The Official CJ McCollum Thread

[Jade Falcon]

Let's start an official thread here, where we can talk about CJ without clogging up the other threads.

What do you guys think of CJ right now? I love @BonesJones, but he seems to want to defend CJ at every turn. Whereas going on year 5 of CJ's tenure here, I'm a little less patient with him by this point.

Personally speaking, I'm less than thrilled with him. I think we should trade him and get someone who better fits this team. Preferably, someone who plays good Defense.

But who would that person be? And would they agree to stay here?

This isn't necessarily a trade thread, just a discussion about CJ. He's rather polarizing at the moment.

Discuss.

 

[Fez Hammersticks]

Philly seems like the most logical choice if we were to deal him.

Saric + Fultz?

Swing Fultz to a third team.

 

[andalusian]

Philly seems like the most logical choice if we were to deal him.

What for?

I will not pretend that CJ is the greatest player ever (he is not), but he is still a very good player, still before his prime and is clearly very smart - it makes no sense to trade him for the sake of making a trade.

 

[THE HCP]

You guys are quick as hell to make judgements on these guys good or bad. My man might just win us this game tomorrow night, then what?

 

[BonesJones]

Let's start an official thread here, where we can talk about CJ without clogging up the other threads.

What do you guys think of CJ right now? I love @BonesJones, but he seems to want to defend CJ at every turn. Whereas going on year 5 of CJ's tenure here, I'm a little less patient with him by this point.

Personally speaking, I'm less than thrilled with him. I think we should trade him and get someone who better fits this team. Preferably, someone who plays good Defense.

But who would that person be? And would they agree to stay here?

This isn't necessarily a trade thread, just a discussion about CJ. He's rather polarizing at the moment.

Discuss.

I think it's easy to hate on C.J., partly due to group thinking. He struggles at times with isolation but he's improved that this year, where he'll make a quick decision to drive or pass and won't continuously point the ball. He does miss open passes on some drives and that's a work in progress, but I find people searching for things to hate on him about ("He has 3 fouls at halftime" and " Game starts soon, can't wait ti watch the C.J. ISO show.")

If he improves that but flashes back to his old ways once out of every 10 games, people will use that one game as an excuse to constantly complain about him even through his improvements in play. He's become underappreciated.

 

[BonesJones]

What for?

I will not pretend that CJ is the greatest player ever (he is not), but he is still a very good player, still before his prime and is clearly very smart - it makes no sense to trade him for the sake of making a trade.

Exactly.

 

[Mediocre Man]

Why can't I see CJ pass the ball?

 

[Jade Falcon]

He does miss open passes on some drives and that's a work in progress

It's year 5, or close to it. How much longer are we going to make excuses for him?

We long ago stopped making excuses for Meyers. Why does CJ get a pass?

You really expect me to believe that he's suddenly going to turn into a passing SG this season who is reliable and can carry the team when necessary?

I agree with what everyone in the media has said: it's time to break up Dame/CJ.

I will say this though: only trade CJ if we can get a defensive-minded SG with a reliable 3 shot in return. Butler, for instance.

Otherwise, it's pointless for a one-year rental. Mind you, Butler would likely be a one year rental.

 

[BonesJones]

It's year 5, or close to it. How much longer are we going to make excuses for him?

We long ago stopped making excuses for Meyers. Why does CJ get a pass?

You really expect me to believe that he's suddenly going to turn into a passing SG this season who is reliable and can carry the team when necessary?

I agree with what everyone in the media has said: it's time to break up Dame/CJ.

I will say this though: only trade CJ if we can get a defensive-minded SG with a reliable 3 shot in return. Butler, for instance.

Otherwise, it's pointless for a one-year rental. Mind you, Butler would likely be a one year rental.

How is admitting what he does wrong an excuse?

You agree with the national media that also thinks that the Blazers should trade Dame for Lonzo and Kuzma? Okay.

 

[H.C.]

CJ is underappreciated.
CJ is too often compared to Lillard when their games are very, very different.
CJ had an amazing year a couple years ago, most posters are now disappointed in his game because most posters believed back then he was better than Lillard.

Only a few posters like @BonesJones a few others and myself were willing to see the differences in their games.
It's now clearly obvious who is the better player and people are disappointed that Portland doesn't have two 1st team all nba guards.

CJ isn't untouchable, but it would take an amazing offer to get him off the Blazers.
As it should.
I would never trade CJ + 1st rounder for Jimmy Butler without a signed contract in place.
With the organization wanting to give minutes to zach, I'm not trading CJ for a player who would take minutes away from him either.

 

[dviss1]

Why can't I see CJ pass the ball?

QUALITY post!

 

[Scalma]

I’m starting to settle in on him being who he is. It’s disappointing because he could be better, I mean he’s smart enough. I just haven’t seen much development since last season. Hes plateaued. He’s not a natural playmaker for others, and maybe tunnel vision just isn’t a thing that can be fixed.

The problem with trading him is his contract. He’s not worth the money he’s making. He’s paid like a superstar and isn’t even all star caliber. The only way we’d get anything of value in return is for a guy like Jimmy Butler, someone who isn’t locked up long term that a team is motivated to move.

But as long as Olshey keeps grouping him in the same sentence as Lillard, it’s all moot anyway. He’s going down with that ship. We’re just along for the ride.

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

CJ and Dames height is really the problem, the last time two starting guards of that height won a championship was when the Pistons won with Isaiah Thomas and Joe Dumars.

Im not going to say its impossible to win with them, but I think the lack of height and more importantly Length, creates challenges for them that other good teams dont have. This is highlighted even more by the fact neither are naturally great defenders anyways.

Almost all the contenders have a PG about dames height or in that ‘range’ and then 2-4 are all taller longer players. I wouldnt mind trading CJ for the right package especially if it means they’re playing a taller player at SG, but CJ is gifted enough that it does have to be the ‘right deal’, you dont trade him just to trade him, he’s too good for that.

 

[Shaboid]

I will take @riverman quarter by quarter philosophy and push it to a play by play philosophy.

If CJ gets into the lane while working in the offense then yes, shoot it.
If CJ gets a wide open jumper from 3 and in then yes, shoot it.
If CJ breaks 'em down completely because he has handles like few in the league and takes em to the rack, YES, CJ! SHOOT IT!

If not, pass the ball. That's a fan perspective, I'm no coach.

He's a shooting guard. That is his job. Do I wish he was a better defender and had more height, sure. But I wouldn't trade him for much less than him and a couple of our picks for Butler.

 

[Jade Falcon]

How is admitting what he does wrong an excuse?

You agree with the national media that also thinks that the Blazers should trade Dame for Lonzo and Kuzma? Okay.

Whoa there. Firstly, I didn't say I agree with EVERYTHING they said. Secondly, I've not heard one media talking head say that Portland should trade Dame for Lonzo. Even TNT isn't that bad.

I HAVE heard trolls in comment sections say that Lonzo is going to be traded for Dame. But that is lunacy from trolls in comment sections, not the national media.

Who knows....maybe I missed Shaq say it or something....

CJ is underappreciated.
CJ is too often compared to Lillard when their games are very, very different.
CJ had an amazing year a couple years ago, most posters are now disappointed in his game because most posters believed back then he was better than Lillard.

Only a few posters like @BonesJones a few others and myself were willing to see the differences in their games.
It's now clearly obvious who is the better player and people are disappointed that Portland doesn't have two 1st team all nba guards.

CJ isn't untouchable, but it would take an amazing offer to get him off the Blazers.
As it should.
I would never trade CJ + 1st rounder for Jimmy Butler without a signed contract in place.
With the organization wanting to give minutes to zach, I'm not trading CJ for a player who would take minutes away from him either.

I've never once thought that they were the same player. And in fact I've said numerous times that Dame is on a whole other level of skill compared to CJ. I don't think there's anyone on this forum who reasonably thinks they are the same player. But @TorturedBlazerFan made a good point about height, and we don't have length at the PG/SG position.

 

[Titan]

@Jade Falcon
This is from Zach Lowe, crazy NBA predictions.

The most enticing mega-trade on the board not involving Anthony Davis: Lillard to the Lakers for a package centered around Lonzo Ball. Lillard is a perfect fit next to LeBron, and LeBron respects Lillard's game, per sources familiar with the matter. The Lakers could absorb Lillard into cap space this summer without sending out giant matching salaries -- salaries they don't have on the books.

That is what others in the forum are probably referencing.

 

[hoopsjock]

It's year 5, or close to it. How much longer are we going to make excuses for him?

We long ago stopped making excuses for Meyers. Why does CJ get a pass?

You really expect me to believe that he's suddenly going to turn into a passing SG this season who is reliable and can carry the team when necessary?

I agree with what everyone in the media has said: it's time to break up Dame/CJ.

I will say this though: only trade CJ if we can get a defensive-minded SG with a reliable 3 shot in return. Butler, for instance.

Otherwise, it's pointless for a one-year rental. Mind you, Butler would likely be a one year rental.

Do you think CJ is a good shooter?

I was curious about Klay Thompson's numbers (mainly passing) and was surprised to see CJ has a much higher assist % (17 to 11) while basically committing the same amount of turnovers. Shooting numbers and almost all other stats are relatively close too. Defensive Box Plus/Minus is even as well. Win shares are in Klay's favor but he's played on much better teams and has 2 extra years. Check out the Per 36 numbers, I'd have a hard time finding a closer comparison as they are almost identical.
https://www.basketball-reference.co...=CJ+McCollum&player_id2=mccolcj01&idx=players

I think without looking at these numbers most people would say that Klay is a far superior player than CJ, but the numbers tell a different story that they are almost the same. I'm not saying I'd rather have CJ than Klay but I think this shows that CJ is better than some are giving him credit for. GS is an exceptional passing team but has an even bigger ball stopper in Klay. Shooters shoot the ball.

 

[Jade Falcon]

@Jade Falcon
This is from Zach Lowe, crazy NBA predictions.

The most enticing mega-trade on the board not involving Anthony Davis: Lillard to the Lakers for a package centered around Lonzo Ball. Lillard is a perfect fit next to LeBron, and LeBron respects Lillard's game, per sources familiar with the matter. The Lakers could absorb Lillard into cap space this summer without sending out giant matching salaries -- salaries they don't have on the books.

That is what others in the forum are probably referencing.

So in other words, a nobody whom I've only heard of in passing. A Google search of his name comes up with....no joke....a drawn picture of him.

Get back to me when it's more than him and some troll on Reddit. Nobody in this country with half a brain seriously considers such a stupid trade.

 

[oldmangrouch]

CJ is a good player, but it seemed pretty clear that he regressed last season instead of continuing to develop. There were times it seemed like he was trying too hard to get his, instead of thinking like part of a team.

I don't expect him to be Dame - but it would be nice if he would be the best player he can be.

 

[Jade Falcon]

Do you think CJ is a good shooter?

I was curious about Klay Thompson's numbers (mainly passing) and was surprised to see CJ has a much higher assist % (17 to 11) while basically committing the same amount of turnovers. Shooting numbers and almost all other stats are relatively close too. Defensive Box Plus/Minus is even as well. Win shares are in Klay's favor but he's played on much better teams and has 2 extra years. Check out the Per 36 numbers, I'd have a hard time finding a closer comparison as they are almost identical.
https://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.fcgi?request=1&sum=1&player_id1_hint=Klay Thompson&player_id1_select=Klay Thompson&player_id1=thompkl01&player_id2_hint=CJ McCollum&player_id2_select=CJ McCollum&player_id2=mccolcj01&idx=players

I think without looking at these numbers most people would say that Klay is a far superior player than CJ, but the numbers tell a different story that they are almost the same. I'm not saying I'd rather have CJ than Klay but I think this shows that CJ is better than some are giving him credit for. GS is an exceptional passing team but has an even bigger ball stopper in Klay. Shooters shoot the ball.

If he's a good shooter, then he sure isn't consistent. Klay has that in spades; he's smart enough, with better vision, to know when his shots aren't falling to try another tactic.

I will say CJ is a good mid-range elbow shooter. But he needs to be far more than that.

CJ is a good player, but it seemed pretty clear that he regressed last season instead of continuing to develop. There were times it seemed like he was trying too hard to get his, instead of thinking like part of a team.

I don't expect him to be Dame - but it would be nice if he would be the best player he can be.

Well said, thank you.

 

[hoopsjock]

If he's a good shooter, then he sure isn't consistent. Klay has that in spades; he's smart enough, with better vision, to know when his shots aren't falling to try another tactic.

I will say CJ is a good mid-range elbow shooter. But he needs to be far more than that.



Well said, thank you.

If you wanna bash CJ fine, but it's kind of bullshit to be presented with statistical evidence that shows you are making shit up and then double down on your hatred. The numbers don't even come close to showing that Klay has better vision, in fact they say that CJ has better vision. Quit making shit up otherwise you're just trolling and not having a discussion about it.

 

[Labinot41]

Cj aka (i have no teammates on the court) is the most dissapointment so far. That guy frustrates me when i see him going 1vs3 taking stupid shots. Not only is he Shooting under 40% (I know small sample size), he said to himself he want's to be a better playmaker, to Pass more and get to the free throw line more often, and what i've seen is: he's not even looking for teammates, he's still going Isolation every Team he has the Ball, he still not making the extra Pass to get someone an easyier shot. His Assists are down compared to last year. What impact brings he to Team when he's not Scoring? We saw it against Washington, fucking nothing!! He's completely useless when his shot is not falling. Now his Defenders will say: " but he get's a lot of attention what makes it easyier for the teammates blah blah blah" i give a damn if he get's attention , he has a Max Contract but is Never worth a Max Contract, he has to be Smarter and find a way to help the Team in a different way when his shot is not falling (wich happens a lot more often btw). At this point i Don't know how you can stil defend him, he is what he is and will Never change

 

[Titan]

So in other words, a nobody whom I've only heard of in passing. A Google search of his name comes up with....no joke....a drawn picture of him.

Get back to me when it's more than him and some troll on Reddit. Nobody in this country with half a brain seriously considers such a stupid trade.

Well duh, any post I see talking about trading Dame for like Lonzo or some other smuck, ... well it’s just easier to call that post stupid.

Also back on topic my eye test also thought Klay and CJ are similar on offense, but would gladly take Klay next to Dame any day or find a good 2-way player. With the way the game is going we need more players that can move their feet to keep their man in front without grabbing/holding. If CJ can get us that I would trade him.

 

[Jade Falcon]

If you wanna bash CJ fine, but it's kind of bullshit to be presented with statistical evidence that shows you are making shit up and then double down on your hatred. The numbers don't even come close to showing that Klay has better vision, in fact they say that CJ has better vision. Quit making shit up otherwise you're just trolling and not having a discussion about it.

Oh grow up. I don't hate CJ.

And are you honestly going to tell me you'd rather have CJ than Klay? Because, you know...."numbers".

I can tell you what's NOT bullshit: 60 points in 29 minutes.

How's that for numbers?

 

[Jade Falcon]

Cj aka (i have no teammates on the court) is the most dissapointment so far. That guy frustrates me when i see him going 1vs3 taking stupid shots. Not only is he Shooting under 40% (I know small sample size), he said to himself he want's to be a better playmaker, to Pass more and get to the free throw line more often, and what i've seen is: he's not even looking for teammates, he's still going Isolation every Team he has the Ball, he still not making the extra Pass to get someone an easyier shot. His Assists are down compared to last year. What impact brings he to Team when he's not Scoring? We saw it against Washington, fucking nothing!! He's completely useless when his shot is not falling. Now his Defenders will say: " but he get's a lot of attention what makes it easyier for the teammates blah blah blah" i give a damn if he get's attention , he has a Max Contract but is Never worth a Max Contract, he has to be Smarter and find a way to help the Team in a different way when his shot is not falling (wich happens a lot more often btw). At this point i Don't know how you can stil defend him, he is what he is and will Never change

Be careful! Apparently, it's illegal to be critical of CJ on this forum!

 

[Labinot41]

Be careful! Apparently, it's illegal to be critical of CJ on this forum!

My oppionion is my oppionion and i Don't care what other people think. Cj could shot 1/50FG without an Assist and those guys would stil defend him.

 

[Jade Falcon]

I want to make it clear here: I DO like CJ. Quite a lot, actually. He's excellent on the mic, and he's got good attitude when needed on the court.

I will criticize him when necessary, but I also enjoy and acknowledge when he plays well. No different than with Meyers....and I don't like Meyers. At all. Or Turner, for that matter.

Compared to them, CJ is the Second Coming.

 

[noknobs]

Love CJ. Let me know if you have any other questions.

 

[Scalma]

Williams is making $8m this year, which is the most he’s ever made. CJ meanwhile is among the 20 highest paid players in the league. But we’re haters. Lol.

 

[Driew]

Ant will replace CJ in two years.

Edit: This is assuming that NO is kept as GM with the new owner.