The Government Owns the Means of Production

[BTOWN_HUSTLA]

That is all.

Carry on.

 

[TradeNurkicNow]

Well it looks like somebody went to college

 

[speeds]

The proletarians have nothing to lose but their chains.

 

[Minstrel]

Change!

 

[Rodolfo]

Change!

FAIL!

 

[maxiep]

FAIL!

Agreed. This government is failing on every conceivable level.

 

[Minstrel]

FAIL!

He's failed to create American socialism, as my flag represented? I tend to agree.

 

[Rodolfo]

Agreed. This government is failing on every conceivable level.

That's like pissing on the flag. Not cool. If you're gonna' do something like that, put it in Obama's hands.

 

[¹²³]

 

[Sug]

I guess those of you that fear Obama better arm yourselves and start the revolution.

Good luck Red Dawn!

Here is the government's weapon

Here is your's

 

[Stevenson]

That is all.

Carry on.

99% of all business in this country is small business. Of the 27 million businesses here, more than 26 million have less than 100 employees, and 20 million have 1 employee - the owner.

Your comment is both factually wrong, and silly.

 

[BTOWN_HUSTLA]

99% of all business in this country is small business. Of the 27 million businesses here, more than 26 million have less than 100 employees, and 20 million have 1 employee - the owner.

Your comment is both factually wrong, and silly.

My comment is correct. The Government owns the means of production of a major industry in the United States...that of General Motors. They have a marked conflict of interest and bias to favor contracts with GM, due to the fact that they are owners of the company...which is the primary critique of a government that owns the means of production...by them having a stake in the company they own, other companies are less competitive and will not have the same advantages (i.e. Government backed vehicle warranty).

 

[barfo]

My comment is correct. The Government owns the means of production of a major industry in the United States...that of General Motors.

GM is not an industry. GM is a company.

barfo

 

[BTOWN_HUSTLA]

GM is not an industry. GM is a company.

barfo

yes, but they are a major stakeholder in the american automotive industry.

the point is that the government shouldn't be in the business of owning and running companies in competition with actual functioning companies and corporations.

 

[barfo]

yes, but they are a major stakeholder in the american automotive industry.

the point is that the government shouldn't be in the business of owning and running companies in competition with actual functioning companies and corporations.

It isn't in that business. This is a special case, obviously. Of all the companies in the US, very few of them needed and qualified for a government bailout.

All this "oh my god socialism" stuff is going to look pretty silly in a couple of years when the government dumps its stock in GM (probably at a loss, and probably with plenty of charges of cronyism) and is back out of the auto business.

barfo

 

[BTOWN_HUSTLA]

It isn't in that business. This is a special case, obviously. Of all the companies in the US, very few of them needed and qualified for a government bailout.

All this "oh my god socialism" stuff is going to look pretty silly in a couple of years when the government dumps its stock in GM (probably at a loss, and probably with plenty of charges of cronyism) and is back out of the auto business.

barfo

Uhh...yes, it is in that business. Say there's an open bid for a fleet of government cars....what do you think is more likely to be awarded the contract....a company that is owned by the government or one that isn't?

I'm still not convinced that GM will still survive a couple of years. Maybe this talk about socialism will look silly in a few years....but it still doesn't erase the fact that the government is a majority owner of a for-profit corporation in competition with other multinational corporations.

 

[barfo]

Uhh...yes, it is in that business. Say there's an open bid for a fleet of government cars....what do you think is more likely to be awarded the contract....a company that is owned by the government or one that isn't?

Gee, you mean a government bid could favor one company over another? That never happened before, has it? Ha-ha-ha-liburton!

So you think private industry can't compete with government? I thought the standard line was the reverse.

I'm still not convinced that GM will still survive a couple of years.

Well, that would solve the problem, then, wouldn't it?

Maybe this talk about socialism will look silly in a few years....but it still doesn't erase the fact that the government is a majority owner of a for-profit corporation in competition with other multinational corporations.

Yes. It doesn't erase that fact. Why that fact is so incredibly important to you puzzles me, though, unless you really think the government is going to proceed to nationalize the rest of the industry.

barfo

 

[BTOWN_HUSTLA]

yes, but the US Govt didn't actually OWN Halliburton. When the government owns a company, they can change the rules however they want to give advantage to their own company.

Its not so much that they are going to nationalize the rest of the industry....their place should not be to own corporations in the first place.

 

[PapaG]

I love seeing the same people who complained about Bush's "powers" now twist, contort, and turn to try and justify our new President, who is basically Bush on steroids.

 

[barfo]

yes, but the US Govt didn't actually OWN Halliburton. When the government owns a company, they can change the rules however they want to give advantage to their own company.

You mean our own company.
The more money we make on GM over the next couple of years, the less taxes we have to pay. I'd think you'd be all for them being successful.

Its not so much that they are going to nationalize the rest of the industry....their place should not be to own corporations in the first place.

True, and I don't think they went looking for this. GM went to the government and begged, and a lot of people believed that letting GM fail would hurt the country too much. So here we are. The fault is not as much with the government as with the board and management of GM, which didn't do their jobs.

barfo

 

[PapaG]

yes, but the US Govt didn't actually OWN Halliburton. When the government owns a company, they can change the rules however they want to give advantage to their own company.

Its not so much that they are going to nationalize the rest of the industry....their place should not be to own corporations in the first place.

Just ignore idiotic talking points. Halliburton has NOTHING to do with the GM bailout/bankruptcy scam.

 

[barfo]

I love seeing the same people who complained about Bush's "powers" now twist, contort, and turn to try and justify our new President, who is basically Bush on steroids.

Just ignore idiotic talking points.

Ok.

barfo

 

[BTOWN_HUSTLA]

You mean our own company.
The more money we make on GM over the next couple of years, the less taxes we have to pay. I'd think you'd be all for them being successful.

True, and I don't think they went looking for this. GM went to the government and begged, and a lot of people believed that letting GM fail would hurt the country too much. So here we are. The fault is not as much with the government as with the board and management of GM, which didn't do their jobs.

barfo

The government isn't a roulette table.

I'm all for the best company to be successful, not just ones that the government owns. In other words, I support capitalism.

 

[barfo]

The government isn't a roulette table.

I'm all for the best company to be successful, not just ones that the government owns. In other words, I support capitalism.

Great, me too. GM isn't the best company, and it isn't successful. You got your wish.

barfo

 

[BTOWN_HUSTLA]

Great, me too. GM isn't the best company, and it isn't successful. You got your wish.

barfo

I think Hyundai is an up and comer. 10 year/100,000 mile warranties!

 

[BTOWN_HUSTLA]

the problem with GM is that its been a broken model, broken company for many many years. they have been getting their ass kicked by the japanese since the mid 80s.

the government owning them is like when you play co-ed basketball in grade school and they MADE you pass to the girl before you could score a basket.

 

[barfo]

the problem with GM is that its been a broken model, broken company for many many years. they have been getting their ass kicked by the japanese since the mid 80s.

That is indeed their problem.

the government owning them is like when you play co-ed basketball in grade school and they MADE you pass to the girl before you could score a basket.

As it turns out, girls don't actually have cooties. At least, most of them don't.
GM may yet grow up to be a hot babe. Right now she needs to ride the short bus, though.

barfo

 

[BTOWN_HUSTLA]

only 5% of the girls in the WNBA are doable.

 

[Idog1976]

What about the corporate control of the election process via media selected candidates? Or the voting machines which we don't see the proprietary software too nor can it be audited by outside bodies due to trade secrets? The millitary industrial complex that Eisenhower talked about? Yes the "government" is taking over GM but who controls the government? Which former Investment Bank has supplied the majority of our last few Treasury secretary's and/or their closest advisors: including Henry Paulson (Bush the guy who passed TARP 1), and Robert Rubin (Who pushed for NAFTA under Clinton) and the man they are very close with Timothy Geithner, the answer is Goldman Sachs. Goldman also is the former abode of most New York Fed chiefs including Steven Friedman a man who held goldman stock while acting as head of the New York Fed after Geithner left. To say the Government owns the means of production isn't entirely accurate. Socialism for the corporations has a proper name.

"Corporatism should be more rightly called Facism for ultimately it is the merger between State and Corporation."

Benito Mussolini

This is a non-partisan effort to further concentrate power among an increasingly small elite and their bureaucratic counterparts in government. Neither Democrat nor Republican candidates are helping except perhaps at the small local level.

Here is a thought provoking article I don't totally agree with but feel raises some good points.

I for one see it as a trend towards authoritarianism more then towards collectivism but that is just me. Bush was on the same train that Obama is now driving. Really, we've been moving this direction since the Reconstruction. The Robber Barons never went away and their power was never broken. They have used the government to meet their ends for over a century now. Perhaps Eisenhower had integrity same with JFK but they are rare. Really since WW II it's been one set of tools after another Johnson (Vietnam, War on Poverty) Nixon (Watergate, Bombing Cambodia, mentor of Cheney/Rufmsfeld) and Ford (with Nelson Rockefeller as VP and bagman for the Johnson Nixon years with Rumsfeld and Cheney lurking in his Cabinet), Carter (with Zibigniew Brzenski in the cabinet), Reagan (All HW's guys after Regan got shot leading to Iran/Contra, Panama etc.) HW Bush (Mr. NWO himself), Clinton (NAFTA, Telecommunications Act), W. Bush (Need I say more?) and now Obama.

Obama who signed the retroactive immunity bill to protect the telecom companies from lawsuits over invasion of privacy and violationof the 4th amendment, is overseeing the biggest transfer of wealth in human history on a scale that would make Dick and Rummy blush. litterally Trillions of taxpayer dollars have gone to the banks either through the FED (A private corporation, check your phone book it is right next to Federal Express and is NOT in the government section as it is owned by the banks it over sees such as Bank of America) or through the Treasury TARP 2, TALF and the private public purchase of "toxic or legacy" assets where the tax payer covers the purcahse of the assets if it isn't profitable for the private party who bought them. Yes, if he were not a black man, but instead white and Republican a lot of folks who support him would be up in arms over his actions. Instead they currently see no evil. Just as a bunch of Republicans refused to see Bush's destruction of the constitution and economy for many years, as he was to them, comfortably white and Republican


It's funny to me as human history has been quite consistent for the last 10,000 years of history but people want to believe that elite and powerful people stopped being power hungry, ruthless greedy and sneaky sometime in the 1700's with the Enlightenment and supposed democracy. The fact is rich and powerful people have always vied for power at the expense of each other and the masses and nothing has changed. With the advent of widespread information and litteracy the powerful had to learn to hide their machniations from a now somewhat witting public. In the late 1600's the Vatican implented the beginings of the modern form of propaganda. Nations, royalty, the rich and powerful and eventually governments and corporations would use increasingly sophisticated forms of propaganda and disinformation to hide their activity from the masses.

Nothing has changed much really and what's more important is that it doesn't matter. Only a truly spiritual evolution will shift things for the blueprint for destruction lies in us all. It is the human mind and ego. It is our sense of seprateness that leads to our baseline emotion fear and alienation which in turn leads to selfish as opposed to selfless motivations. Luckily there is a way out. There must be something which is permanent to know that things are impermanent. There must be something changeless to acknowledge that things change. It exists within all of us and paradoxically we all exist within it. When we awakening from the dream of thought so too will we learn to master the mind instead of being mastered by it. When we have awakened then all will change in unimaginable ways. Read the teachings of Ramana Maharshi, "Sailor" Bob Adamson, Eckhart Tolle, Lao Tzu, Nisargadatta Maharaj, Robert Adams, Byron Katie and many many others. Find the sense of "I am" within, sense your own beingness. You will know you are going the right direction when the mind slows and you feel an increasing sense of peace deep within. If enough of us do this the world will truly change in a way that is sustainable. Don't stop living your life but learn to live within the present moment with spontaneous action. Use the mind as a tool don't let it use you!

 

[BTOWN_HUSTLA]

uhhh......yes?