The Grumblings

[ucatchtrout]

Lots of grumbling going on, as the team hasn't been playing all that well lately.

If you are Jason Quick you take the opportunity to crack on Sergio and say Bayless ought to be playing.

If you are Nate maybe you gripe about Sergios D.

Well folks Sergio Rodriguez simply does not play enough minutes to be solely responsible for the weak defensive effort this team has produced or the offensive problems we have been having.

Some blame the coach for all this and even suggest that since this is the final year of his contract that we should say goodbye at the end of the year and hire someone new.

Who?

Some point the finger at Frye or LaMarcus or Greg.

Its really all of the above. We've all gotten caught up in the hype and thought we were a bit better than we are. We've gotten off to a better start than most of us thought we would, but since then things have flattened out a bit.

Clearly some improvements need to be made in all areas of the team if we are going to make it to the next level.

Coaching. I like Nate and I like what he has done with the team. Having said that, I've also been troubled by his mancrushs on Juan Dixon, Jarrett Jack and others. I don't like his offense at all, and if I was KP I wouldn't go through another season with this offensive scheme. I'd let the coach know if he wishes to stay here that changes in the offensive scheme will be part of the deal. In Nates defense here, I wonder what difference a healthy Martell Webster would have made.

Defense. I don't think its the coach, I believe it is the players. We need to make some changes. Our perimeter defense is horrible. And whether we have Greg or Joel inside of that covering up they are both getting torched by guys who have beaten us on the outside. This is where Greg gets a lot of his ticky tacky fouls. I think Brandon is pretty good defensively and a lot of people are pointing fingers at Steve Blake or Sergio. Well Sergio certainly gets beat, but so does Steve Nash, and as I said before he doesn't get enough minutes to get saddled with resposibility for our defensive problems. Blake gets beat too, but everyone does in this league. If I'm going to point fingers here its going to be at our forwards. All of them. Yep, even Batum. He is inconsistant, and though he shows potential he isn't the answer. And his offensive weaknesses force the coach to give minutes to Travis Outlaw who every night gets lost in the defensive rotations. Outlaw, Batum, Aldridge and Frye are all playing substandard defense. I haven't seen enough of Ike Diogu to label him. If we're to make a trade either before the deadline or during the off-season both forward positions need to be upgraded, and no player we have at either position should be considered untradeable.

 

[Pinwheel1]

I am old enough to remember every Blazer coach. To my recollection Jack Ramsey is the only coach that Blazer fans did not complain about the offense. And we complained about him too at the end. Saying it was old school. We complained Adleman didn't run any plays and that always hurt us in the playoffs.

So just out of curiousity what style of offense do Blazer fans want? You want the triangle? Because that seldom has worked for anyone but Michael and finally Kobe. Do we want Sloan's offense, because I don't think we have the PG for that to work. How about the motion offensive (Is Doug Moe still alive?) Small ball like Nellie? We certainly are not built for DiAntoni's offensive. Anyways what offensive do we want and do we have the personnel for it.

 

[Minstrel]

So just out of curiousity what style of offense do Blazer fans want? You want the triangle? Because that seldom has worked for anyone but Michael and finally Kobe. Do we want Sloan's offense, because I don't think we have the PG for that to work. How about the motion offensive (Is Doug Moe still alive?) Small ball like Nellie? We certainly are not built for DiAntoni's offensive. Anyways what offensive do we want and do we have the personnel for it.

"Motion offense" isn't a specific offense. It's simply an offense that functions by keeping players moving off cuts and screens to create mismatches for the defense, as opposed to set plays. A motion offense can be tailored for your team; the triangle is an example of a motion offense, as is the Princeton offense. Sloan's pick-and-roll offense with Stockton and Malone wasn't.

I'd definitely like to see a motion offense. The Blazers are too static, which leads to a lot of one-on-one. I think that planting Oden in the post, right now, is a mistake. That will be great once Oden develops his post game, but right now it's not advantageous to the team. They need to move him around, to create space for slashers and to create space for him so that he can roll to the hoop to take passes and convert, or to crash the boards. Aldridge also needs to be kept moving, to take advantage of his shooting range and athleticism. He can pull his defender out, go past him, shoot when his defender declines to follow him out. Aldridge isn't someone who can consistently overmatch his defender in the post.

Right now, the team often brings the ball down, hands it to Roy (or dumps it into Oden/Aldridge) and then spaces the floor. When the team is knocking down jumpers or Roy is in unstoppable mode, that works. When neither is true, they don't get any easy points or free throws to counter being cold from the perimeter.

I think with the athleticism, ball-handling, shooting and passing that the team has, they're well-suited to some form of motion offense. It's frustrating to see them engage in static, one-on-one offense, because they don't have a player who can consistently thrive in that game. When Roy or Aldridge is on fire, they can, but they can't do it game in and game out.

 

[BrianFromWA]

"Motion offense" isn't a specific offense. It's simply an offense that functions by keeping players moving off cuts and screens to create mismatches for the defense, as opposed to set plays. A motion offense can be tailored for your team; the triangle is an example of a motion offense, as is the Princeton offense. Sloan's pick-and-roll offense with Stockton and Malone wasn't.

I'd definitely like to see a motion offense. The Blazers are too static, which leads to a lot of one-on-one. I think that planting Oden in the post, right now, is a mistake. That will be great once Oden develops his post game, but right now it's not advantageous to the team. They need to move him around, to create space for slashers and to create space for him so that he can roll to the hoop to take passes and convert, or to crash the boards. Aldridge also needs to be kept moving, to take advantage of his shooting range and athleticism. He can pull his defender out, go past him, shoot when his defender declines to follow him out. Aldridge isn't someone who can consistently overmatch his defender in the post.

Right now, the team often brings the ball down, hands it to Roy (or dumps it into Oden/Aldridge) and then spaces the floor. When the team is knocking down jumpers or Roy is in unstoppable mode, that works. When neither is true, they don't get any easy points or free throws to counter being cold from the perimeter.

I think with the athleticism, ball-handling, shooting and passing that the team has, they're well-suited to some form of motion offense. It's frustrating to see them engage in static, one-on-one offense, because they don't have a player who can consistently thrive in that game. When Roy or Aldridge is on fire, they can, but they can't do it game in and game out.

, and

The backdoor cut from Sergio to Rudy is an example of what "motion offense" gives you. When you see Joel or Oden at the Free throw line looking for cutters (who are generally nonexistent), that's what a motion offense can give you. When you saw Webster go for 24 in a quarter, that was and example of running off of double-screens and either shooting over the top of the defender (which he did a lot of) or passing to a cutter through the lane.

As it is, our team, other than Rudy, does not like running without the ball. Not on breaks, not on defense, not in the offense. Not even in setting screens, it's a lazy job up to a half-hearted standstill that everyone except Joel does. That needs to change, maybe even before the offense does.

BTW: I've been saying we should look at John Thompson III at Georgetown as a lead assistant. He probably wouldn't leave, but he's a pretty smart fella at warping the Princeton Offense around the players he has while playing really solid D.

 

[BalancedMan]

Motion can be a pain in the ass to play, but it works on just about every level.

 

[ucatchtrout]

Its also fun to watch. It would be a great fit for this team.

 

[Pinwheel1]

So who's current offense in the NBA do you guys want Nate to emulate? What team/coach in your mind is running the motion offensive in the manner that you would like the Blazer's to do?

 

[Minstrel]

So who's current offense in the NBA do you guys want Nate to emulate? What team/coach in your mind is running the motion offensive in the manner that you would like the Blazer's to do?

The way the Kings played under Adelman is one model. Not an exact match, of course, but the half-court offense that they ran with a lot of passing, especially out of the high post, and backdoor cuts to the hoop, with the big men setting screens and rolling to the hoop or shooting open mid-range jumpers.

 

[ucatchtrout]

The way the Kings played under Adelman is one model. Not an exact match, of course, but the half-court offense that they ran with a lot of passing, especially out of the high post, and backdoor cuts to the hoop, with the big men setting screens and rolling to the hoop or shooting open mid-range jumpers.

My thoughts exactly.

 

[Pinwheel1]

Any others? No one one is currently running an offense now that we should copy? Sounds like there is not a lot of offensive creativity out there. So if we want to bring in another coach because we don't like Nate's offense where do we look for his replacement? I guess we can look at all the coaches that have been FIRED this year. But seriously why is there such little creativity in the NBA? Why would switching coaches make a difference. College coaches seldom work out and NBA coaches are almost all ex-players that run the same plays they did when they played.

 

[MrJayremmie]

I don't agree that we should look to upgrade our starting PF position, and I don't agree that Aldridge is a below average defender.

 

[MARIS61]

Bake it!

 

[Boob-No-More]

Threads like this absolutely crack me up. The Blazers currently have the No. 1 ORtg (Offensive Rating) at basketball-reference.com and are tied for 1st in Hollinger's Offensive Efficiency Rating.

So, people who know a little bit about basketball don't seem to think there is a problem with our offense, but in this forum we are "blessed" with our own "experts" who are so blinded by negativity that that they can't see the truth. We get endless posts criticizing Nate's coaching and coaching wannabes proposing other offensive styles.

Is our team perfect? No, but our offense isn't the problem. Perimeter defense is the team's biggest weakness - and it's cost us a few games recently (Orlando, Clippers, Dallas). Address that issue and the team will be one of the best in the league.

No team is perfect. The Blazers have made significant improvement in their areas of weakness from last season (rebounding, interior defense, and interior scoring). Now that those areas are no longer week, they have to address their perimeter defense. It will take time, and maybe even a trade, but this area will be addressed, too. No need to panic. Let's see how we look with Martell back in the starting line-up before we make a move to address short term needs that may have long term implications.

Of course, if we can make a deal to get Caron Butler or Gerald Wallace without giving up too much, I'm all for it. But, I think those deals will be available closer to the trade deadline as the Bobcats and Wizards look for the highest bids for these two players.

BNM

 

[Kaydow]

Motion offense?

It sounds like a good idea on paper. Not sure if we have the guys to do it. First of all, you need a PG who can handle the ball (and not pick up his dribble) and who can pass. You can have all the motion you want, but there has to be passing lanes. Blake can't do this - no way. He gets the ball past half court alright, but then the wings have to pop out to receive the ball. If he dribbles to one side or the other, he gets trapped easily. If you have a guy like CP3, no problem - he never picks up his dribble, and can dribble in/out of traps. He's a one man press breaker.

Motion offenses are difficult to execute. The plays take longer to set up, and there is a huge learning curve for everybody to know their role & be in the right spot. Some of our guys would do fine with it. Others? (can you imagine TO having to think?)

Not saying it's not doable, but it's a big step and there would be growing pains. Not something you just decide to do and . . . BANG, it's done.

 

[Boob-No-More]

The way the Kings played under Adelman is one model. Not an exact match, of course, but the half-court offense that they ran with a lot of passing, especially out of the high post, and backdoor cuts to the hoop, with the big men setting screens and rolling to the hoop or shooting open mid-range jumpers.

Those Kings teams had three of the best passing big men to play the game over the last 20 years. Vlade average 5.3 APG his last season with the Kings. In seven seasons with the Kings, Chris Webber never averaged less than 4.1 APG. He averaged 5.4 APG in 2003-03 and was averaging 5.5 APG in 2004-05 when they traded him to Philadelphia. During Adelman's last season in Sacramento, Brad Miller averaged 4.7 APG.

Part of this was Adelaman's system, but you also need the right kind of talent to make it work. And frankly, Joel Przybilla and Greg Oden have vastly different skill sets than those great passing centers Adelman had in Sacramento.

BNM

 

[Minstrel]

Part of this was Adelaman's system, but you also need the right kind of talent to make it work. And frankly, Joel Przybilla and Greg Oden have vastly different skill sets than those great passing centers Adelman had in Sacramento.

While the Blazers clearly don't have the caliber of passers in their big men that those Kings had, Oden's passing has been surprisingly good and Aldridge is a competent high post passer. Oden's future skillset should require a very different system, but right now I think Oden would benefit from an offense that doesn't run through him, but attempts to get him the ball moving toward the hoop. In Blake, Roy, Batum, Aldridge and Oden, I think you have at least competent passing at every position, and lots of athleticism and mobility.

I don't think the offense is a problem, but I think it can improve, largely by playing to the current strengths of Oden and Aldridge to get more consistent production from them. You can't do much better ranking-wise, but every extra PPG by the offense leads to more wins.

 

[MARIS61]

Part of the grumbling comes from the common misconception that winning each and every game is the #1 goal for KP and Nate, which is not the case.

They are looking at what each player can or cannot do for them.