The official Nurk, the shoulder thread

[dviss1]

Cop out. Plain and simple.
Apples to Oranges.

Name one job where people who have no clue how to do the job can show up and yell at the person who's doing the job to do it....

I'll wait.

 

[Orion Bailey]

I have been keeping up.

All complaints aren't whines. Some are Legitimate concerns that are conveyed in a respectful manner.

There you go. You can see why I jumped to my conclusion though based on the posts.

But even respectful discussions can go bad based on one of the two parties not being open. I've seen some Refs just ignore coaches who aren't flipping out.

 

[dviss1]

Cop out. Plain and simple.
Apples to Oranges.

It's not apples to oranges. I don't tell him how to do his job. He doesn't need to tell me how to do mine especially when he doesn't have the view that I have on the floor. If he has a better view why am I running up and down the court? I should just stand and watch the game with him and save my energy since he can see everything from his perch...

 

[BBert]

Name one job where people who have no clue how to do the job can show up and yell at the person who's doing the job to do it....

I'll wait.

Professional athlete.
Professional referee.
Selfless Public Servant.

 

[dviss1]

There you go. You can see why I jumped to my conclusion though based on the posts.

But even respectful discussions can go bad based on one of the two parties not being open. I've seen some Refs just ignore coaches who aren't flipping out.

You're supposed to ignore coaches and focus on the game.

Learn the game then post.

 

[Orion Bailey]

Name one job where people who have no clue how to do the job can show up and yell at the person who's doing the job to do it....

I'll wait.

Come on man... I have to spell this out?

A coach studies the rules of the game he plays, so yes his knowledge will be similar to a ref. Because he must know the rules in order to succeed.

A ref does not need to know how a picknroll goes, or when a coach should call a time out because it doesn't matter to him in order to do his job properly.

Come on now.

Apples to oranges.

 

[Orion Bailey]

You're supposed to ignore coaches and focus on the game.

Learn the game then post.

And that's my point in a nutshell. double standard to ignore the coach. Makes it look like the ref is all high and mighty and better than thou and cant make a mistake.

 

[dviss1]

Professional athlete.
Professional referee.
Selfless Public Servant.

Exactly. So since the coach has no clue of how to do my job, he shouldn't tell me how to do it. Coaches hardly even know the rules.

 

[dviss1]

Come on man... I have to spell this out?

A coach studies the rules of the game he plays, so yes his knowledge will be similar to a ref. Because he must know the rules in order to succeed.

A ref does not need to know how a picknroll goes, or when a coach should call a time out because it doesn't matter to him in order to do his job properly.

Come on now.

Apples to oranges.

How do you officiate a pick-and-roll properly if you don't know how it's supposed to be fundamentally done?

And you have absolutely no clue when you talk about coaches having knowledge similar to referees. I explain simple rules to coaches thousands of times per year.

You're not making sense...

 

[Orion Bailey]

Exactly. So since the coach has no clue of how to do my job, he shouldn't tell me how to do it. Coaches hardly even know the rules.

Im starting to question your ref knowledge and how you think it should go.

A coach may not know how to ref, but a coach knows what a foul is, what a double dribble is. to say a coach has no clue is simply ignorant....

Saying Coaches hardly know the rules is also ignorance. Maybe on the high school level, but if you don't think professional NBA coaches don't have a good grasp on the rules, then I don't know what to say....Lost my faith in your knowledge on this topic I suppose.

Is it possible that the games you ref are MUCH different than NBA games, but you are thinking they are the same?and the coaches are the same?

 

[dviss1]

And that's my point in a nutshell. double standard to ignore the coach. Makes it look like the ref is all high and mighty and better than thou and cant make a mistake.

That's one way to look at it. Another way would be that the service that's being done for the kids that are playing deserves Focus and a whiny coach complaining about something marginal taking away from that Focus does a disservice to the game and the kids playing it.

 

[Orion Bailey]

How do you officiate a pick-and-roll properly if you don't know how it's supposed to be fundamentally done?

And you have absolutely no clue when you talk about coaches having knowledge similar to referees. I explain simple rules to coaches thousands of times per year.

You're not making sense...

I think you are mixing up professional NBA coaches with high school coaches that also teach classes... HUGE difference I would think you would know the difference in knowledge between the two types of coaches.

How many NBA coaches have you had to educate????

 

[dviss1]

Im starting to question your ref knowledge and how you think it should go.

A coach may not know how to ref, but a coach knows what a foul is, what a double dribble is. to say a coach has no clue is simply ignorant....

Saying Coaches hardly know the rules is also ignorance. Maybe on the high school level, but if you don't think professional NBA coaches don't have a good grasp on the rules, then I don't know what to say....Lost my faith in your knowledge on this topic I suppose.

Is it possible that the games you ref are MUCH different than NBA games, but you are thinking they are the same?and the coaches are the same?

I'll give this whole fourum my schedule and all of you can show up to any one of my games.

 

[dviss1]

I think you are mixing up professional NBA coaches with high school coaches that also teach classes... HUGE difference I would think you would know the difference in knowledge between the two types of coaches.

How many NBA coaches have you had to educate????

Get a whistle and a clue. All referees in the NBA do is explain calls.

 

[Orion Bailey]

D, it is clear you are unable to separate the games you coach with the ones that happen in the NBA. I can only hope you know they are much different right? The knowledge base of the players and coaches will be vastly different right?

We are discussing an NBA game and/or games here right?

It is you who is not making sense. Sorry.

 

[Orion Bailey]

Get a whistle and a clue. All referees in the NBA do is explain calls.

LMAO.....

And explain how they were wrong too right?
LMAO.

Sorry. This isn't going anywhere. Its clear you have your opinion and I have mine.
I think its a two way street and refs should respect coaches the same as they demand respect from the coaches. I get the feeling you believe coaches are idiots and refs know it all.
We will have to agree to disagree.

 

[dviss1]

Im starting to question your ref knowledge and how you think it should go.

A coach may not know how to ref, but a coach knows what a foul is, what a double dribble is. to say a coach has no clue is simply ignorant....

Saying Coaches hardly know the rules is also ignorance. Maybe on the high school level, but if you don't think professional NBA coaches don't have a good grasp on the rules, then I don't know what to say....Lost my faith in your knowledge on this topic I suppose.

Is it possible that the games you ref are MUCH different than NBA games, but you are thinking they are the same?and the coaches are the same?

Spoken like someone who assumes too much and has never been in the position to actually know... Most coaches don't even know simple rules like 3 seconds and the over and back rule.

 

[dviss1]

LMAO.....

And explain how they were wrong too right?
LMAO.

Sorry. This isn't going anywhere. Its clear you have your opinion and I have mine.
I think its a two way street and refs should respect coaches the same as they demand respect from the coaches. I get the feeling you believe coaches are idiots and refs know it all.
We will have to agree to disagree.

I was a coach so no...

 

[Orion Bailey]

Spoken like someone who assumes too much and has never been in the position to actually know... Most coaches don't even know simple rules like 3 seconds and the over and back rule.

I was a coach so no...

Again. In the NBA or highschool? do you not acknowledge that the bbiq might be slightly higher in the NBA vs those you work with?

Ughhh.....

But I am the assumptiuous one eh? lol.

 

[Scalma]

Spoken like someone who assumes too much and has never been in the position to actually know... Most coaches don't even know simple rules like 3 seconds and the over and back rule.

In the NBA? Please.

 

[dviss1]

In the NBA? Please.

Please without googling tell me what needs to occur for the ball to be established in front court. You have 2 minutes.

Edit: if you know the answer you know the answer but anything longer than 2 minutes and I will assume you will have Googled it.

 

[Orion Bailey]

Please without googling tell me what needs to occur for the ball to be established in front court. You have 2 minutes.

What the hell does Scalmas answer have anything to do with the BBIQ being different for coaches in high school vs the NBA?
Great dodge on that one. Way to avoid the point....

I think you know I got respect for you, as we have discussed in the past, but I don't see how you can't see that point?

With that ideology, then a grade school science teacher has the same knowledge as a college professor of science right?

 

[Scalma]

Please without googling tell me what needs to occur for the ball to be established in front court. You have 2 minutes.

Edit: if you know the answer you know the answer but anything longer than 2 minutes and I will assume you will have Googled it.

Two feet and ball, I don't know I'm not a ref. But if it can be googled in two minutes I think it's safe to assume an NBA coach knows the rule.

And you said 3 seconds and over the back. Those are easy.

 

[dviss1]

Two feet and ball, I don't know I'm not a ref. But if it can be googled in two minutes I think it's safe to assume an NBA coach knows the rule.

And you said 3 seconds and over the back. Those are easy.

Most don't know that you can go back if both feet have gone across but the ball hasn't. Yes NBA coaches included. Most also don't know you can stand in the key for 10.8 seconds (12.8 NCAA/HS) and it be completely legal.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

Most don't know that you can go back if both feet have gone across but the ball hasn't. Yes NBA coaches included. Most also don't know you can stand in the key for 10.8 seconds (12.8 NCAA/HS) and it be completely legal.

You've had coaches try to tell you that you should have called a 3 second violation before the ball crossed half-court?

 

[Scalma]

I don't think I can agree with a take that can be summed up as "NBA coaches are stupid."

This convo is going nowhere. I don't even know what we're talking about anymore. I'll just leave it.

 

[dviss1]

You've had coaches try to tell you that you should have called a 3 second violation before the ball crossed half-court?

All the time. The ask for it after 50 shots have gone up too.

 

[dviss1]

I don't think I can agree with a take that can be summed up as "NBA coaches are stupid."

This convo is going nowhere. I don't even know what we're talking about anymore. I'll just leave it.

I never said they're stupid. I never said all complaining is whining. These are things you and OB are somehow garnering from this.

What I said was is they don't know the rules and have to have them constantly explained to them. How many NBA coaches still believe you have to have set feet to take a charge? I wanted to throw something at my TV every time I heard Mike Rice say "he wasn't set".

To take a charge you do not have to have set feet nor have you ever had to have set feet. You may be moving and take a charge.

 

[Trackjack]

I noticed a 'suspected' make-up call last night. We got called for a foul that wasn't; both Dame and Stotts 'explained' it to the refs; next time back we got away with a clear one. Funny, the fans didn't boo the gift but they did the 'missed' one.

Coaches does ask referee to watch something out on the floor seeing and maybe the refs are missing. Refereeing is about getting the right angles to call the game.

 

[Orion Bailey]

I never said they're stupid. I never said all complaining is whining. These are things you and OB are somehow garnering from this.

What I said was is they don't know the rules and have to have them constantly explained to them. How many NBA coaches still believe you have to have set feet to take a charge? I wanted to throw something at my TV every time I heard Mike Rice say "he wasn't set".

To take a charge you do not have to have set feet nor have you ever had to have set feet. You may be moving and take a charge.

I pointed out how I came to my conclusion.

I am simply stuck at why you cant understand that BBIQ is going to be different at different levels. You haven't responded once to that, and seem to keep avoiding the point. As long as you do, I can only discern that you think they are all the same, which brings me back to my same question
A college professor of science is no more knowledgeable than a grade school teacher of science, right?

Do you care to expand on the NBA level coaches you have had to educate vs the highschool?

There is a very real distinction between the two you are curiously avoiding.