wash their hands from him - the statement is factually correct.

"I am a Republican," Trump said of his party affiliation. "I would run as a Republican, yes."

http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-brief...lks-up-possible-gop-run-for-president-in-2012

My attention to detail tells me that Trump has not officially announced as a GOP candidate for President, nor has he filed the appropriate filings with the FEC. Maybe you saw those details elsewhere?

 

[BrianFromWA]

my wife said yesterday that she'd heard that Trump's required to not announce candidacy while his show is on the air (something about advertising laws). So he's waiting until the end of Celebrity Apprentice to formally announce it, whichever party he goes with.

Now that's secondhand info, and she probably got it from Fox or CNN, b/c I'm pretty sure Nina on Sprout or the HGTV designers didn't say it, and that's all the TV goes on when I'm not home

 

[PapaG]

Blah blah blah. Like so many people here, it appears you didnt even bother to read the article in question before forming your opinion.

This is from Politifact, part of the series above posted, for which they won a Pulitzer (maybe that is tainted too!!!!):

"When we spoke to a spokeswoman for the Hawaii Department of Health, she said too much was being made of the difference between the so-called "long" and "short" forms. "They're just words," said spokeswoman Janice Okubo. "That (what was posted on the Internet) is considered a birth certificate from the state of Hawaii."

"There's only one form of birth certificate," she said, and it's been the same since the 1980s. Birth certificates evolve over the decades, she said, and there are no doubt differences between the way birth certificates looked when Obama was born and now. "When you request a birth certificate, the one you get looks exactly like the one posted on his site," she said. "That's the birth certificate." "

That's an easily disproven lie.

Susan Nordyke's Certificate of Live Birth from Kapiolani Hospital dated August 5, 1961.

Barack Obama's Certification of Live Birth from (Obama claims) Kapiolani Hospital dated August 4, 1961.

Certificate of Live Birth from a person born in 1981 at Kapiolani who requested their Certificate of Live Birth in March 2011.

See, that was easy.

 

[PapaG]

Researching this Birther stuff brings some great comedy.

There is a faction of the Birther movement that is convinced that the name on Barry's Certificate of Live Birth is actually Steve Dunham. LOL!

http://www.google.com/search?q="ste...s=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a

 

[PapaG]

1963 Hawaii Certificate of Live Birth, copy of which was requested in 1998.

But, they got a Pulitzer!! :MARIS61:

 

[barfo]

That's an easily disproven lie.

See, that was easy.

That was a pretty silly post. Maybe you should have read this part of what she said:

Birth certificates evolve over the decades, she said, and there are no doubt differences between the way birth certificates looked when Obama was born and now.

So congratulations, you've proven her correct.

barfo

 

[PapaG]

That was a pretty silly post. Maybe you should have read this part of what she said:

Um, I posted a "birth certificate" from the day after Obama was born, at the same hospital. Hawaiian BC's "evolved" in one day from a detailed and hand-written document to something that looks like it was printed with MicroSoft Word, and then back to hand-written and differently titled documents in 1963?

There are two different documents in Hawaii, the Certification of Live Birth (long form, hand-written, very detailed, hospital and attending physician listed), and the Certificate of Live Birth (short form, very few details, including no hospital), which is why I bolded the words Certificate and Certification. I do appreciate you sharing your ignorance with me, though. That was neat. Do I get a Pulitzer now?

So congratulations, you've proven her correct.

barfo

Funny how everybody but Obama can get their hands on a hand-written Certification of Live Birth, isn't it?

 

[barfo]

Um, I posted a "birth certificate" from the day after Obama was born, at the same hospital. Hawaiian BC's "evolved" in one day from a detailed and hand-written document to something that looks like it was printed with MicroSoft Word, and then back to hand-written and differently titled documents in 1963?

Obviously not. Nor would they be likely to put "Rev 11/01" in the corner of a document used in 1963. It's completely obvious that Obama's is not the original written-in-1963 document, but rather a reissue from a much later time. If that was what you were trying to prove, congratulations.

There are two different documents in Hawaii, the Certification of Live Birth (long form, hand-written, very detailed, hospital and attending physician listed), and the Certificate of Live Birth (short form, very few details, including no hospital), which is why I bolded the words Certificate and Certification.

Wow. Exciting stuff.

Funny how everybody but Obama can get their hands on a hand-written Certification of Live Birth, isn't it?

Funny how you think it matters what format he presents his birth certificate in.

barfo

 

[PapaG]

Obviously not. Nor would they be likely to put "Rev 11/01" in the corner of a document used in 1963. It's completely obvious that Obama's is not the original written-in-1963 document, but rather a reissue from a much later time. If that was what you were trying to prove, congratulations.

That's not what was written in Stevenson's post, though. Stick to fart jokes.

Wow. Exciting stuff.

Factual, too! On the other hand, your continued snark isn't masking your ignorance on the subject.

Funny how you think it matters what format he presents his birth certificate in.

barfo

I never said it mattered. Logic, however, would say that Hawaii should have an original copy of the hand-written Certificate of Live Birth.

If you can't beat 'em, mock 'em.

A very stupid post, even considering it came from you.

 

[barfo]

I never said it mattered. Logic, however, would say that Hawaii should have an original copy of the hand-written Certificate of Live Birth.

The state of HI says they do have it.

barfo

 

[PapaG]

The state of HI says they do have it.

barfo

So there are two forms, which is what I said.

See, that was easy.

Thanks for proving me correct.

 

[Minstrel]

So there are two forms, which is what I said.

Thanks for proving me correct.

Two forms that are considered the same in the eyes of Hawaii. Which is what the woman you were supposedly arguing with said.

 

[PapaG]

Two forms that are considered the same in the eyes of Hawaii. Which is what the woman you were supposedly arguing with said.

Try to get a passport with that HI Certification of Live Birth.

 

[barfo]

Try to get a passport with that HI Certification of Live Birth.

I don't think that would work too well, since the passport agency will probably recognize the name Barack Obama and notice that I'm not him.

But why do you think Obama couldn't (or didn't) get a passport with that document? Seems like it meets the requirements.

barfo

 

[Minstrel]

Try to get a passport with that HI Certification of Live Birth.

As I've posted earlier in this thread, "short-form" certifications are functionally equivalent to "long-form" certificates in almost every case, as long as the parents' names are on it. Which they are, on Obama's.

If you're saying that getting a passport falls outside the "almost every case," feel free to provide evidence.

 

[PapaG]

As I've posted earlier in this thread, "short-form" certifications are functionally equivalent to "long-form" certificates in almost every case, as long as the parents' names are on it. Which they are, on Obama's.

If you're saying that getting a passport falls outside the "almost every case," feel free to provide evidence.

The evidence is out there. Plus, wouldn't the ~$2 million that Obama has spent on fighting the release of the long form have been better spent feeding poor children? I guess I don't understand why the President of the United States, who campaigned on transparency, would spend so much money fighting a rather routine request. I suppose I can understand why he won't release his college transcripts (unlike Bush/Kerry/Gore/McCain/Clinton), but an original copy of a birth certificate is something I can reach into my desk drawer and produce right now, and it includes the hospital and the attending physician.

Why not just authorize the release? It would shut up a lot of fools. Before Trump, I liked mocking the Birthers, and there are some hilarious conspiracy theories out there (Steve Dunham; Malcom X's love child; LMAO), but at some point, a rational person asks 'is he hiding something'? I'm beginning to think he is, and I don't believe a word out of the guy's mouth at this point.

 

[Minstrel]

Why not just authorize the release? It would shut up a lot of fools. Before Trump, I liked mocking the Birthers, and there are some hilarious conspiracy theories out there (Steve Dunham; Malcom X's love child; LMAO)

Out of curiosity, why has Trump turned you around on the issue? He's talked about bombshell investigations, but certainly hasn't provided anything new.

And as has been noted, there's plenty of supporting evidence that Obama was born in Hawaii, like announcement in the local newspaper. To believe that Obama was not really born in Hawaii, you'd have to believe that his parents (or some other group) knew he'd be running for President decades into the future and therefore ran a massive conspiracy on behalf of a newborn. That's up there with "Truther" conspiracy theories in terms of plausibility.

 

[PapaG]

Out of curiosity, why has Trump turned you around on the issue? He's talked about bombshell investigations, but certainly hasn't provided anything new.

I'm not turned around on the issue. I just had never really researched it, and Trump's bombastic claims got me interested. Turns out that my limited intellect and research skills have me now seeing some smoke, if not a fire.

And as has been noted, there's plenty of supporting evidence that Obama was born in Hawaii, like announcement in the local newspaper.

Well, when my kids were born, you could call into the paper to announce the birth. No birth certificate was required. Same with my marriage announcement.

To believe that Obama was not really born in Hawaii, you'd have to believe that his parents (or some other group) knew he'd be running for President decades into the future and therefore ran a massive conspiracy on behalf of a newborn. That's up there with "Truther" conspiracy theories in terms of plausibility.

Those are good points. I think he was born in Hawaii. It seems ridiculous that there would be a fake birth announcement.

Another possibility is that Obama was born in Hawaii, but there is other information on the actual detailed certificate of birth that would contradict his books/speeches/childhood meme.

Well, in this case, the answer is simple. Obama could just release his long form BC to the media, as Bush did with his ANG documents when questions of his service dominated the newscasts.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

The evidence is out there. Plus, wouldn't the ~$2 million that Obama has spent on fighting the release of the long form have been better spent feeding poor children? I guess I don't understand why the President of the United States, who campaigned on transparency, would spend so much money fighting a rather routine request. I suppose I can understand why he won't release his college transcripts (unlike Bush/Kerry/Gore/McCain/Clinton), but an original copy of a birth certificate is something I can reach into my desk drawer and produce right now, and it includes the hospital and the attending physician.

Why not just authorize the release? It would shut up a lot of fools. Before Trump, I liked mocking the Birthers, and there are some hilarious conspiracy theories out there (Steve Dunham; Malcom X's love child; LMAO), but at some point, a rational person asks 'is he hiding something'? I'm beginning to think he is, and I don't believe a word out of the guy's mouth at this point.

But we're not done with The Donald. On Sunday, he also questioned why Obama "has spent over $2 million in legal fees" to keep quiet and hidden the issue of his place of birth. Turns out Trump was relying on a conservative Web site, which had tracked FEC filings that show Obama's campaign has spent $2 million on all legal fees since 2009. (John McCain;s campaign has spent $1.3 million since the 2008 election.)

http://www.oregonlive.com/politics/index.ssf/2011/04/donald_trump_and_sarah_palin_o.html

 

[PapaG]

But we're not done with The Donald. On Sunday, he also questioned why Obama "has spent over $2 million in legal fees" to keep quiet and hidden the issue of his place of birth. Turns out Trump was relying on a conservative Web site, which had tracked FEC filings that show Obama's campaign has spent $2 million on all legal fees since 2009. (John McCain;s campaign has spent $1.3 million since the 2008 election.)

http://www.oregonlive.com/politics/index.ssf/2011/04/donald_trump_and_sarah_palin_o.html

What other court cases are there against him? Plus, I don't consider MediaMatters a legitimate news source. Plus, it would be illegal for "Obama's campaign" to use campaign funds to cover expenses for personal civil cases.

There are dozens of court cases pending on this issue. Many have already been in front of a judge. An active member of the military is now sitting in jail because he refused orders based on a vetting of Obama's BC.

I don't know what else to tell you Obama defenders. Why won't the President just release his original, hand-written long-form birth certificate?

 

[SlyPokerDog]

What other court cases are there against him? Plus, I don't consider MediaMatters a legitimate news source.

It's the Oregonian and the Washington Post.

 

[Natebishop3]

Sure. There's no question but what if the tables were turned there would be many people calling for Bush's birth certificate (or, perhaps, for his national guard records, which are actually slightly more relevant, since Bush was a supposed adult at the time. Pretty sure Obama, wherever he was born, had no choice about the location.)



Not at all. It is stupid. It's incredibly stupid. It's something that just doesn't matter.



The man currently holds the most important job in the country, and you think the location where he emerged from the womb is somehow relevant? Aside from the technical rule of law which people are hoping to catch him on, what difference does it actually make where he was born?

Plus, of course, it is obvious to anyone who isn't a nutcase that he actually was born in Honolulu, the newspaper clippings are sufficient evidence of that.

barfo

I would contend that it does matter and it's extremely relevant. The entire reasoning behind the law is to defend the office and the country from someone with dishonorable intentions. Our government has been infiltrated before by clandestine operatives. I was watching a documentary on the Manhattan project and they said that the Russians had been able to get so deep into our government that they were aware of the first successes of Manhattan before Truman was. In today's world of sleeper cells and espionage, we need to at least be able to prove that someone was born here before they take over the most important singular office in our government. A Supreme Court Justice is vetted before they're approved, why shouldn't the PotUS be similarly vetted before he takes office? I don't care if it's a Republican or Democrat, it's not stupid or trivial to ask them to provide proof of where they come from.

 

[PapaG]

It's the Oregonian and the Washington Post.

No, it was first reported by Soros-funded Media Matters, and those are op-ed articles from the Oregonian and WaPo.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

No, it was first reported by Soros-funded Media Matters, and those are op-ed articles from the Oregonian and WaPo.

You're mistaken, it might have been reported by Media Matters but what is reported on WaPo is not an op-ed.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...and-sarah-palin/2011/04/11/AFrme2MD_blog.html


And to address your post above that you changed I'm a republican. Always have been. I just think that this subject is redonkulas.

 

[PapaG]

You're mistaken, it might have been reported by Media Matters but what is reported on WaPo is not an op-ed.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...and-sarah-palin/2011/04/11/AFrme2MD_blog.html


And to address your post above that you changed I'm a republican. Always have been. I just think that this subject is redonkulas.

The Obama campaign can't use funds for civil cases against Obama.

I also wonder why it is ridiculous? It's a distraction, sure, and not relevant to Obama's terrible (IMO) policies, but it is factual in that there are long-form Certifications of Birth from one day before Obama was born, and from the same hospital. A military member is in jail over Obama's refusal to release his BC to the media.

Why not just release it, and why keep spending money to hide it?

Also, here is the title from the WaPo article you posted.

More ‘birther’ nonsense from Donald Trump and Sarah Palin
By Glenn Kessler

That's an op-ed article, and an op-ed headline. Read the comments.