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The Official "756" Thread
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MaRdYC26
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Re: The Official "756" Thread
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SBoyd415 @ Jul 20 2007, 04:15 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Oops, I guess I misread. It doesn't even matter if you take away runs, SBs, and RBI's because Bonds will still win. I think that even though Williams had the better avgerage (and a .344 clip for a career is the most ridiculous thing I've seen) I don't think it makes him the better player at all...He was not an amazing fielder and he was a slow runner. I wish he could have had those years back that he missed at war, but he didn't, so arguing what he "could have" done is like me saying Mays could have hit 700 easily if he didn't play at Candlestick. And Runs, SB's and RBI's are all major categories- I don't think it's fair just to ignore those stats when RBI's and runs especially are a sign of a great hitter...Mickey Mantle was definitely a great player, but he never put up numbers anywhere near the that of Barry Bonds and Teddy Ballgame. I realize Bonds numbers are tainted, but the only real season I question is 2001 (even then he wasn't as big as he was now) If he was on steroids now, then he's a bigger idiot that Gary Sheffield and I'll just say a player like Willie Mays was the greatest alive. Bonds was probably the best five-tool player in history, and has put up better power numbers than Williams and way better numbers all around than Mantle (If you want to compare a Yankee to two greats like Bonds and Williams, you should pick DiMaggio or Ruth)I'm confused as to how many years he served. Some sites only mention two years, baseball-reference mentions four, and The Captain is saying five? Did he spend four at war and miss one with an injury or something...?</div>Mantle was better then DiMaggio, and Ruth was so far back in an era where it was kinda like, "wtf baseball existed"...Mantle was a BEAST. Do u not realize he couldn't even walk once he was done with baseball? He was basically a cripple the rest of his life. It was amazing he played that many years...and he's such a winner. mantle's always gonna be the best, or at least until a-rod is done probably..
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SBoyd415 @ Jul 20 2007, 04:15 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Oops, I guess I misread. It doesn't even matter if you take away runs, SBs, and RBI's because Bonds will still win. I think that even though Williams had the better avgerage (and a .344 clip for a career is the most ridiculous thing I've seen) I don't think it makes him the better player at all...He was not an amazing fielder and he was a slow runner. I wish he could have had those years back that he missed at war, but he didn't, so arguing what he "could have" done is like me saying Mays could have hit 700 easily if he didn't play at Candlestick. And Runs, SB's and RBI's are all major categories- I don't think it's fair just to ignore those stats when RBI's and runs especially are a sign of a great hitter...Mickey Mantle was definitely a great player, but he never put up numbers anywhere near the that of Barry Bonds and Teddy Ballgame. I realize Bonds numbers are tainted, but the only real season I question is 2001 (even then he wasn't as big as he was now) If he was on steroids now, then he's a bigger idiot that Gary Sheffield and I'll just say a player like Willie Mays was the greatest alive. Bonds was probably the best five-tool player in history, and has put up better power numbers than Williams and way better numbers all around than Mantle (If you want to compare a Yankee to two greats like Bonds and Williams, you should pick DiMaggio or Ruth)I'm confused as to how many years he served. Some sites only mention two years, baseball-reference mentions four, and The Captain is saying five? Did he spend four at war and miss one with an injury or something...?</div>Mantle was better then DiMaggio, and Ruth was so far back in an era where it was kinda like, "wtf baseball existed"...Mantle was a BEAST. Do u not realize he couldn't even walk once he was done with baseball? He was basically a cripple the rest of his life. It was amazing he played that many years...and he's such a winner. mantle's always gonna be the best, or at least until a-rod is done probably..
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Re: The Official "756" Thread
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SBoyd415 @ Jul 20 2007, 08:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>:HAHAHA: I hope you're joking with that statement. Some of the all-time greats played during Ruth's time: Honus Wagner, Walter Johnson, Rogers Hornsby, Christy Mathewson, Lou Gehrig, Jimmie Foxx, etc. No offense, but you haven't said one thing to support why Mantle should be considered the greatest player other than the fact that he couldn't walk when he retired. Provide some good evidence and I might consider it, even though he's not near the level of the two people we're already talking about
Babe Ruth during the "WTF Era" of baseball...</div>there is no other evidence because all u can really do to support your answer is stats, and I already posted that but of course his stats aren't going to be as good as bonds because bonds was on 'roids so in much better shape towards the last 5-7 years of his career...like I said I could care less of the stats, my opinion is my opinion.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SBoyd415 @ Jul 20 2007, 08:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>:HAHAHA: I hope you're joking with that statement. Some of the all-time greats played during Ruth's time: Honus Wagner, Walter Johnson, Rogers Hornsby, Christy Mathewson, Lou Gehrig, Jimmie Foxx, etc. No offense, but you haven't said one thing to support why Mantle should be considered the greatest player other than the fact that he couldn't walk when he retired. Provide some good evidence and I might consider it, even though he's not near the level of the two people we're already talking about
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Re: The Official "756" Thread
<div align="left"><span style="font-family:Arial"><span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%">"Did they tell me how to pitch to</span></span> <span style="font-family:Arial"><span style="font-size:10pt;line-height:100%"><span style="color:#990000">(Ted) Williams</span></span></span><span style="font-family:Arial"><span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%">? Sure they did. It was great advice, very encouraging. They said he had no weakness, won't swing at a bad ball, has the best eyes in the business, and can kill you with one swing. He won't hit anything bad, but don't give him anything good." - Bobby Shantz</span></span></div> <div align="left"><span style="font-family:Arial"><span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%">"He could hit better with a broken arm than we could with two good arms." - Jerry Coleman</span></span></div> <div align="left"><span style="font-family:Arial"><span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%">"If he'd just tip he cap once, he could be elected Mayor of Boston in five minutes." - Eddie Collins</span></span></div> <div align="left"><span style="font-family:Arial"><span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%">"I got a big charge out of seeing</span></span> <span style="font-family:Arial"><span style="font-size:10pt;line-height:100%"><span style="color:#990000">Ted Williams</span></span></span> <span style="font-family:Arial"><span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%">hit. Once in a while they let me try to field some of them, which sort of dimmed my enthusiasm." - Rocky Bridges</span></span></div> <div align="left"><span style="font-family:Arial"><span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%">"It was typical of him to become a Marine Air Corps pilot and see action and almost get shot down. He was a remarkable American as well as a remarkable ballplayer. His passing so close to a national holiday seems part of a divine plan, so we can always remember him not only as a great player but also as a great patriot." - Vin Scully</span></span></div> <div align="left"><span style="font-family:Arial"><span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%">"One of my best friends on earth and the greatest hitter I ever faced. And I faced a lot of guys, including Lou Gehrig. He was also a great friend to my wife Anne and me. He was a great American." - Bob Feller</span></span></div> <div align="left"><span style="font-family:Arial"><span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%">"</span></span><span style="font-family:Arial"><span style="font-size:10pt;line-height:100%"><span style="color:#990000">Ted's (Williams)</span></span></span> <span style="font-family:Arial"><span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%">passing signals a sad day, not only for baseball fans, but for every American. He was a cultural icon, a larger-than-life personality. He was great enough to become a Hall of Fame player. He was caring enough to be the first Hall of Famer to call for the inclusion of Negro Leagues stars in Cooperstown. He was brave enough to serve our country as a Marine in not one but two global conflicts.</span></span> <span style="font-family:Arial"><span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%"><span style="color:#990000">Ted Williams</span></span></span> <span style="font-family:Arial"><span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%">is a hero for all generations." - Dale Petroskey (President of the Baseball Hall of Fame)</span></span></div> <div align="left"><span style="font-family:Arial"><span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%">"</span></span><span style="font-family:Arial"><span style="font-size:10pt;line-height:100%"><span style="color:#990000">Ted (Williams)</span></span></span> <span style="font-family:Arial"><span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%">was everything that was right about the game of baseball. If you really think about it, he was everything that is right about this country. It is certainly a sad day for all of us. He is a man who lost five years of service time serving his country. What he could have done with those years in the prime of his life ... it would be awesome to really put those numbers together. He would have probably been the greatest power hitter of all time." - Pirates Manager Lloyd McClendon</span></span></div> <div align="left"><span style="font-family:Arial"><span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%">"</span></span><span style="font-family:Arial"><span style="font-size:10pt;line-height:100%"><span style="color:#990000">Ted (Williams)</span></span></span> <span style="font-family:Arial"><span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%">was the greatest hitter of our era. He won six batting titles and served his country for five years, so he would have won more. He loved talking about hitting and was a great student of hitting and pitchers." -</span></span> <span style="font-family:Arial"><span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%"><span style="color:#990000">Stan Musial</span></span></span></div> <div align="left"><span style="font-family:Arial"><span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%">"The way those clubs shift against</span></span> <span style="font-family:Arial"><span style="font-size:10pt;line-height:100%"><span style="color:#990000">Ted Williams</span></span></span><span style="font-family:Arial"><span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%">, I can't understand how he can be so stupid not to accept the challenge to him and hit to left field." - Ty Cobb</span></span></div> <div align="left"><span style="font-family:Arial"><span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%">"They can talk about Babe Ruth and Ty Cobb and Rogers Hornsby and Lou Gehrig and Joe DiMaggio and Stan Musial and all the rest, but I'm sure not one of them could hold cards and spades to (Ted) Williams in his sheer knowledge of hitting. He studied hitting the way a broker studies the stock market, and could spot at a glance mistakes that others couldn't see in a week." - Carl Yastrzemski</span></span></div> <div align="left"><span style="font-family:Arial"><span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%">"</span></span><span style="font-family:Arial"><span style="font-size:10pt;line-height:100%"><span style="color:#990000">(Ted) Williams</span></span></span> <span style="font-family:Arial"><span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%">is the classic ballplayer of the game on a hot August weekday, before a small crowd, when the only thing at stake is the tissue-thin difference between a thing done well and a thing done ill." - John Updike</span></span></div>
<div align="left"><span style="font-family:Arial"><span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%">"Did they tell me how to pitch to</span></span> <span style="font-family:Arial"><span style="font-size:10pt;line-height:100%"><span style="color:#990000">(Ted) Williams</span></span></span><span style="font-family:Arial"><span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%">? Sure they did. It was great advice, very encouraging. They said he had no weakness, won't swing at a bad ball, has the best eyes in the business, and can kill you with one swing. He won't hit anything bad, but don't give him anything good." - Bobby Shantz</span></span></div> <div align="left"><span style="font-family:Arial"><span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%">"He could hit better with a broken arm than we could with two good arms." - Jerry Coleman</span></span></div> <div align="left"><span style="font-family:Arial"><span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%">"If he'd just tip he cap once, he could be elected Mayor of Boston in five minutes." - Eddie Collins</span></span></div> <div align="left"><span style="font-family:Arial"><span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%">"I got a big charge out of seeing</span></span> <span style="font-family:Arial"><span style="font-size:10pt;line-height:100%"><span style="color:#990000">Ted Williams</span></span></span> <span style="font-family:Arial"><span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%">hit. Once in a while they let me try to field some of them, which sort of dimmed my enthusiasm." - Rocky Bridges</span></span></div> <div align="left"><span style="font-family:Arial"><span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%">"It was typical of him to become a Marine Air Corps pilot and see action and almost get shot down. He was a remarkable American as well as a remarkable ballplayer. His passing so close to a national holiday seems part of a divine plan, so we can always remember him not only as a great player but also as a great patriot." - Vin Scully</span></span></div> <div align="left"><span style="font-family:Arial"><span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%">"One of my best friends on earth and the greatest hitter I ever faced. And I faced a lot of guys, including Lou Gehrig. He was also a great friend to my wife Anne and me. He was a great American." - Bob Feller</span></span></div> <div align="left"><span style="font-family:Arial"><span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%">"</span></span><span style="font-family:Arial"><span style="font-size:10pt;line-height:100%"><span style="color:#990000">Ted's (Williams)</span></span></span> <span style="font-family:Arial"><span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%">passing signals a sad day, not only for baseball fans, but for every American. He was a cultural icon, a larger-than-life personality. He was great enough to become a Hall of Fame player. He was caring enough to be the first Hall of Famer to call for the inclusion of Negro Leagues stars in Cooperstown. He was brave enough to serve our country as a Marine in not one but two global conflicts.</span></span> <span style="font-family:Arial"><span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%"><span style="color:#990000">Ted Williams</span></span></span> <span style="font-family:Arial"><span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%">is a hero for all generations." - Dale Petroskey (President of the Baseball Hall of Fame)</span></span></div> <div align="left"><span style="font-family:Arial"><span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%">"</span></span><span style="font-family:Arial"><span style="font-size:10pt;line-height:100%"><span style="color:#990000">Ted (Williams)</span></span></span> <span style="font-family:Arial"><span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%">was everything that was right about the game of baseball. If you really think about it, he was everything that is right about this country. It is certainly a sad day for all of us. He is a man who lost five years of service time serving his country. What he could have done with those years in the prime of his life ... it would be awesome to really put those numbers together. He would have probably been the greatest power hitter of all time." - Pirates Manager Lloyd McClendon</span></span></div> <div align="left"><span style="font-family:Arial"><span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%">"</span></span><span style="font-family:Arial"><span style="font-size:10pt;line-height:100%"><span style="color:#990000">Ted (Williams)</span></span></span> <span style="font-family:Arial"><span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%">was the greatest hitter of our era. He won six batting titles and served his country for five years, so he would have won more. He loved talking about hitting and was a great student of hitting and pitchers." -</span></span> <span style="font-family:Arial"><span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%"><span style="color:#990000">Stan Musial</span></span></span></div> <div align="left"><span style="font-family:Arial"><span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%">"The way those clubs shift against</span></span> <span style="font-family:Arial"><span style="font-size:10pt;line-height:100%"><span style="color:#990000">Ted Williams</span></span></span><span style="font-family:Arial"><span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%">, I can't understand how he can be so stupid not to accept the challenge to him and hit to left field." - Ty Cobb</span></span></div> <div align="left"><span style="font-family:Arial"><span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%">"They can talk about Babe Ruth and Ty Cobb and Rogers Hornsby and Lou Gehrig and Joe DiMaggio and Stan Musial and all the rest, but I'm sure not one of them could hold cards and spades to (Ted) Williams in his sheer knowledge of hitting. He studied hitting the way a broker studies the stock market, and could spot at a glance mistakes that others couldn't see in a week." - Carl Yastrzemski</span></span></div> <div align="left"><span style="font-family:Arial"><span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%">"</span></span><span style="font-family:Arial"><span style="font-size:10pt;line-height:100%"><span style="color:#990000">(Ted) Williams</span></span></span> <span style="font-family:Arial"><span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%">is the classic ballplayer of the game on a hot August weekday, before a small crowd, when the only thing at stake is the tissue-thin difference between a thing done well and a thing done ill." - John Updike</span></span></div>
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Re: The Official "756" Thread
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SBoyd415 @ Jul 20 2007, 07:13 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Didn't see Justice reply right before me, so here I go...More runs, more hits, more RBI's, more HR's, 2B's, 3Bs', TB's, and SB's, as well as a higher SLG% What more do you want? Once again, I know that Bonds has more at-bats, but that's because Williams missed four years while at war. If you want to get into the useless could have stats, I'm sure Williams would be right up there with Bonds, but he's not. It's as simple as that. Williams has always had the better team and teammates than Bonds, so I think his stats are a little above what they should be (especially in categories like runs & RBI's)</div>Listen to what I'm saying.1. You keep saying Bonds had a higher SLG% than Williams. Once again, Williams is 2nd of all time in slugging percentage behind Ruth. NOT Bonds.2. Useless? It means a lot. Bonds has more opportunities, which in turn means better stats. How can you not refute that? It's unfair to compare them strictly by stats if you don't take into account that they didn't have the same amount of at-bats.3. That's why they aren't good stats to use.. Just like wins are horrible to judge a pitcher by.<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>That's fair enough, but either way, you can't say Williams is a faster baserunner or better fielder than Bonds (two of the components that allow you to be a five-tool player)</div>Is this a faster baserunner topic? Is this a better fielder topic?No, it's a H I T T I N G debate. We're not talking about stolen bases or runs or fielding.<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>I don't really think so. I'm levelheaded for the most part about Bonds unlike some Giants fans who won't even consider he took steroids. I know Ted Williams is an amazing hitter, but I just don't think he's as good as Bonds, especially with all the support he got from his team. You hear it all the time- Barry Bonds is probably the greatest to ever play the game. It's said for a reason. Because a majority feel that he might be. I really have nothing against Williams, I just don't think he'd put up the numbers Bonds has with the teams Bonds has been on.</div>What the hell does teammates have to do with anything!! Only RBI and runs depend on others. Which is why they are bad stats to use!
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SBoyd415 @ Jul 20 2007, 07:13 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Didn't see Justice reply right before me, so here I go...More runs, more hits, more RBI's, more HR's, 2B's, 3Bs', TB's, and SB's, as well as a higher SLG% What more do you want? Once again, I know that Bonds has more at-bats, but that's because Williams missed four years while at war. If you want to get into the useless could have stats, I'm sure Williams would be right up there with Bonds, but he's not. It's as simple as that. Williams has always had the better team and teammates than Bonds, so I think his stats are a little above what they should be (especially in categories like runs & RBI's)</div>Listen to what I'm saying.1. You keep saying Bonds had a higher SLG% than Williams. Once again, Williams is 2nd of all time in slugging percentage behind Ruth. NOT Bonds.2. Useless? It means a lot. Bonds has more opportunities, which in turn means better stats. How can you not refute that? It's unfair to compare them strictly by stats if you don't take into account that they didn't have the same amount of at-bats.3. That's why they aren't good stats to use.. Just like wins are horrible to judge a pitcher by.<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>That's fair enough, but either way, you can't say Williams is a faster baserunner or better fielder than Bonds (two of the components that allow you to be a five-tool player)</div>Is this a faster baserunner topic? Is this a better fielder topic?No, it's a H I T T I N G debate. We're not talking about stolen bases or runs or fielding.<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>I don't really think so. I'm levelheaded for the most part about Bonds unlike some Giants fans who won't even consider he took steroids. I know Ted Williams is an amazing hitter, but I just don't think he's as good as Bonds, especially with all the support he got from his team. You hear it all the time- Barry Bonds is probably the greatest to ever play the game. It's said for a reason. Because a majority feel that he might be. I really have nothing against Williams, I just don't think he'd put up the numbers Bonds has with the teams Bonds has been on.</div>What the hell does teammates have to do with anything!! Only RBI and runs depend on others. Which is why they are bad stats to use!
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Re: The Official "756" Thread
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SBoyd415 @ Jul 20 2007, 09:07 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>All of those quotes were from people who never saw Bonds play, so of course they're going to say the guy with the lifetime .344 batting average is the greatest they've seen...</div>The only two who are saying Bonds is the greatest ever are two senile old men who loves Bonds. (no bias there)Quotes are just opinions, and have tons of bias in them. I don't know why you pulled them out to solidify your point.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SBoyd415 @ Jul 20 2007, 09:07 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>All of those quotes were from people who never saw Bonds play, so of course they're going to say the guy with the lifetime .344 batting average is the greatest they've seen...</div>The only two who are saying Bonds is the greatest ever are two senile old men who loves Bonds. (no bias there)Quotes are just opinions, and have tons of bias in them. I don't know why you pulled them out to solidify your point.
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Re: The Official "756" Thread
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SBoyd415 @ Jul 20 2007, 09:40 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>My bad, I keep forgetting. Even so, Bonds is not THAT far behind Ted Williams in SLG%</div>And Williams isn't THAT far behind in everything except home runs.<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>More opportunities means better stats? Thats very debatable. Why don't you take into fact that Bonds has been intentionally walked 675 times. 379 more times than Hank Aaron, who is second. In addition to the 675 intentional passes, he has a career total of 2521 walks, 331 more than 2nd-place Rickey Henderson. Just because he gets more at-bats than Ted Williams doesn't mean he's hitting...</div>Walks don't count as at-bats. <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>It's both. Who is the better hitter and who is the better all-around player. What do teammates have to do with anything? You can't be serious. Do you think any legend would have the same stats if they were playing with the modern-day Royals? Baseball is a team sport, so how can you say teammates have no effect on a persons stats. They have to get on-base in order to set up RBI opportunities, and they have to bat the runner in in order to get runs...</div>I know Bonds is a better fielder and baserunner. I never said otherwise. I'm defending Williams as a hitter.Hehhh...Which is why RBI and Runs are bad to analyze a player with. They don't have full control of the situation!
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SBoyd415 @ Jul 20 2007, 09:40 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>My bad, I keep forgetting. Even so, Bonds is not THAT far behind Ted Williams in SLG%</div>And Williams isn't THAT far behind in everything except home runs.<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>More opportunities means better stats? Thats very debatable. Why don't you take into fact that Bonds has been intentionally walked 675 times. 379 more times than Hank Aaron, who is second. In addition to the 675 intentional passes, he has a career total of 2521 walks, 331 more than 2nd-place Rickey Henderson. Just because he gets more at-bats than Ted Williams doesn't mean he's hitting...</div>Walks don't count as at-bats. <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>It's both. Who is the better hitter and who is the better all-around player. What do teammates have to do with anything? You can't be serious. Do you think any legend would have the same stats if they were playing with the modern-day Royals? Baseball is a team sport, so how can you say teammates have no effect on a persons stats. They have to get on-base in order to set up RBI opportunities, and they have to bat the runner in in order to get runs...</div>I know Bonds is a better fielder and baserunner. I never said otherwise. I'm defending Williams as a hitter.Hehhh...Which is why RBI and Runs are bad to analyze a player with. They don't have full control of the situation!
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Re: The Official "756" Thread
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SBoyd415 @ Jul 20 2007, 09:46 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>The Felipe Alou quote is biased because he coached Bonds for a period of time, but I don't see how you can have anything against what Little said. It's a rival managers opinion on how good Barry Bonds really is...All of your quotes are from people who neither talk about Barry Bonds or knew who he was at the time. Everything is just opinion, but it's not just my "skewed point of view" that thinks Barry Bonds is perhaps the greatest hitter and player to ever play the game.</div>I posted those quotes because anyone could have a quote said about them. I'm sure there are quotes about Jimi Hendrix being the greatest guitar player of all time. Same with Jimmy Page, Eddie Van Halen, Eric Clapton, Steve Vai, and many others. Quotes shouldn't even be in an arguement because they have no substance.<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SBoyd415 @ Jul 20 2007, 09:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Tell me why players don't have "full control" over RBI situations?And I want to hear from ASUFan22 on this. He seems to know a lot about Barry Bonds too. Where has he been...?</div>You can't control if people get on base ahead of you. Simple as that.I think ASU is on vacation. Don't quote me on that though as I'm not fully sure.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SBoyd415 @ Jul 20 2007, 09:46 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>The Felipe Alou quote is biased because he coached Bonds for a period of time, but I don't see how you can have anything against what Little said. It's a rival managers opinion on how good Barry Bonds really is...All of your quotes are from people who neither talk about Barry Bonds or knew who he was at the time. Everything is just opinion, but it's not just my "skewed point of view" that thinks Barry Bonds is perhaps the greatest hitter and player to ever play the game.</div>I posted those quotes because anyone could have a quote said about them. I'm sure there are quotes about Jimi Hendrix being the greatest guitar player of all time. Same with Jimmy Page, Eddie Van Halen, Eric Clapton, Steve Vai, and many others. Quotes shouldn't even be in an arguement because they have no substance.<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SBoyd415 @ Jul 20 2007, 09:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Tell me why players don't have "full control" over RBI situations?And I want to hear from ASUFan22 on this. He seems to know a lot about Barry Bonds too. Where has he been...?</div>You can't control if people get on base ahead of you. Simple as that.I think ASU is on vacation. Don't quote me on that though as I'm not fully sure.
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Re: The Official "756" Thread
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SBoyd415 @ Jul 20 2007, 10:00 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Exactly. That's why Bonds is the better hitter IMO. Not only does he hit for power, he has more RBI's on worse teams with no other great hitter along side of him. It wouldn't really matter if you had Babe Ruth or Shinjo in front of you, a great hitter finds a way to make the best out of an RBI situation. Get what I'm saying...?
</div>Who is this "great hitter" along side Ted? Jimmie Foxx? He only played with him for four years, when his skills were getting worse and worse. Also, Foxx batted behind Williams. Same with Doer I believe.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SBoyd415 @ Jul 20 2007, 10:00 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Exactly. That's why Bonds is the better hitter IMO. Not only does he hit for power, he has more RBI's on worse teams with no other great hitter along side of him. It wouldn't really matter if you had Babe Ruth or Shinjo in front of you, a great hitter finds a way to make the best out of an RBI situation. Get what I'm saying...?
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Re: The Official "756" Thread
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SBoyd415 @ Jul 20 2007, 07:13 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I already named some of the teammates Ted Williams and Barry Bonds had, and it's painfully obvious Ted Williams' teammates have been better.</div>It's not just teammates. It's an entirely different part of the game. Apparently you don't understand how getting into scoring position works, so I won't try to explain it to someone new to the game.Runs and SB's can be accomplished without getting a hit as I said before, so it really has nothing to do with hitting. Ted has a better RBI/AB. It has nothing to do with "what if's." If you had each player in their prime, you would have to take Ted, because he is a better hitter. Longevity is basically your only argument, and Barry got that because of steroids (and because of other factors, such as money and improved training techniques).And posting Felipe Alou quotes, wow. Just wow. Curt Shilling is about as bad.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SBoyd415 @ Jul 20 2007, 07:13 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I already named some of the teammates Ted Williams and Barry Bonds had, and it's painfully obvious Ted Williams' teammates have been better.</div>It's not just teammates. It's an entirely different part of the game. Apparently you don't understand how getting into scoring position works, so I won't try to explain it to someone new to the game.Runs and SB's can be accomplished without getting a hit as I said before, so it really has nothing to do with hitting. Ted has a better RBI/AB. It has nothing to do with "what if's." If you had each player in their prime, you would have to take Ted, because he is a better hitter. Longevity is basically your only argument, and Barry got that because of steroids (and because of other factors, such as money and improved training techniques).And posting Felipe Alou quotes, wow. Just wow. Curt Shilling is about as bad.
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Re: The Official "756" Thread
Will this record even matter? I mean it's gonna be special but you aren't gonna wait decades and wonder if it will ever be broken like the wait between when Aaron hit it and Bonds currently approaching it. Rodriguez should break it in the next decade.
Will this record even matter? I mean it's gonna be special but you aren't gonna wait decades and wonder if it will ever be broken like the wait between when Aaron hit it and Bonds currently approaching it. Rodriguez should break it in the next decade.
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Re: The Official "756" Thread
[quote name='SBoyd415' post='422096' date='Jul 21 2007, 05:55 PM']I'm positive I know a lot more about baseball than you do, especially when you argue that RBI's are not a fundamental stat of a hitter.[/quote]straw man fallacy, because I never said that[quote name='SBoyd415' post='422096' date='Jul 21 2007, 05:55 PM']I guess you also don't take into account that Ted Williams never played African-American players for the first half of his career (and I doubt there were many Latin players)[/quote]straw man fallacy, how the hell do you make a race issue out of this when I said absolutely nothing about race[quote name='SBoyd415' post='422096' date='Jul 21 2007, 05:55 PM']The only argument you've presented is Williams is better because he had more RBI's in less AB's (and that he would have been greater if he hadn't been in war for four years)[/quote]And that gold gloves and MVP's aren't a stat in any sense, and that Williams is better in every stat per time up to the plate than Bonds except HR's and runs. If you could pick a player in their prime to have in one game, it would Williams, unless you're a homer. I didn't say anything about the war. You're reading others people's posts and attributing them to me.[quote name='SBoyd415' post='422096' date='Jul 21 2007, 05:55 PM']If Bonds got "longevity" through steroids, how do you explain his constant knee problems and pulled hamstrings?[/quote]I don't know why you're putting longevity in quotes. It is an actual word with an actual meaning, you know. Steroids can cause problems in anatomy, because your body is designed genetically to be built a certain way. Steroids go against that mold. However, steroids can also help heal the body (I take this from the word of people who have actually used steroids). It's a two-way street. Every drug has positives and negatives.[quote name='SBoyd415' post='422096' date='Jul 21 2007, 05:55 PM']I also believe there's a certain player named Julio Franco who turns 49 next month and is still in the big leagues. Just because you're over 40 and playing well doesn't mean your on steroids...[/quote]I don't know where I said you couldn't get longevity apart from steroids. I'd love to see you quote me on that (Straw man fallacy again, of course). Regardless, I don't know if Julio Franco is or isn't on anything. He's also making a shitload more money than Ted Williams was I'd bet, and has better trainers. There's a lot of good reasons why Julio would play longer.[quote name='SBoyd415' post='422096' date='Jul 21 2007, 05:55 PM']I guess you don't realize Felipe Alou is one of the better player/managers the MLB has ever had, so I'd take his opinion over yours.[/quote]Lifetime .503 record managing. What a great skipper.
The point I was making was that he is crazy and senile, which has absolutely nothing to do with managing.[quote name='SBoyd415' post='422096' date='Jul 21 2007, 05:55 PM']Curt Schilling has publicly ripped Bonds before, so I don't understand how a quote from him is terrible...[/quote]He is generally regarded as an idiot. It has nothing to do with publicly saying or not saying anything. I just really don't care what someone's opinion on him is. If I cared, I would go look for it (and from a source that is actually respectable). I've seen the guy play before.
[quote name='SBoyd415' post='422096' date='Jul 21 2007, 05:55 PM']I'm positive I know a lot more about baseball than you do, especially when you argue that RBI's are not a fundamental stat of a hitter.[/quote]straw man fallacy, because I never said that[quote name='SBoyd415' post='422096' date='Jul 21 2007, 05:55 PM']I guess you also don't take into account that Ted Williams never played African-American players for the first half of his career (and I doubt there were many Latin players)[/quote]straw man fallacy, how the hell do you make a race issue out of this when I said absolutely nothing about race[quote name='SBoyd415' post='422096' date='Jul 21 2007, 05:55 PM']The only argument you've presented is Williams is better because he had more RBI's in less AB's (and that he would have been greater if he hadn't been in war for four years)[/quote]And that gold gloves and MVP's aren't a stat in any sense, and that Williams is better in every stat per time up to the plate than Bonds except HR's and runs. If you could pick a player in their prime to have in one game, it would Williams, unless you're a homer. I didn't say anything about the war. You're reading others people's posts and attributing them to me.[quote name='SBoyd415' post='422096' date='Jul 21 2007, 05:55 PM']If Bonds got "longevity" through steroids, how do you explain his constant knee problems and pulled hamstrings?[/quote]I don't know why you're putting longevity in quotes. It is an actual word with an actual meaning, you know. Steroids can cause problems in anatomy, because your body is designed genetically to be built a certain way. Steroids go against that mold. However, steroids can also help heal the body (I take this from the word of people who have actually used steroids). It's a two-way street. Every drug has positives and negatives.[quote name='SBoyd415' post='422096' date='Jul 21 2007, 05:55 PM']I also believe there's a certain player named Julio Franco who turns 49 next month and is still in the big leagues. Just because you're over 40 and playing well doesn't mean your on steroids...[/quote]I don't know where I said you couldn't get longevity apart from steroids. I'd love to see you quote me on that (Straw man fallacy again, of course). Regardless, I don't know if Julio Franco is or isn't on anything. He's also making a shitload more money than Ted Williams was I'd bet, and has better trainers. There's a lot of good reasons why Julio would play longer.[quote name='SBoyd415' post='422096' date='Jul 21 2007, 05:55 PM']I guess you don't realize Felipe Alou is one of the better player/managers the MLB has ever had, so I'd take his opinion over yours.[/quote]Lifetime .503 record managing. What a great skipper.
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Re: The Official "756" Thread
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SBoyd415 @ Jul 21 2007, 10:42 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I'm sure some of the best black players at the time would have some effect on Ted Williams. He only hit against them in the second half of your career. If you were to take any race out of the game today, the quality of it would go down, so Ted Williams wasn't playing the best of the best in the first half of his career, he was just playing the best white players.</div>There's not that many good black starting pitchers in the game. C.C Sabathia is pretty much the only one that comes to mind. So he'd be missing out on 3-4 pitchers. Big whoop.<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>Alright, so how do you think steroids helped Bonds? Do you think they helped him hit all those homeruns in 2001? I'm just wondering because people have different opinions on what steroids did to him...Steroids still don't make up for the fact that Bonds has been putting up solid power numbers every year of his career (except for 2001) and has one of the fastest, if not the fastest, bat in the MLB.</div>News flash, steroids help you get fast bat speed. That's the whole point. Do you not find it suspicious he jumps from 34 to 73 in one year, continues huge homerun numbers, and then drops dramatically right when the steroid investigation starts?<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>Hard to argue with this because they are completely different eras. You can't fault Franco for using trainers when they are available. Ted Williams would have done the same. And what does how much Julio Franco gets paid have to do with anything?</div>On a side note, Franco made it this long from his amazing diet. He's a strict vegetarian, and eats perfectly planned meals. He eats 20 raw eggs for breakfast for gods sake.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SBoyd415 @ Jul 21 2007, 10:42 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I'm sure some of the best black players at the time would have some effect on Ted Williams. He only hit against them in the second half of your career. If you were to take any race out of the game today, the quality of it would go down, so Ted Williams wasn't playing the best of the best in the first half of his career, he was just playing the best white players.</div>There's not that many good black starting pitchers in the game. C.C Sabathia is pretty much the only one that comes to mind. So he'd be missing out on 3-4 pitchers. Big whoop.<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>Alright, so how do you think steroids helped Bonds? Do you think they helped him hit all those homeruns in 2001? I'm just wondering because people have different opinions on what steroids did to him...Steroids still don't make up for the fact that Bonds has been putting up solid power numbers every year of his career (except for 2001) and has one of the fastest, if not the fastest, bat in the MLB.</div>News flash, steroids help you get fast bat speed. That's the whole point. Do you not find it suspicious he jumps from 34 to 73 in one year, continues huge homerun numbers, and then drops dramatically right when the steroid investigation starts?<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>Hard to argue with this because they are completely different eras. You can't fault Franco for using trainers when they are available. Ted Williams would have done the same. And what does how much Julio Franco gets paid have to do with anything?</div>On a side note, Franco made it this long from his amazing diet. He's a strict vegetarian, and eats perfectly planned meals. He eats 20 raw eggs for breakfast for gods sake.
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Re: The Official "756" Thread
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SBoyd415 @ Jul 21 2007, 10:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Huh? Ted Williams would have had to go against pitchers like Satchel Paige, not C.C. Sabathia...I don't think you did your homework on this one. Bonds had 49 homeruns before his 73 homerun season, and I never denied he used steroids in 2001. He's been a solid 35-40 homerun hitter almost his whole career (He hit 46 in 1993, his first year as a Giant...)</div>A 24 home run difference when he had been averaging 35-40 home runs a year is a big difference.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SBoyd415 @ Jul 21 2007, 10:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Huh? Ted Williams would have had to go against pitchers like Satchel Paige, not C.C. Sabathia...I don't think you did your homework on this one. Bonds had 49 homeruns before his 73 homerun season, and I never denied he used steroids in 2001. He's been a solid 35-40 homerun hitter almost his whole career (He hit 46 in 1993, his first year as a Giant...)</div>A 24 home run difference when he had been averaging 35-40 home runs a year is a big difference.
Re: The Official "756" Thread
[quote name='SBoyd415' post='422345' date='Jul 21 2007, 10:42 PM']I'm sure some of the best black players at the time would have some effect on Ted Williams. He only hit against them in the second half of your career. If you were to take any race out of the game today, the quality of it would go down, so Ted Williams wasn't playing the best of the best in the first half of his career, he was just playing the best white players.[/quote]That's funny. Just a minute ago weren't you talking about how we could say "what if's?" If I can't make a what if argument, neither can you.[quote name='SBoyd415' post='422096' date='Jul 21 2007, 05:55 PM']What are you talking about? Who you would pick would depend entirely on who you are talking to. People would mention Bonds, Williams, Ruth, Mays, etc. I don't see how you can just say Williams is the person everyone would want for one game.[/quote]I meant if you took an objective point of view.[quote name='SBoyd415' post='422096' date='Jul 21 2007, 05:55 PM']I probably am. If you disagree with The Captain in some way you should point it out b/c I can't keep track of what everyones opinions are on Williams/Bonds.[/quote]I don't disagree with him, but I didn't say any such thing. In fact, I don't think anyone said he would be "greater" if he didn't go to the war. They said he would have better stats. You're having trouble seperating great hitters from big numbers, which is the real problem I think everyone has with your argument.[quote name='SBoyd415' post='422096' date='Jul 21 2007, 05:55 PM']Alright, so how do you think steroids helped Bonds? Do you think they helped him hit all those homeruns in 2001? I'm just wondering because people have different opinions on what steroids did to him...Steroids still don't make up for the fact that Bonds has been putting up solid power numbers every year of his career (except for 2001) and has one of the fastest, if not the fastest, bat in the MLB.[/quote]I think they helped him hit a lot of home runs. People will argue that steroids do nothing for you, but I think it's common sense that they do. The single season HR record has been broken twice over the last decade after not being touched for decades. Steroids could possibly make up for it. I have no idea how long he's been using them, but I highly, highly doubt he started in 2001. Bat speed is directly related to strength. That is basic physics and should be common sense, but I guess not.[quote name='SBoyd415' post='422096' date='Jul 21 2007, 05:55 PM']Hard to argue with this because they are completely different eras. You can't fault Franco for using trainers when they are available. Ted Williams would have done the same. And what does how much Julio Franco gets paid have to do with anything?[/quote]I'm not "faulting" anyone. Jesus Christ. I said that these are reasons why Ted Williams has fewer seasons, fewer at bats, fewer runs, fewer RBI's, fewer homers, etc. [quote name='SBoyd415' post='422096' date='Jul 21 2007, 05:55 PM']You must have some personal vendetta against him or something. #51 on the all-time managers win list...[/quote]Once again, longevity makes someone great apparently.
51 isn't even that high.[quote name='SBoyd415' post='422096' date='Jul 21 2007, 05:55 PM']Once again, I'd take a MLB player or managers opinion of the guy over yours any day, especially when they have played against him.[/quote]I have yet to see a quote that says, "I played against Barry Bonds and Ted Williams, and Barry Bonds is better in my opinion." Who the hell puts faith in a player's OWN MANAGER'S OPINION for how great a player is? I can't believe you can see everyone else's bias but not your own at all.
[quote name='SBoyd415' post='422345' date='Jul 21 2007, 10:42 PM']I'm sure some of the best black players at the time would have some effect on Ted Williams. He only hit against them in the second half of your career. If you were to take any race out of the game today, the quality of it would go down, so Ted Williams wasn't playing the best of the best in the first half of his career, he was just playing the best white players.[/quote]That's funny. Just a minute ago weren't you talking about how we could say "what if's?" If I can't make a what if argument, neither can you.[quote name='SBoyd415' post='422096' date='Jul 21 2007, 05:55 PM']What are you talking about? Who you would pick would depend entirely on who you are talking to. People would mention Bonds, Williams, Ruth, Mays, etc. I don't see how you can just say Williams is the person everyone would want for one game.[/quote]I meant if you took an objective point of view.[quote name='SBoyd415' post='422096' date='Jul 21 2007, 05:55 PM']I probably am. If you disagree with The Captain in some way you should point it out b/c I can't keep track of what everyones opinions are on Williams/Bonds.[/quote]I don't disagree with him, but I didn't say any such thing. In fact, I don't think anyone said he would be "greater" if he didn't go to the war. They said he would have better stats. You're having trouble seperating great hitters from big numbers, which is the real problem I think everyone has with your argument.[quote name='SBoyd415' post='422096' date='Jul 21 2007, 05:55 PM']Alright, so how do you think steroids helped Bonds? Do you think they helped him hit all those homeruns in 2001? I'm just wondering because people have different opinions on what steroids did to him...Steroids still don't make up for the fact that Bonds has been putting up solid power numbers every year of his career (except for 2001) and has one of the fastest, if not the fastest, bat in the MLB.[/quote]I think they helped him hit a lot of home runs. People will argue that steroids do nothing for you, but I think it's common sense that they do. The single season HR record has been broken twice over the last decade after not being touched for decades. Steroids could possibly make up for it. I have no idea how long he's been using them, but I highly, highly doubt he started in 2001. Bat speed is directly related to strength. That is basic physics and should be common sense, but I guess not.[quote name='SBoyd415' post='422096' date='Jul 21 2007, 05:55 PM']Hard to argue with this because they are completely different eras. You can't fault Franco for using trainers when they are available. Ted Williams would have done the same. And what does how much Julio Franco gets paid have to do with anything?[/quote]I'm not "faulting" anyone. Jesus Christ. I said that these are reasons why Ted Williams has fewer seasons, fewer at bats, fewer runs, fewer RBI's, fewer homers, etc. [quote name='SBoyd415' post='422096' date='Jul 21 2007, 05:55 PM']You must have some personal vendetta against him or something. #51 on the all-time managers win list...[/quote]Once again, longevity makes someone great apparently.
51 isn't even that high.[quote name='SBoyd415' post='422096' date='Jul 21 2007, 05:55 PM']Once again, I'd take a MLB player or managers opinion of the guy over yours any day, especially when they have played against him.[/quote]I have yet to see a quote that says, "I played against Barry Bonds and Ted Williams, and Barry Bonds is better in my opinion." Who the hell puts faith in a player's OWN MANAGER'S OPINION for how great a player is? I can't believe you can see everyone else's bias but not your own at all.
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