Politics The Inspector General’s Report

[ABM]

Only straight people are unbiased?

Crooked people have been known to be unbiased, yet far less often.

 

[jonnyboy]

Lots of people have axes to grind. You are certainly grinding a few lately yourself.

Doesn't mean Glenn (or Rachel or you) don't have anything valuable to say, but it is important to be aware that things are being left out and/or whitewashed.

barfo

Please let us know what was omitted.

 

[barfo]

Please let us know what was omitted.

I haven't read the whole thing (but I do read his work from time to time). So let's just take the first line from the 3rd paragraph of the story you linked.

"If you don’t consider FBI lying, concealment of evidence, and manipulation of documents in order to spy on a U.S. citizen in the middle of a presidential campaign to be a major scandal, what is?"

First, it wasn't in the middle of the campaign. The first FISA warrant was issued just before the election, in October 2016, and the 3 renewals were all after the election. Second, Carter Page wasn't even part of the campaign at the time. So the words "in the middle of a presidential campaign" really don't belong in that sentence. They are put there to mislead the reader.

[I'm not addressing the characterization of the FBI actions because I haven't read the IG's report so I don't know if Greenwald is or is not accurately describing what the IG found.]

barfo

 

[bodyman5000 and 1]

I haven't read the whole thing (but I do read his work from time to time). So let's just take the first line from the 3rd paragraph of the story you linked.

"If you don’t consider FBI lying, concealment of evidence, and manipulation of documents in order to spy on a U.S. citizen in the middle of a presidential campaign to be a major scandal, what is?"

First, it wasn't in the middle of the campaign. The first FISA warrant was issued just before the election, in October 2016, and the 3 renewals were all after the election. Second, Carter Page wasn't even part of the campaign at the time. So the words "in the middle of a presidential campaign" really don't belong in that sentence. They are put there to mislead the reader.

[I'm not addressing the characterization of the FBI actions because I haven't read the IG's report so I don't know if Greenwald is or is not accurately describing what the IG found.]

barfo

Wow another gotchya by Barfo. Middle...dude said middle.

I knew that Glenn Greenwald was a liar. So what if CNN reported a couple of years ago that Carter Page had been subject to a Fisa warrant in 2013 or 14.

Glenn Greenwald...liar.

 

[barfo]

Wow another gotchya by Barfo. Middle...dude said middle.

I knew that Glenn Greenwald was a liar. So what if CNN reported a couple of years ago that Carter Page had been subject to a Fisa warrant in 2013 or 14.

Glenn Greenwald...liar.

I can't quite understand your post. What does CNN have to do with Glen Greenwald? What does 2013 have to do with the 2016 election?

Finally, 'middle' is not the main issue here. 'campaign' is the issue. If it had been you instead of Carter Page, it would have made just as much sense to say 'middle of the campaign'. Which is to say none. You weren't on the campaign, neither was he. There's no rule that the FBI has to stop working on all investigations during presidential campaigns, is there?

Actually, there's no rule that campaigns are immune from investigation. The IG said that the investigations into various Trump people were properly predicated. And of the 4, Carter Page is the only one who didn't end up a felon.

barfo

 

[MARIS61]

Any complex story, no reporter is going to have the full set of facts as it happens. Just have to ask yourself constantly: is this statement a fact? a lie? an opinion? a theory of the case that might or might not prove to be true?

barfo

He only commented on the report's contents.

The report fully confirms his comments.

Read the report before embarrassing yourself with another garbage post.

 

[MARIS61]

I haven't read the whole thing ...

barfo

Obvious from the rest of your post.

 

[barfo]

He only commented on the report's contents.

Provably false - just look at the very first sentence, where he is talking about the Mueller report, and about media coverage, rather than only the IG report.

The report fully confirms his comments.

I'd take your word for it, but your word really isn't worth anything, since you post things that are false almost every single day.

Read the report before embarrassing yourself with another garbage post.

Ha ha.

barfo

 

[julius]

almost every day?

 

[barfo]

almost every day?

I was assuming that occasionally he doesn't post at all. Not sure if that's true but giving him the benefit of the doubt.

barfo

 

[bodyman5000 and 1]

I can't quite understand your post. What does CNN have to do with Glen Greenwald? What does 2013 have to do with the 2016 election?

Finally, 'middle' is not the main issue here. 'campaign' is the issue. If it had been you instead of Carter Page, it would have made just as much sense to say 'middle of the campaign'. Which is to say none. You weren't on the campaign, neither was he. There's no rule that the FBI has to stop working on all investigations during presidential campaigns, is there?

Actually, there's no rule that campaigns are immune from investigation. The IG said that the investigations into various Trump people were properly predicated. And of the 4, Carter Page is the only one who didn't end up a felon.

barfo

Uhh. You seem to read the things you pick apart but if you are going to be literal about it....

Greenwald didn't say they were investigating Carter Page Trump Campaign member.

He said they were abusing the fisa process to spy on a US citizen during the campaign.

You assume Greenwald is trying mislead the reader without proof.

An FBI lawyer faking documents is a nothing burger amirite?

If a lawyer faked documents to get warrants on a gang member most everyone that posts here would freak....rightly so but somehow not in this case because Horowitz didn't find any bias written on paper...just 17 oopsies all against Trump.

Wonder what would happen if the refs called 17 travels against the Blazers and none against Houston in a game?

 

[barfo]

Uhh. You seem to read the things you pick apart but if you are going to be literal about it....

Greenwald didn't say they were investigating Carter Page Trump Campaign member.

He most certainly strongly implied it.

He said they were abusing the fisa process to spy on a US citizen during the campaign.

If it was just a US citizen, what is the relevance of mentioning the campaign?

You assume Greenwald is trying mislead the reader without proof.

Yes. As I said, I'm familiar with his style. Same as I'm familiar with yours.

An FBI lawyer faking documents is a nothing burger amirite?

That is definitely a somethingburger. It just doesn't have anything to do with the campaign.

If a lawyer faked documents to get warrants on a gang member most everyone that posts here would freak....rightly so but somehow not in this case because Horowitz didn't find any bias written on paper...just 17 oopsies all against Trump.

None of the oopsies were 'against Trump'. Again, Carter Page was NOT associated with Trump at the time.

Wonder what would happen if the refs called 17 travels against the Blazers and none against Houston in a game?

Wonder what would happen if the sun rose tomorrow morning?

barfo

 

[MARIS61]

He most certainly strongly implied it.
barfo

The FISA abuse was continual from 2013-2017 at a minimum, which means during the campaign, and while you are making assumptions you can assume from the corrupt career history of Mueller, Comey, Clapper, Brennan that they abused it anytime they felt it helped their goals.

 

[MARIS61]

barfo's desperate deflections aside, READ THE REPORT.

Just the tip of the iceberg.

Years of prosecutions to come, whole intelligence agencies to be closed or re-structured, maybe even a whole new court created for oversight of agency heads, to prevent it from happening again.

 

[MARIS61]

https://www.justice.gov/file/1071991/download

 

[barfo]

The FISA abuse was continual from 2013-2017 at a minimum, which means during the campaign, and while you are making assumptions you can assume from the corrupt career history of Mueller, Comey, Clapper, Brennan that they abused it anytime they felt it helped their goals.

That all might be true, but you haven't presented any evidence that it is.

And even if it were true, it still wouldn't be relevant to the campaign, because Carter Page was the only Trump-related FISA warrant, and that one was issued after he was off the campaign.

barfo

 

[MARIS61]

https://nypost.com/2019/12/17/ig-report-suggests-fbi-might-cheat-on-all-its-fisa-wiretap-requests/

IG report suggests FBI might cheat on all its FISA wiretap requests
By Jacob Sullum

December 17, 2019 | 8:33pm

Former FBI Director James Comey initially portrayed last week’s damning report on the bureau’s probe of Russiagate as a vindication. This week, Comey admitted that Inspector General Michael Horowitz discovered “real sloppiness,” which is “concerning.”

That characterization does not begin to cover the problems described by Horowitz, which this week prompted a highly unusual public rebuke from the court that reviews secret warrant applications under the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA). The FISA court called the FBI’s conduct “antithetical to the heightened duty of candor” that applies in such cases.

Comey may take comfort in the fact that Horowitz didn’t find political bias. The rest of us can hardly be reassured by the implication that the FBI is inept rather than corrupt.

Comey, who ran the FBI from September 2013 to May 2017, is not just self-interested but demonstrably untrustworthy on this subject. Last year, he claimed information from former British spy Christopher Steele, which according to Horowitz “played a central and essential role” in the decision to surveil Page, was merely “part of a broader mosaic of facts” supporting the four warrants issued by judges under the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act.

Comey also said he had “total confidence that the FISA process was followed and that the entire case was handled in a thoughtful, responsible way.” Yet Horowitz found that the first warrant application included “seven significant inaccuracies and omissions” that weren’t corrected in the three renewal applications, which were marred by “10 additional significant errors.”

Those “errors” included blatant exaggerations of Steele’s proven reliability, the failure to note that his work was opposition research commissioned by Democrats, even after that became clear, the omission of the fact that Steele himself was “desperate” to prevent Trump’s election and a false denial of Steele’s contacts with the press.

The FBI also neglected to mention that people who had worked with Steele questioned his judgment, that Steele’s “primary sub-source” had directly contradicted claims in his “dossier,” that Page had reported his contact with a Russian spook to the CIA and that Page said he had never met key figures in the purported conspiracy described by Steele.

Inspector general says Comey not vindicated by Russia report


“FBI personnel fell far short of the requirement in FBI policy that they ensure that all factual statements in a FISA application are ‘scrupulously accurate,’  ” Horowitz concluded. Even that assessment is charitable, especially since an FBI lawyer deliberately doctored an email to conceal Page’s relationship with the CIA, which had deemed him truthful.

The pattern of these “errors” isn’t random, since all of them served to bolster

the appearance of probable cause. Horowitz told the Senate Judiciary Committee his investigators “did not receive satisfactory explanations for the errors or problems we identified,” and he allowed that they might reflect “intentionality,” saying “it’s fair” to “look at all of these 17 events and wonder how it could be purely incompetence.”

It would be reassuring if the FBI’s misfeasance could be explained by anti-Trump bias. But as Horowitz noted in his report, the fact that “so many basic and fundamental errors were made by three separate, hand-picked teams on one of the most sensitive FBI investigations,” one that “was briefed to the highest levels within the FBI” and “FBI officials expected would eventually be subjected to close scrutiny,” suggests a much deeper problem involving overzealousness, confirmation bias and tunnel vision — tendencies that threaten all Americans who value their privacy and reputations.

Even Comey, who claims the dishonesty described by Horowitz “does not reflect the FBI culture of compliance and candor,” wonders if the failure might be “systemic,” meaning there could be “problems with other cases.” Too bad he was never in a position to explore that issue.

 

[MARIS61]

That all might be true, but you haven't presented any evidence that it is.

And even if it were true, it still wouldn't be relevant to the campaign, because Carter Page was the only Trump-related FISA warrant, and that one was issued after he was off the campaign.

barfo

You haven't presented any evidence that Page's warrant was the only one, which is preposterous to assume given the level of deceipt and corruption by Intelligence Agency heads, and Page's warrant was issued before he was on the campaign (while he was an informant for the CIA) but re-authorized 3 times over the years. He and PapaD were the planned stooges framed by the Deep State to create the whole miserable failure of the Russian Hoax.

 

[barfo]

barfo's desperate deflections aside, READ THE REPORT.

Just the tip of the iceberg.

Years of prosecutions to come, whole intelligence agencies to be closed or re-structured, maybe even a whole new court created for oversight of agency heads, to prevent it from happening again.

More likely, there's exactly one guy that is going to get prosecuted out of the IG report, and that's the lawyer that altered a document.

barfo

 

[barfo]

You haven't presented any evidence that Page's warrant was the only one, which is preposterous to assume given the level of deceipt and corruption by Intelligence Agency heads, and Page's warrant was issued before he was on the campaign (while he was an informant for the CIA) but re-authorized 3 times over the years. He and PapaD were the planned stooges framed by the Deep State to create the whole miserable failure of the Russian Hoax.

Right, I can't prove there weren't more FISA warrants. Nor can I prove that live babies weren't served for lunch on Fridays in the FBI cafeteria.

Your statement about when Page's FISA warrant was issued is factually incorrect. It was after he left the campaign.

barfo

 

[bodyman5000 and 1]

https://nypost.com/2019/12/17/ig-report-suggests-fbi-might-cheat-on-all-its-fisa-wiretap-requests/

IG report suggests FBI might cheat on all its FISA wiretap requests
By Jacob Sullum

December 17, 2019 | 8:33pm

Former FBI Director James Comey initially portrayed last week’s damning report on the bureau’s probe of Russiagate as a vindication. This week, Comey admitted that Inspector General Michael Horowitz discovered “real sloppiness,” which is “concerning.”

That characterization does not begin to cover the problems described by Horowitz, which this week prompted a highly unusual public rebuke from the court that reviews secret warrant applications under the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA). The FISA court called the FBI’s conduct “antithetical to the heightened duty of candor” that applies in such cases.

Comey may take comfort in the fact that Horowitz didn’t find political bias. The rest of us can hardly be reassured by the implication that the FBI is inept rather than corrupt.

Comey, who ran the FBI from September 2013 to May 2017, is not just self-interested but demonstrably untrustworthy on this subject. Last year, he claimed information from former British spy Christopher Steele, which according to Horowitz “played a central and essential role” in the decision to surveil Page, was merely “part of a broader mosaic of facts” supporting the four warrants issued by judges under the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act.

Comey also said he had “total confidence that the FISA process was followed and that the entire case was handled in a thoughtful, responsible way.” Yet Horowitz found that the first warrant application included “seven significant inaccuracies and omissions” that weren’t corrected in the three renewal applications, which were marred by “10 additional significant errors.”

Those “errors” included blatant exaggerations of Steele’s proven reliability, the failure to note that his work was opposition research commissioned by Democrats, even after that became clear, the omission of the fact that Steele himself was “desperate” to prevent Trump’s election and a false denial of Steele’s contacts with the press.

The FBI also neglected to mention that people who had worked with Steele questioned his judgment, that Steele’s “primary sub-source” had directly contradicted claims in his “dossier,” that Page had reported his contact with a Russian spook to the CIA and that Page said he had never met key figures in the purported conspiracy described by Steele.

Inspector general says Comey not vindicated by Russia report


“FBI personnel fell far short of the requirement in FBI policy that they ensure that all factual statements in a FISA application are ‘scrupulously accurate,’  ” Horowitz concluded. Even that assessment is charitable, especially since an FBI lawyer deliberately doctored an email to conceal Page’s relationship with the CIA, which had deemed him truthful.

The pattern of these “errors” isn’t random, since all of them served to bolster

the appearance of probable cause. Horowitz told the Senate Judiciary Committee his investigators “did not receive satisfactory explanations for the errors or problems we identified,” and he allowed that they might reflect “intentionality,” saying “it’s fair” to “look at all of these 17 events and wonder how it could be purely incompetence.”

It would be reassuring if the FBI’s misfeasance could be explained by anti-Trump bias. But as Horowitz noted in his report, the fact that “so many basic and fundamental errors were made by three separate, hand-picked teams on one of the most sensitive FBI investigations,” one that “was briefed to the highest levels within the FBI” and “FBI officials expected would eventually be subjected to close scrutiny,” suggests a much deeper problem involving overzealousness, confirmation bias and tunnel vision — tendencies that threaten all Americans who value their privacy and reputations.

Even Comey, who claims the dishonesty described by Horowitz “does not reflect the FBI culture of compliance and candor,” wonders if the failure might be “systemic,” meaning there could be “problems with other cases.” Too bad he was never in a position to explore that issue.

What? A system setup with nobody to advocate for the accused is easy to abuse? No way.

 

[Lanny]

This is patently untrue. Read the report.

No political bias means no anti-Trump bias. That connection seems pretty clear to me.

 

[Lanny]

Right, I can't prove there weren't more FISA warrants. Nor can I prove that live babies weren't served for lunch on Fridays in the FBI cafeteria.

Your statement about when Page's FISA warrant was issued is factually incorrect. It was after he left the campaign.

barfo

"There's no such thing as a tough child - if you parboil them first for seven hours, they always come out tender."
"Children should neither be seen or heard from - ever again."
"Anyone who hates children and animals can't be all bad."