The Life of Oden

[Rastapopoulos]

Oh, is it that time of the month for another of Shooter's moralizing rants?

I was tempted to say:

"Time of the month? What are you implying?"

but then I remembered that would be gynophobic and unfunny. But then I thought, "Shooter's a conservative, and thus we can assume sexist, so it's like ironic and shit." So I went with it.

 

[PapaG]

I was tempted to say:

"Time of the month? What are you implying?"

but then I remembered that would be gynophobic and unfunny. But then I thought, "Shooter's a conservative, and thus we can assume sexist, so it's like ironic and shit." So I went with it.

What stupid statement. From what I've seen, crandc is the only true sexist person on this board.

 

[e_blazer]

There are a lot of Blazers in the past who I could feel pretty angry about essentially stealing money and talent from the Blazers. Guys like Rasheed Wallace, Bonzi Wells, Zach Randolph, and J.R. Rider didn't have Oden's injury problems and, at times at least, played very well, but because their on- and off-court antics they decreased their value so much that the team couldn't get in trade nearly what their talents would have otherwise commanded. Those guys, through actions that were totally within their control, damaged the Blazers.

Oden's knee injuries haven't come from any actions he's taken other than simply trying to play the game that he was hired to play. Nobody held a gun to the Blazers heads to force them to sign Oden's contract...in fact, they were quite giddy to do it. Injuries are a part of the game, which is part of why contracts are guaranteed. Teams can elect to protect themselves, at least in part, by carrying insurance against injury. I suppose that there could be changes in the CBA to provide more protection to teams who suffer injuries to major players, but that's a topic for another discussion. I don't see anything to blame Greg about.

 

[magnifier661]

When you say Oden has lost that much money, you are assuming Oden, if he was able to play, would have reached Durant's level. For Durant, in his career, he has become a perinial all star, an Olympic team star and leads the entire league in scoring (besides showing he is incredibly passionate about the game). I don't think one can fairly say Oden has lost 20 million in endorsement.

And if Oden isn't as good as advertised and he gets another contract (which he will) one could even argue that his injuries have delayed seeing what kind of player he really is and might even have made him more money.

Basically we don't know if he is Candiman, Curry or Ewing and have to extend him to find out.

Okay maybe not look at it in Durant, but even another player like, let's say Miles or Zach; when they got contracts on pure potential. Or possibly a contract for Okfur; whom obviously isn't a superstar. All of them still got way more than 9-10 mil per season; which many think Oden will get based on purely potential.

Still proves he lost money being injured. I can see the bitching if he got a large contract and was injured, i.e. Yao.

 

[THE HCP]

Figures he'd start this thread. Greg is a really good person who has had very bad luck. I wish him the best.

 

[magnifier661]

There are a lot of Blazers in the past who I could feel pretty angry about essentially stealing money and talent from the Blazers. Guys like Rasheed Wallace, Bonzi Wells, Zach Randolph, and J.R. Rider didn't have Oden's injury problems and, at times at least, played very well, but because their on- and off-court antics they decreased their value so much that the team couldn't get in trade nearly what their talents would have otherwise commanded. Those guys, through actions that were totally within their control, damaged the Blazers.

Oden's knee injuries haven't come from any actions he's taken other than simply trying to play the game that he was hired to play. Nobody held a gun to the Blazers heads to force them to sign Oden's contract...in fact, they were quite giddy to do it. Injuries are a part of the game, which is part of why contracts are guaranteed. Teams can elect to protect themselves, at least in part, by carrying insurance against injury. I suppose that there could be changes in the CBA to provide more protection to teams who suffer injuries to major players, but that's a topic for another discussion. I don't see anything to blame Greg about.

THIS

 

[BlazerCaravan]

Derek Anderson, Theo Ratliff... those guys stole money from the Blazers.

 

[Minstrel]

Nope--but nice try. Thank God for capitalism, which allows all of us to get rich by the sweat of our brows, if we work hard enough. Oden is one of the lucky few who doesn't have to work hard, but still gets rich!

I love how you're such a staunch zealot of capitalism, yet don't seem to understand it. Oden earned the contract he got by being a very valuable speculative asset. Investments always involve speculative assets to some degree. If Oden was everything he was expected to be, he would have been worth more than the Blazers paid him. Because he was unproven at the NBA level, that risk is written into the dollar value. He didn't get money for nothing, as you imply. He got money for turning his talent into an extremely valuable asset, though hard work, that any NBA team would gladly have paid to invest in. Obviously, all investments don't pay out...risk and reward are key components of capitalism.

If Oden did something in bad faith, that would be different. But from all accounts, he's always worked hard. Including in his rehabs. Oden, by rule, took less than his free market worth would have been and the Blazers took risk for possible reward. And so far it hasn't paid out for Portland. That's a pretty standard story in capitalism; at least, the Blazers' end of it.

 

[jlprk]

There are a lot of Blazers in the past who I could feel pretty angry about essentially stealing money and talent from the Blazers. Guys like Rasheed Wallace, Bonzi Wells, Zach Randolph, and J.R. Rider didn't have Oden's injury problems and, at times at least, played very well, but because their on- and off-court antics they decreased their value so much that the team couldn't get in trade nearly what their talents would have otherwise commanded. Those guys, through actions that were totally within their control, damaged the Blazers. Oden's knee injuries haven't come from any actions he's taken other than simply trying to play the game that he was hired to play.

Short version:

If Oden did something in bad faith, that would be different.

Oden is just like all the black people with no money. He claims he can't work, so he lives off the dole. All the upper middle class guys posting in this thread while they're at work can understand this. Oden's a good, quiet dog who doesn't bark, just wrinkles his forehead in obedience. The ones I can't stand are the ones who yell at authority. We want you paid if you don't yell at us like Sheed does; we earn our pay.

 

[e_blazer]

Short version:



Oden is just like all the black people with no money. He claims he can't work, so he lives off the dole. All the upper middle class guys posting in this thread while they're at work can understand this. Oden's a good, quiet dog who doesn't bark, just wrinkles his forehead in obedience. The ones I can't stand are the ones who yell at authority. We want you paid if you don't yell at us like Sheed does; we earn our pay.

You can be a very strange individual at times, but I'm guessing you know that and enjoy it.

 

[jaspitzer]

I wish we got more updates on Oden, what is he doing right now? I really hope its not sitting around watching cartoons

 

[Sug]

God will reward you for your hard work remember? I guess by your logic God feels Greg is kicking your ass in the hard work department. Maybe you should stop bitching like a lazy ass and work harder in life.

 

[Sug]

Short version:



Oden is just like all the black people with no money. He claims he can't work, so he lives off the dole. All the upper middle class guys posting in this thread while they're at work can understand this. Oden's a good, quiet dog who doesn't bark, just wrinkles his forehead in obedience. The ones I can't stand are the ones who yell at authority. We want you paid if you don't yell at us like Sheed does; we earn our pay.

Now that is fucked up thinking right there. There are a lot more white people with no money living off the dole.

 

[PapaG]

God will reward you for your hard work remember? I guess by your logic God feels Greg is kicking your ass in the hard work department. Maybe you should stop bitching like a lazy ass and work harder in life.

Just as taxpayers will reward you for mediocre work. Isn't it a school day?

 

[Shooter]

But then I thought, "Shooter's a conservative, and thus we can assume sexist . . . "

So . . . you're a liberal and thus "we can assume an idiot"?

 

[Shooter]

I love how you're such a staunch zealot of capitalism, yet don't seem to understand it. Oden earned the contract he got by being a very valuable speculative asset. Investments always involve speculative assets to some degree. If Oden was everything he was expected to be, he would have been worth more than the Blazers paid him. Because he was unproven at the NBA level, that risk is written into the dollar value. He didn't get money for nothing, as you imply. He got money for turning his talent into an extremely valuable asset, though hard work, that any NBA team would gladly have paid to invest in. Obviously, all investments don't pay out...risk and reward are key components of capitalism.

If Oden did something in bad faith, that would be different. But from all accounts, he's always worked hard. Including in his rehabs. Oden, by rule, took less than his free market worth would have been and the Blazers took risk for possible reward. And so far it hasn't paid out for Portland. That's a pretty standard story in capitalism; at least, the Blazers' end of it.

Wow, I never understood capitalism until this very minute. Thank you so much for that explanation. I've read John Stuart Mill and Milton Friedman and even Marx, but nobody has ever explained it like you!!

 

[Minstrel]

Wow, I never understood capitalism until this very minute. Thank you so much for that explanation. I've read John Stuart Mill and Milton Friedman and even Marx, but nobody has ever explained it like you!!

No worries. You seemed to be struggling to understand how Oden derived actual value within a capitalist framework, and I'm happy to help you.

 

[julius]

Just as taxpayers will reward you for mediocre work. Isn't it a school day?

Technically, tax payers in his district are rewarding him for his mediocre work. Depends on his district, if it's a school day or not. Could be on SB. Could be a day when the school requires teachers (and other workers) to show up to work but not get paid. Could be a non student day and sug's on lunch.

Maybe he had surgery and is actually off for the day.

Or maybe he's doing what the rest of us are doing, and checking on here while we're at work (and therefore, we look stupid when we bring it up)?

My guess is he's secretly in a bomb shelter in his back yard in Montana.

 

[PapaG]

No worries. You seemed to be struggling to understand how Oden derived actual value within a capitalist framework, and I'm happy to help you.

I find that choice of word generally awesome, btw, considering this thread. Of course, it could be said that the NBA doesn't have a completely a capitalistic framework, since there are mandated contracts for rookies, caps and limitations on veteran contracts, and the indentured servant-esque idea of "drafting" a player and then "owning" their rights for the first four years of their career.

The counter argument would say that the NBA is the result of a capitalistic society, although the union aspects and collective bargaining allowed in this capitalistic society make it less-than capitalistic, in theory.

Food for thought...

 

[PapaG]

Technically, tax payers in his district are rewarding him for his mediocre work. Depends on his district, if it's a school day or not. Could be on SB. Could be a day when the school requires teachers (and other workers) to show up to work but not get paid. Could be a non student day and sug's on lunch.

Maybe he had surgery and is actually off for the day.

Or maybe he's doing what the rest of us are doing, and checking on here while we're at work (and therefore, we look stupid when we bring it up)?

My guess is he's secretly in a bomb shelter in his back yard in Montana.

That's not true, though. Everybody who pays a state income tax is paying into and for PERS, which I think is a greater 'reward' than merely making the salary of a teacher. Also, I'm 'at work', but I'm my own boss, so I'm really only ripping off myself, if I'm ripping off anyone. As a taxpayer, I don't like the idea of my employees (PERS recipients) goofing off on the internet when they should be concentrating on their job that provides their cushy (and free!) retirement. I don't think that's too much to ask. Just as there are benefits to living and retiring off of the private sector (which I don't begrudge or want to take away), there should also be some confines, as dictated by their boss (me, in this instance).

 

[jlprk]

After Oden gets his new contract, he will sue the trainer for lost wages. He'll just subtract his new contract from the second contract that Shaq and Duncan got, and proportionalize it to contracts nowadays.

Shooter, can we agree that Chris Dudley should be hired to supplement Buck Williams? They could ride herd on Oden, following him around with Dudley taking pictures and notes for the lawsuit, while Williams harangues him on the basics while Oden walks from his car to his house.

 

[Minstrel]

I find that choice of word generally awesome, btw, considering this thread. Of course, it could be said that the NBA doesn't have a completely a capitalistic framework, since there are mandated contracts for rookies, caps and limitations on veteran contracts, and the indentured servant-esque idea of "drafting" a player and then "owning" their rights for the first four years of their career.

The counter argument would say that the NBA is the result of a capitalistic society, although the union aspects and collective bargaining allowed in this capitalistic society make it less-than capitalistic, in theory.

Food for thought...

I agree that both are interesting ways to look at this. I've always found a slight irony in that often people who are very pro-free market generally are also extremely in favor of league attempts to limit athletes' attempts to get a free market environment (whether it is salary caps, max contracts, slot-based salaries, etc).

I think, though, that ultimately a sports league is a free market outcome, as things are collectively bargained. Or, at least, are if sports leagues don't get federally protected monopolies. I know MLB has one and the NFL has pushed for one, but I don't know if they've gotten it yet.

 

[mook]

Durant's contract:
2011/12: $13,604,000
2012/13: $15,032,420
2013/14: $16,460,480
2014/15: $17,889,260
2015/16: $19,317,680

'

This really gets me thinking. What if we re-sign Oden to a reasonable contract. What if after that he goes a decade without further injury, and is the true beast he seemed to be during his glimpses of health. We may look back on his early injuries as something of a minor blessing. Aldridge emerged into a superstar because there was the space to operate, and we got Oden at a bargain-basement price compared to the cash lavished on Durant.

Yeah, those are some big "what ifs." But it does make you realize there still is some potential upside to the Oden vs Durant thing.

 

[PapaG]

I agree that both are interesting ways to look at this. I've always found a slight irony in that often people who are very pro-free market generally are also extremely in favor of league attempts to limit athletes' attempts to get a free market environment (whether it is salary caps, max contracts, slot-based salaries, etc).

I think, though, that ultimately a sports league is a free market outcome, as things are collectively bargained. Or, at least, are if sports leagues don't get federally protected monopolies. I know MLB has one and the NFL has pushed for one, but I don't know if they've gotten it yet.

I'm very interested to see how this NFLPA decertification develops over the spring. In a vacuum, it makes the NFL a 32-team free-market society comprised of 32 connected, yet separate, businesses. Players under contract will still have to honor those contracts, yet free agents have no limitations placed on their movement, and there is no salary cap, since there is no CBA. A player could sue for collusion, or against the anti-trust status of the NFL, or for work compensation claims (which may be the most concerning to the owners). The NFL, on the other hand, could demand that players under contract report immediately for work tomorrow, since the CBA rights attached to the player contracts now are not in existence. Of course, the player could say that they are only paid during the season, but the owners would counter that the terms of payment are irrelevant to the time frame of the contract.

Should be fascinating to watch this develop. In the end, always bet on the side with more money, so I expect the owners to generally prevail, but I'm typically 50/50 in my own beliefs toward these millionaire employee v. billionaire boss battles.

 

[The_Lillard_King]

Is this a thread more about Oden's life style vs. what he is entitled to. He deserved his contract because he was the #1 pick. It still doesn't change the fact he is getting paid millions to basically rehab (I don't think he is even required to go to or watch Blazer games).

I have no ill will towards Oden and his contract. I'm disappointed he doesn't feel more obligation (or hasn't shown it) to the Blazer organization. But this is a business both ways and organizations don't always show obligation to the players . . . and a side of me could see why Oden isn't adamant about staying in Ptd. (The other side says I wish you were more like Durant and expressed your fondness for your teamamtes, the organization, the community and your desire to stay and prove yourself here.)

But when you are 7 feet and athletic, you don't really need to do that.

 

[PapaG]

'

This really gets me thinking. What if we re-sign Oden to a reasonable contract. What if after that he goes a decade without further injury, and is the true beast he seemed to be during his glimpses of health. We may look back on his early injuries as something of a minor blessing. Aldridge emerged into a superstar because there was the space to operate, and we got Oden at a bargain-basement price compared to the cash lavished on Durant.

Yeah, those are some big "what ifs." But it does make you realize there still is some potential upside to the Oden vs Durant thing.

That's assuming that Greg doesn't accept the $8.2m Q.O., though. A small concern, and one I haven't seen mentioned, is that Oden accepts the Q.O. under the current CBA, there is no 2011-12 season (or it's shortened), and he becomes a free agent under the new CBA. I'm not exactly positive that is possible, though.

 

[Shooter]

No worries. You seemed to be struggling to understand how Oden derived actual value within a capitalist framework, and I'm happy to help you.

No, I think you were the one struggling to understand my original point--that Oden is living the life of Reilly while making a ton of money. I completely understand how such a thing can happen within a capitalist system, and I realize that the Blazers freely entered into their contract with Greg Oden. He was an investment in their future that turned out badly, but that's part of the high stakes game of NBA basketball.

It's still worth pointing out that Oden has made almost no contribution to this team in the last 4 years, and may not make much of one in the next 4 years, if they sign him to another contract--and yet he is becoming a very rich young dude in the process. I happen to find that ironic, and interesting, and worth commenting on.

 

[Shooter]

This really gets me thinking. What if we re-sign Oden to a reasonable contract. What if after that he goes a decade without further injury, and is the true beast he seemed to be during his glimpses of health. We may look back on his early injuries as something of a minor blessing.

Sorry . . . but huh?

 

[oldguy]

Short version:



Oden is just like all the black people with no money. He claims he can't work, so he lives off the dole. All the upper middle class guys posting in this thread while they're at work can understand this. Oden's a good, quiet dog who doesn't bark, just wrinkles his forehead in obedience. The ones I can't stand are the ones who yell at authority. We want you paid if you don't yell at us like Sheed does; we earn our pay.

Who, exactly is "us" and ''we" in your nonsensical rant?

Go Blazers

 

[Shooter]

Now that is fucked up thinking right there. There are a lot more white people with no money living off the dole.

Gee, really?? In a country where only 12% of the population is black, it makes sense that there would be more poor whites than poor blacks.