The Iran Deal

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we lift the sanctions deserves a Why?

Aren't the sanctions exactly what we have to trade here? Aren't the sanctions in place because of their nuclear program? Why would you think they'd make a deal that didn't include some relief from sanctions - and what else are we going be willing to give them?

barfo
 
Aren't the sanctions exactly what we have to trade here? Aren't the sanctions in place because of their nuclear program? Why would you think they'd make a deal that didn't include some relief from sanctions - and what else are we going be willing to give them?

barfo

We could surrender. Wouldn't be the first time it happened during this presidency.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...s-do-about-the-framework-agreement-with-iran/

Under President Obama’s leadership, we had the “reset” with Russia, we had the “pivot” to Asia, we had the “red line” in Syria, we declared Iraq to be “sovereign, stable and self-reliant,” we had Yemen as a “success story” — and now we have the “framework agreement” with Iran. What could possibly go wrong? Why would anyone withhold support for the president?

But seriously, now that the president has announced this framework agreement with Iran, calling it “a good deal, a deal that meets our core objectives,” what should Republican leaders do?
 
We could surrender. Wouldn't be the first time it happened during this presidency.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...s-do-about-the-framework-agreement-with-iran/

Under President Obama’s leadership, we had the “reset” with Russia, we had the “pivot” to Asia, we had the “red line” in Syria, we declared Iraq to be “sovereign, stable and self-reliant,” we had Yemen as a “success story” — and now we have the “framework agreement” with Iran. What could possibly go wrong? Why would anyone withhold support for the president?

But seriously, now that the president has announced this framework agreement with Iran, calling it “a good deal, a deal that meets our core objectives,” what should Republican leaders do?

They should commit suicide. Same thing they should have done before the agreement.

Since you asked, and since you clearly are interested in a serious discussion.

barfo
 
Actually, you asked. You got a serious answer.
 
Israel has never officially admitted to having nuclear weapons.
 
Trade implies we received. Can you tell us what exactly we received? Obama doesn't seem to be able to tell us.

Nope. I'm not sure why the negotiations weren't nationally televised like every previous treaty negotiation. They must be hiding something!

barfo
 
The outline of the deal has been televised.

Do you need it in pictures?

Here you go.

Iran-Nuke-Fix.jpg
 
nationally televised like every previous treaty negotiation

I didn't know previous treaties had that kind of exposure. I only thought they needed full disclosure to and consent of the Senate.
If you don't know what we received, I suppose that is understandable. Does your Senator know? Mine doesn't seem to know.
 
I didn't know previous treaties had that kind of exposure. I only thought they needed full disclosure to and consent of the Senate.
If you don't know what we received, I suppose that is understandable. Does your Senator know? Mine doesn't seem to know.

Pretty sure my senators are the same as your senators.

barfo
 
Pretty sure my senators are the same as your senators.

barfo

Ah! And you, me and neither or our Senators know what Obama has done.
You know, it is not suppose to work this way.
 
All this deal has done is insure Saudi Arabia, the Gulf States and Egypt buy/develop their own nuclear weapons.

I suspect the Iranians look at this deal the same way the Nazis looked at the Molotov-Von Ribbentrop Pact: Something to buy them time and something to break at a time of their convenience.
 
Under President Obama’s leadership, we had the “reset” with Russia, we had the “pivot” to Asia, we had the “red line” in Syria, we declared Iraq to be “sovereign, stable and self-reliant,” we had Yemen as a “success story” — and now we have the “framework agreement” with Iran. What could possibly go wrong? Why would anyone withhold support for the president?

But seriously, now that the president has announced this framework agreement with Iran, calling it “a good deal, a deal that meets our core objectives,” what should Republican leaders do?

Concise talking points, designed for message boards. Where do you subscribe? ALEC?


I'd expect the bottom of your glossy talking points poster to quote a domestic leader like a Republican. Instead, it quotes Netanyahoo, the GOP's god. That's because the Party has no electable leaders, and they know it. Why not just nominate Netanyahoo in 2016? You guys keep putting him forward as if he's the best you have, and you're right.
 
Concise talking points, designed for message boards. Where do you subscribe? ALEC?



I'd expect the bottom of your glossy talking points poster to quote a domestic leader like a Republican. Instead, it quotes Netanyahoo, the GOP's god. That's because the Party has no electable leaders, and they know it. Why not just nominate Netanyahoo in 2016? You guys keep putting him forward as if he's the best you have, and you're right.

Why make an enemy out of one of our strongest allies in favor of a peace overture that doesn't accomplish our goals to a sworn enemy?

You're too smart for this.
 
Ah! And you, me and neither or our Senators know what Obama has done.
You know, it is not suppose to work this way.

Actually, it is supposed to work this way, and it has always worked this way. The President has the authority to negotiate agreements with other countries without keeping Congress in the loop.

barfo
 
Actually, it is supposed to work this way, and it has always worked this way. The President has the authority to negotiate agreements with other countries without keeping Congress in the loop.

barfo

Unless it's Iran and Contras being negotiated with.

Right? Can't have it both ways.
 
Unless it's Iran and Contras being negotiated with.

Right? Can't have it both ways.

That's pretty silly. I think you are old enough to remember that Iran-Contra involved violation of various laws. The issue was not whether the president had the authority to enter into negotiations with Iran.

If you think think there is something illegal about the current proposed deal, let's hear it.

barfo
 
That's pretty silly. I think you are old enough to remember that Iran-Contra involved violation of various laws. The issue was not whether the president had the authority to enter into negotiations with Iran.

If you think think there is something illegal about the current proposed deal, let's hear it.

barfo

Really? But you said:

"Actually, it is supposed to work this way, and it has always worked this way. The President has the authority to negotiate agreements with other countries without keeping Congress in the loop."

So does the president have the authority or not?

Obama says he doesn't need congress' approval to put his deal in force even.
 
Really? But you said:

"Actually, it is supposed to work this way, and it has always worked this way. The President has the authority to negotiate agreements with other countries without keeping Congress in the loop."

So does the president have the authority or not?

Obama says he doesn't need congress' approval to put his deal in force even.

Don't be so silly. The president has the authority to make legal deals. He doesn't have the authority to make illegal deals.
Just like a cop has authority to shoot someone who is shooting at him, but no authority to shoot someone who is running away.
There aren't just two options - absolute power or no power at all.

barfo
 
Don't be so silly. The president has the authority to make legal deals. He doesn't have the authority to make illegal deals.
Just like a cop has authority to shoot someone who is shooting at him, but no authority to shoot someone who is running away.
There aren't just two options - absolute power or no power at all.

barfo

"legal"

LOL

They're either all "legal" or not.
 
"legal"

LOL

They're either all "legal" or not.

Really? So you believe the president has absolute power? Or, alternatively, that pretty much every president we've ever had has made illegal deals?
Those are your two choices based on your last statement there.

barfo
 
Really? So you believe the president has absolute power? Or, alternatively, that pretty much every president we've ever had has made illegal deals?
Those are your two choices based on your last statement there.

barfo

You said:

"Actually, it is supposed to work this way, and it has always worked this way. The President has the authority to negotiate agreements with other countries without keeping Congress in the loop."

How can it be "legal" or "illegal" if congress isn't in the loop?
 
Actually, it is supposed to work this way, and it has always worked this way. The President has the authority to negotiate agreements with other countries without keeping Congress in the loop.

barfo

I think you mean Obama is acting as if he has the power. But I do note, you did not say he has this by given to him in the Constitution so I do not know of what authority you speak.

Here is the actual text of Article II stating the power of the office. (highlighted line covers this issue)

Article. II.

Section. 1.

The executive Power shall be vested in a President of the United States of America. He shall hold his Office during the Term of four Years, and, together with the Vice President, chosen for the same Term, be elected, as follows:

Each State shall appoint, in such Manner as the Legislature thereof may direct, a Number of Electors, equal to the whole Number of Senators and Representatives to which the State may be entitled in the Congress: but no Senator or Representative, or Person holding an Office of Trust or Profit under the United States, shall be appointed an Elector.

The Electors shall meet in their respective States, and vote by Ballot for two Persons, of whom one at least shall not be an Inhabitant of the same State with themselves. And they shall make a List of all the Persons voted for, and of the Number of Votes for each; which List they shall sign and certify, and transmit sealed to the Seat of the Government of the United States, directed to the President of the Senate. The President of the Senate shall, in the Presence of the Senate and House of Representatives, open all the Certificates, and the Votes shall then be counted. The Person having the greatest Number of Votes shall be the President, if such Number be a Majority of the whole Number of Electors appointed; and if there be more than one who have such Majority, and have an equal Number of Votes, then the House of Representatives shall immediately chuse by Ballot one of them for President; and if no Person have a Majority, then from the five highest on the List the said House shall in like Manner chuse the President. But in chusing the President, the Votes shall be taken by States, the Representation from each State having one Vote; A quorum for this purpose shall consist of a Member or Members from two thirds of the States, and a Majority of all the States shall be necessary to a Choice. In every Case, after the Choice of the President, the Person having the greatest Number of Votes of the Electors shall be the Vice President. But if there should remain two or more who have equal Votes, the Senate shall chuse from them by Ballot the Vice President.

The Congress may determine the Time of chusing the Electors, and the Day on which they shall give their Votes; which Day shall be the same throughout the United States.

No Person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any Person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States.

In Case of the Removal of the President from Office, or of his Death, Resignation, or Inability to discharge the Powers and Duties of the said Office, the Same shall devolve on the Vice President, and the Congress may by Law provide for the Case of Removal, Death, Resignation or Inability, both of the President and Vice President, declaring what Officer shall then act as President, and such Officer shall act accordingly, until the Disability be removed, or a President shall be elected.

The President shall, at stated Times, receive for his Services, a Compensation, which shall neither be increased nor diminished during the Period for which he shall have been elected, and he shall not receive within that Period any other Emolument from the United States, or any of them.

Before he enter on the Execution of his Office, he shall take the following Oath or Affirmation:--"I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the Office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my Ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States."

Section. 2.

The President shall be Commander in Chief of the Army and Navy of the United States, and of the Militia of the several States, when called into the actual Service of the United States; he may require the Opinion, in writing, of the principal Officer in each of the executive Departments, upon any Subject relating to the Duties of their respective Offices, and he shall have Power to grant Reprieves and Pardons for Offences against the United States, except in Cases of Impeachment.

He shall have Power, by and with the Advice and Consent of the Senate, to make Treaties, provided two thirds of the Senators present concur; and he shall nominate, and by and with the Advice and Consent of the Senate, shall appoint Ambassadors, other public Ministers and Consuls, Judges of the supreme Court, and all other Officers of the United States, whose Appointments are not herein otherwise provided for, and which shall be established by Law: but the Congress may by Law vest the Appointment of such inferior Officers, as they think proper, in the President alone, in the Courts of Law, or in the Heads of Departments.

The President shall have Power to fill up all Vacancies that may happen during the Recess of the Senate, by granting Commissions which shall expire at the End of their next Session.

Section. 3.

He shall from time to time give to the Congress Information of the State of the Union, and recommend to their Consideration such Measures as he shall judge necessary and expedient; he may, on extraordinary Occasions, convene both Houses, or either of them, and in Case of Disagreement between them, with Respect to the Time of Adjournment, he may adjourn them to such Time as he shall think proper; he shall receive Ambassadors and other public Ministers; he shall take Care that the Laws be faithfully executed, and shall Commission all the Officers of the United States.

Section. 4.

The President, Vice President and all civil Officers of the United States, shall be removed from Office on Impeachment for, and Conviction of, Treason, Bribery, or other high Crimes and Misdemeanors.
 
He'll print that out and wipe his ass with it.
 
I guess you've never heard about, "Double Secret Probation."

Well, congress can pass laws making things illegal. They can't take away the president's constitutional powers.

Unless the president is Obama, then they can't pass laws like a democrat congress could against Reagan's diplomacy.
 

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