The Gulf Oil Spill

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MikeDC

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OK, I've been on my back for a few weeks, but I'm a little surprised that I'm back and no one is talking about this. I guess we, here at S2, are like the nation's other celebrities, only find massive problems in the Gulf Coast and oil spills to be cause for outcry when it's the other guys in charge. :ghoti:

Anyway, Rolling Stone has a truly great expose on the spill and how it happened:
the application that BP submitted for its Deepwater Horizon well only two months after Obama took office. BP claims that a spill is "unlikely" and states that it anticipates "no adverse impacts" to endangered wildlife or fisheries. Should a spill occur, it says, "no significant adverse impacts are expected" for the region's beaches, wetlands and coastal nesting birds. The company, noting that such elements are "not required" as part of the application, contains no scenario for a potential blowout, and no site-specific plan to respond to a spill. Instead, it cites an Oil Spill Response Plan that it had prepared for the entire Gulf region. Among the sensitive species BP anticipates protecting in the semitropical Gulf? "Walruses" and other cold-water mammals, including sea otters and sea lions. The mistake appears to be the result of a sloppy cut-and-paste job from BP's drilling plans for the Arctic. Even worse: Among the "primary equipment providers" for "rapid deployment of spill response resources," BP inexplicably provides the Web address of a Japanese home-shopping network. Such glaring errors expose the 582-page response "plan" as nothing more than a paperwork exercise. "It was clear that nobody read it," says Ruch, who represents government scientists.
 
Government and regulations really saved us this time.
 
What? An unaccountable bureaucracy didn't do its job? I'm shocked!
 
How is Rolling Stone the first one to have an "expose" on this? Or has NYT or the WP and I just didn't see it?
 
It's easily their best article since PJ O'Rourke was their foreign affairs writer
 
Clearly, this was Bush's fault.

That said, if BP is truly at fault here, I hope Obama throws the book at them. And then some. I can understand the accident and the initial spill. But to not have the immediate capability to cap the well is not right. It's a sickening incident.
 
I'm getting more and more frustrated that BP was cleared by the government bureaucracy on all of the plans, etc....that (if you believe Rolling Stone) wasn't even looked at by the people supposed to be the "watchdogs". Want to kick someone's ass? How about the guy who approved the "safety plan" that BP tossed together. The whole systems engineering/verification part of this sickens me.
 
I asked in another thread, but I haven't gotten an answer...what charges (if any) are being drawn up? Are they going to be cited for polluting, etc? I haven't heard anything except "claims" and "cleanup costs".

And I don't mean to sound crass, but there will be a large number more people laid off from petroleum industry in LA being shut down than shrimp farmers losing their livelihood.
 
I asked in another thread, but I haven't gotten an answer...what charges (if any) are being drawn up? Are they going to be cited for polluting, etc? I haven't heard anything except "claims" and "cleanup costs".

And I don't mean to sound crass, but there will be a large number more people laid off from petroleum industry in LA being shut down than shrimp farmers losing their livelihood.

As to you first paragraph, so long as the feds approved of the plans, I doubt criminal action can commense. The best we can hope for are tortfecious monies.

As to the second paragraph, this will devestate the environment and otherwise damage the economy of that region- but to what extent I really can't guess.
.
 
I asked in another thread, but I haven't gotten an answer...what charges (if any) are being drawn up? Are they going to be cited for polluting, etc? I haven't heard anything except "claims" and "cleanup costs".

And I don't mean to sound crass, but there will be a large number more people laid off from petroleum industry in LA being shut down than shrimp farmers losing their livelihood.

I don't really see any obvious criminal charges against BP, nor do I think there should be. The damage is to other folks' property, so the proper remedy is to hold them liable for that.

Of course, governments generally have immunity from tort claims, but if the dereliction of duty (and their own laws) were as obvious as has been made out, it might be fun to see if defendants could sue the Federal government under the Federal Tort Claims Act.
 
Government and regulations really saved us this time.

Perhaps we should have must stronger regulations

http://www.nytimes.com/gwire/2010/0...iticize-oil-companies-spill-respon-62998.html

"On paper, these are impressive documents; each is 500 or more pages long," said Energy and Commerce Chairman Henry Waxman (D-Calif.), holding up a thick white binder holding Exxon Mobil's plan. "But what they show is that Exxon Mobil, Chevron, ConocoPhillips and Shell are not better-prepared to deal with a major oil spill than BP."

Markey and Waxman both pointed out that four of the five companies noted in their Gulf spill-response plans how they would protect walruses, which do not live in the Gulf of Mexico
 
The problem seems to be one of getting the government to enforce the regulations already in place, not a lack of laws in the first place.

The "strength" of a rule is in its enforcement.

Suppose a guy is speeding down the highway at 100mph. Speed limit is 60. He passes a cop, who notes the speeding car is being driven by a friend of the police chief and lets it go. The car then crashes into local orphanage.

In common talk, "strengthening" the regulation means lowering the speed limit to 50. Which will do absolutely nothing to stop friends of the mayor from driving too fast, but it will make life miserable for everyone else.
 
That's my take on this. If "regulations" need to be enforced more, I'm all for it. Whoever approved the plan should be held accountable. What I DON'T agree with is the ability of the president/congress to utilize this to ban offshore drilling.
 
friend of a friend just got back from New Orleans, said it ranked like Oil

:sad:
 
friend of a friend just got back from New Orleans, said it ranked like Oil

:sad:

my heart sank when I read this. I love fishing and surfing and we're suppose to get this stuff on our coast too. It's not suppose to be that bad by the time it gets to NC though.
 
The problem seems to be one of getting the government to enforce the regulations already in place, not a lack of laws in the first place.

The "strength" of a rule is in its enforcement.

Suppose a guy is speeding down the highway at 100mph. Speed limit is 60. He passes a cop, who notes the speeding car is being driven by a friend of the police chief and lets it go. The car then crashes into local orphanage.

In common talk, "strengthening" the regulation means lowering the speed limit to 50. Which will do absolutely nothing to stop friends of the mayor from driving too fast, but it will make life miserable for everyone else.

The obvious solution is to move the orphanage away from the highway.

barfo
 
The obvious solution is to move the orphanage away from the highway.

barfo


Yes.

In other words, it's better to put a fence at the top of a hill than a hospital at the bottom.
 
I'm getting more and more frustrated that BP was cleared by the government bureaucracy on all of the plans, etc....that (if you believe Rolling Stone) wasn't even looked at by the people supposed to be the "watchdogs". Want to kick someone's ass? How about the guy who approved the "safety plan" that BP tossed together. The whole systems engineering/verification part of this sickens me.

Crime is not the fault of the criminal, it is the fault of the cops that didn't catch him.

barfo
 
Crime is not the fault of the criminal, it is the fault of the cops that didn't catch him.

barfo

Therefore, get rid of the cops.
 
Nope, crime is the fault of the criminal and they're responsible for the actions. But I'm still trying to figure out what the criminal act is here. They submitted a plan for mitigation of any accident. It was approved as being adequate. Crandc's the only one who's brought up potential criminal actions against BP (for killing endangered species, I think she said, which kind of makes sense). Are they being charged with anything?
 
Nope, crime is the fault of the criminal and they're responsible for the actions. But I'm still trying to figure out what the criminal act is here. They submitted a plan for mitigation of any accident. It was approved as being adequate. Crandc's the only one who's brought up potential criminal actions against BP (for killing endangered species, I think she said, which kind of makes sense). Are they being charged with anything?

I don't think they have been formally charged with anything yet. Investigations are underway. Here's one person's analysis of what the crimes could be:

May 26 (Bloomberg) -- At least one federal crime had indisputably been committed when oil started spewing into the Gulf of Mexico and approached land. Another criminal act became clear when the first oil-covered sea bird died.

Even if everyone involved in the Deepwater Horizon disaster did precisely what they were supposed to do, if every crew member, each manager and all suppliers followed every regulation diligently, the oil globs reaching shore and the deadly crude covering pelicans signal crimes just as clearly as would a body with a dagger through the heart.

“Someone’s going to be criminally prosecuted for this,” says David M. Uhlmann, who for 17 years worked as a prosecutor for the Justice Department’s environmental crimes section, including seven years as the unit’s chief.

The questions are: who, and for what crimes?

BP Plc tops the list of suspects because the company leased the rig, owns the oil and to some degree oversaw the operation. But Transocean Ltd., which owns the rig and supplied most of the staff, no doubt has its lawyers working defensively right about now. And then there’s Halliburton Co., which cemented the well.

As for laws that were clearly broken, there are two that let prosecutors slam-dunk convictions with no evidence of negligence or intentional wrongdoing. Many a white-collar case has floundered on the problem of proving criminal intent. These environmental laws make that unnecessary.

Environmental Statutes

The 1918 Migratory Bird Treaty Act protects fowl. The Refuse Act, part of the 1899 Rivers and Harbors Act, outlaws industrial discharge in navigable waters.

OK, they are both misdemeanors punishable by minor fines, but stay with me here.

Even a misdemeanor conviction would remove the $75 million cap on damages that the Oil Pollution Act sets. BP says it will pay all legitimate damages from the spill, regardless of the cap, but fisherman still suffering from the Exxon Valdez spill 20 years ago would urge caution in believing such promises.

Bumping it up a notch by showing negligence, prosecutors can win a conviction under the Clean Water Act, and there’s every reason to believe that can be shown here. Negligence means an absence of due care, say in keeping the blowout preventer working to, um, prevent a catastrophic blowout, for example.

All right, a negligence conviction would be a misdemeanor, too, but it carries a fine that could decimate any company charged in this catastrophe: up to twice the damages the spill caused. And an individual charged could spend a year in jail, which would seem a lot for an oil-company manager.

Proving Felonies

To get into felony territory is trickier. For that, prosecutors need to show that companies or people acted “knowingly.”

Surely no one knew they would be wreaking ecological devastation on the Gulf of Mexico, ruining a coastal fishing industry, crippling tourism or trashing beachfront property values when they were operating the Deepwater Horizon, even if they took a shortcut or two.

That kind of knowledge doesn’t have to be proven to make a felony case. A BP subsidiary admitted felonious guilt in a deadly 2005 explosion at a Texas City, Texas, refinery and when another BP operation spilled 200,000 barrels of oil into Prudhoe Bay in Alaska.

Uhlmann, who now teaches law at the University of Michigan, says that if sufficient evidence emerges, the government could win felony convictions under the Clean Water Act by proving those in charge knew the operation had serious problems and continued to run it anyway.

Eyewitness Account

That seems the case laid out in a CBS “60 Minutes” interview with Mike Williams, chief electronics technician on the Deepwater Horizon.

He said that before the explosion, the rig’s blowout preventer coughed up broken pieces of a crucial rubber seal. A supervisor said it was no big deal.

And when a crew member’s error broke part of the blowout device’s emergency backup system, no one much cared about that, either, Williams told “60 Minutes.”

Then, when it came time to close the new well in preparation for pumping, a BP manager demanded the crew use a quicker, riskier way than the standard process the Transocean manager had planned, according to Williams.

It could turn out that Williams’ account is flawed, or that none of those problems led to the explosion, or that BP and Transocean did everything they reasonably could to prevent the 11 deaths and thousands of barrels of still-spewing oil that’s now coating wildlife and washing ashore on beaches and wetlands.

Legal Thresholds

But if someone filed a false report, manipulated a test result or showed any attempt at deceit, that would ratchet up a Clean Water case to a felony. It could also trigger prosecution for fraud, obstructing justice or filing a false statement against the individuals involved, as well as their employer.

In this case prosecutors will be driven to be as aggressive as possible, says Uhlmann, given the gravity of what’s occurred and previous convictions by BP subsidiaries, all of them accompanied by promises to do better.

And yet, even the misdemeanor crimes we know were committed led to a calamitous result. They could also lead to ruinous penalties to those responsible.

barfo
 
I am in no way on the side of BP here, but I find it difficult to believe if the Justice Department brought any kind of criminal case that the people they charged could receive anything close to a fair trial.

A guy in the oil business lives a couple of houses from me here in Denver and he ran through a long list of the ways BP cut corners. He said they fought Transocean on a couple of critical parts, specifically with the timeline to recycle the mud to make sure the gas was out of it. BP said a 5-6 hours was enough when standard practice is at least 48 hours.

However, he also said that in his mind the government bears some responsibility for poor crisis management. He said regardless what BP said to the Administration, there should have been someone there who knew enough about the oil business to know that you bring EVERYTHING to bear. In other words, you not only put on a belt, but suspenders. He also said that the emphasis at MMS has gone from "old" technologies to "green" ones, and there are few people left who really understand the risks of deepwater drilling.
 
terra_oil_leak_june202010.jpg
 

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