The official Nurk, the shoulder thread

[stampedehero]

Inspiration!!!! His mom must have this pic on the cottage wall.

 

[Scalma]

I never said they're stupid. I never said all complaining is whining. These are things you and OB are somehow garnering from this.

What I said was is they don't know the rules and have to have them constantly explained to them. How many NBA coaches still believe you have to have set feet to take a charge? I wanted to throw something at my TV every time I heard Mike Rice say "he wasn't set".

To take a charge you do not have to have set feet nor have you ever had to have set feet. You may be moving and take a charge.

You may as well call them stupid, I mean come on.

 

[Scalma]

And mike rice? He doesn't even know what year it is, that's your example?

 

[dviss1]

You may as well call them stupid, I mean come on.

Those are your words. NBA coaches have a lot of other things to focus on. Again rules are constantly being misinterpreted and we interpreters do just that all game long. Interpret.

 

[Dougnsalem]

Name one job where people who have no clue how to do the job can show up and yell at the person who's doing the job to do it....

I'll wait.

I know this one!

A corrections officer.

 

[dviss1]

And mike rice? He doesn't even know what year it is, that's your example?

He's one of the many announcers and former coaches who says that.

 

[dviss1]

I know this one!

A corrections officer.

 

[Trackjack]

Put this way I have seen bad official and good officiall at all level it just going be like that in this game. Vice versa as coaches too. I have done both and yes I seen some coaches with no knowledge of the game. I also seen official and some how dont blow there whistle on anything. I have had coaches come out to referee with me at lower levels also and most of them tell its lot harder than it looks.

 

[Orion Bailey]

@dviss1

I pointed out how I came to my conclusion.

I am simply stuck at why you cant understand that BBIQ is going to be different at different levels. You haven't responded once to that, and seem to keep avoiding the point. As long as you do, I can only discern that you think they are all the same, which brings me back to my same question
A college professor of science is no more knowledgeable than a grade school teacher of science, right?

Do you care to expand on the NBA level coaches you have had to educate vs the highschool?

There is a very real distinction between the two you are curiously avoiding.

 

[Orion Bailey]

@dviss1

I pointed out how I came to my conclusion.

I am simply stuck at why you cant understand that BBIQ is going to be different at different levels. You haven't responded once to that, and seem to keep avoiding the point. As long as you do, I can only discern that you think they are all the same, which brings me back to my same question
A college professor of science is no more knowledgeable than a grade school teacher of science, right?

Do you care to expand on the NBA level coaches you have had to educate vs the highschool?

There is a very real distinction between the two you are curiously avoiding.

 

[Orion Bailey]

@dviss1

I pointed out how I came to my conclusion.

I am simply stuck at why you cant understand that BBIQ is going to be different at different levels. You haven't responded once to that, and seem to keep avoiding the point. As long as you do, I can only discern that you think they are all the same, which brings me back to my same question
A college professor of science is no more knowledgeable than a grade school teacher of science, right?

Do you care to expand on the NBA level coaches you have had to educate vs the highschool?

There is a very real distinction between the two you are curiously avoiding.

 

[dviss1]

@dviss1

I stopped reading when you tell me I can't understand...

 

[Orion Bailey]

I stopped reading when you tell me I can't understand...

Huh? I didnt said that. I said I don't see how you cant understand. Meaning I think you do and im confused.

And I said how can you not understand that? which is a question, not a statement.

I am asking for you to show me you understand.

Man you are whimping out here...

I don't need a response. your silence and avoidance of the initial question is enough. You didn't respond prior to me saying I don't think you understand. The reason I said that or asked that is BECAUSE you didn't respond.

You have avoided the question about BBIQ from the get go.

Great double standard on a healthy debate.....

Your response above is about the same as this analogy:


You dont wanna play the game by my rules? then Im taking my ball and going home....


HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Come on D you are better than this....Ive seen it.

 

[dviss1]

Huh? I didnt said that. I said I don't see how you cant understand. Meaning I think you do and im confused.

And I said how can you not understand that? which is a question, not a statement.

I am asking for you to show me you understand.

Man you are whimping out here...

I don't need a response. your silence and avoidance of the initial question is enough. You didn't respond prior to me saying I don't think you understand. The reason I said that or asked that is BECAUSE you didn't respond.

You have avoided the question about BBIQ from the get go.

Great double standard on a healthy debate.....

Your response above is about the same as this analogy:


You dont wanna play the game by my rules? then Im taking my ball and going home....


HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Come on D you are better than this....Ive seen it.

I've decided not to debate with people who start questioning my knowledge because I've never refereed NBA. My mentor is an NBA evaluator... He still evaluates NBA referees today... Those same people don't have at least 7500 hours of giving rules interpretation. Then to ask silly (rhetorical) questions about whether or not BBIQ is higher at the NBA level than at the NCAA/HS levels... That's just a silly question that you want me to answer so it will fit with your narrative. We both already know the answer to it.

My contention is that coaches at every level misinterpret and flat out do not know some rules as one of the main jobs a referee has is to be a rules interpreter.

75% of those conversations you see (damn near every call) are referees interpreting why the whistle was blown.

 

[Strenuus]

Come on man... I have to spell this out?

A coach studies the rules of the game he plays, so yes his knowledge will be similar to a ref. Because he must know the rules in order to succeed.

A ref does not need to know how a picknroll goes, or when a coach should call a time out because it doesn't matter to him in order to do his job properly.

Come on now.

Apples to oranges.

LOL. I umpired for 5 years and coaches knew SHIT about baseball rules so many times...

Just because they coach they do not know that much about the rules... it was eye opening when I became an umpire.

 

[Strenuus]

I've decided not to debate with people who start questioning my knowledge because I've never refereed NBA. My mentor is an NBA evaluator... He still evaluates NBA referees today... Those same people don't have at least 7500 hours of giving rules interpretation. Then to ask silly (rhetorical) questions about whether or not BBIQ is higher at the NBA level than at the NCAA/HS levels... That's just a silly question that you want me to answer so it will fit with your narrative. We both already know the answer to it.

My contention is that coaches at every level misinterpret and flat out do not know some rules as one of the main jobs a referee has is to be a rules interpreter.

75% of those conversations you see (damn near every call) are referees interpreting why the whistle was blown.

Every level of competitive sport (HS, College, Professional) I would easily gather most do not know all the rules.

I had to explain the infield fly rule to a former MLB player who was coaching a wood bat league.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

Every level of competitive sport (HS, College, Professional) I would easily gather most do not know all the rules.

I had to explain the infield fly rule to a former MLB player who was coaching a wood bat league.

Great, then that means you can explain it to me. Thanks in advance.

 

[Orion Bailey]

I would love specifics.

I cannot wrap my head around professional level coaches not knowing the rules. Doesn't make sense at all.

Have ANY of you actually had conversations with NBA or MLB coaches and come to this conclusion? Or are you basing it off of what you see on tv and conversations with friends and comparing that to your own local experience coaching high school and T-ball, etc?

Simply unfathomable. Sorry. I may be wrong, but wont be able to believe it without some decent proof in my face.

I mean, wouldn't you think that if this were the case then coaches would study the rule book inside and out to have an edge on all the other coaches who don't know anything?

 

[Orion Bailey]

I've decided not to debate with people who start questioning my knowledge because I've never refereed NBA. My mentor is an NBA evaluator... He still evaluates NBA referees today... Those same people don't have at least 7500 hours of giving rules interpretation. Then to ask silly (rhetorical) questions about whether or not BBIQ is higher at the NBA level than at the NCAA/HS levels... That's just a silly question that you want me to answer so it will fit with your narrative. We both already know the answer to it.

My contention is that coaches at every level misinterpret and flat out do not know some rules as one of the main jobs a referee has is to be a rules interpreter.

75% of those conversations you see (damn near every call) are referees interpreting why the whistle was blown.

I only questioned it after you wouldn't acknowledge the BBIQ that we brought up. Don't get all butt hurt. Defend yourself with your knowledge if you indeed know more than NBA coaches.
All good though.
I know the proof I am looking for is not easily obtained, if it is even there at all.

 

[Mediocre Man]

I've decided not to debate with people who start questioning my knowledge because I've never refereed NBA. My mentor is an NBA evaluator... He still evaluates NBA referees today... Those same people don't have at least 7500 hours of giving rules interpretation. Then to ask silly (rhetorical) questions about whether or not BBIQ is higher at the NBA level than at the NCAA/HS levels... That's just a silly question that you want me to answer so it will fit with your narrative. We both already know the answer to it.

My contention is that coaches at every level misinterpret and flat out do not know some rules as one of the main jobs a referee has is to be a rules interpreter.

75% of those conversations you see (damn near every call) are referees interpreting why the whistle was blown.

Ive been a coach for 30 years at different levels....none higher than JC, and I can assure you after hours and hours of studying the rule book, I don't know all the rules, or how to interpret some rules.

 

[riverman]

There isn't one referee who will tell you that a whiny coach/player/spectator influenced their call.

sorry dviss....I'd guess there's more than one but this guy wrote the book

 

[Strenuus]

Great, then that means you can explain it to me. Thanks in advance.

Infield fly rule, as easily as I can explain it, is runners on first and second or bases loaded with less than 2 outs. The ball must be in fair territory and by the umpires judgement, be a batted ball that can be 'routinely' caught by an infielder.

The right way for the umpire to adjudicate the call verbally is, with their right index finger in the air, say "Infield fly, Infield fly, batter is out, runners move at their own risk." Though, the last part doesn't really need to be said, I always threw it in there for fun. If the ball is close to the foul line you do say "Infield fly, if fair".

 

[PtldPlatypus]

Infield fly rule, as easily as I can explain it, is runners on first and second or bases loaded with less than 2 outs. The ball must be in fair territory and by the umpires judgement, be a batted ball that can be 'routinely' caught by an infielder.

The right way for the umpire to adjudicate the call verbally is, with their right index finger in the air, say "Infield fly, Infield fly, batter is out, runners move at their own risk." Though, the last part doesn't really need to be said, I always threw it in there for fun. If the ball is close to the foul line you do say "Infield fly, if fair".

So, it's basically in effect whenever the umpire decides it is.

 

[Strenuus]

I would love specifics.

I cannot wrap my head around professional level coaches not knowing the rules. Doesn't make sense at all.

Have ANY of you actually had conversations with NBA or MLB coaches and come to this conclusion? Or are you basing it off of what you see on tv and conversations with friends and comparing that to your own local experience coaching high school and T-ball, etc?

Simply unfathomable. Sorry. I may be wrong, but wont be able to believe it without some decent proof in my face.

I mean, wouldn't you think that if this were the case then coaches would study the rule book inside and out to have an edge on all the other coaches who don't know anything?

if you want any proof: It's all right here - http://www.closecallsports.com/

Spend an hour there. All the perspective is in there. Videos, breakdowns, umpires talking to one another, rule interpretations - all from the professional level. It's the best I can do to show you.

Their stories are just as good as the ones we can tell - you just can't listen to ours because we can't prove it - and I feel you'll discredit, anyway.

Also, T-ball doesn't have "umpires". That felt like an insult.

 

[Strenuus]

So, it's basically in effect whenever the umpire decides it is.

The infield fly is in effect during those scenarios regardless (R on 1st and 2, or bases loaded, less than 2 outs). The only time the "umpire decides it" is if it's either a question of fair/foul or it's starting to not become routine for an infielder to make the play (I.E. if the infielder is sprinting towards the outfielder and is clearly not going to be catching it in a still-stand position).

That's where the judgement comes in. There was a play in Atlanta during the playoffs that was called an infield fly that I really think shouldn't have... still bugs me to this day. I'll have to find the video. That's the only time I can remember being like "Umm... no, that's completely wrong."

 

[Orion Bailey]

if you want any proof: It's all right here - http://www.closecallsports.com/

Spend an hour there. All the perspective is in there. Videos, breakdowns, umpires talking to one another, rule interpretations - all from the professional level. It's the best I can do to show you.

Their stories are just as good as the ones we can tell - you just can't listen to ours because we can't prove it - and I feel you'll discredit, anyway.

Also, T-ball doesn't have "umpires". That felt like an insult.

Thanks,
No insult intended, was just trying to pick the lowest division of sports I could think of and have the full spectrum provided.

 

[chzbrgr]

Name one job where people who have no clue how to do the job can show up and yell at the person who's doing the job to do it....

I'll wait.

Literally anyone in any service industry has had this happen to them. Ref's are not some special hot button for criticism that happens no where else in society. Players get the same treatment, so do coaches. Get over it.

 

[Trackjack]

You know doesn't matter what sport your in by it is player or a coach even official if your not learning about something about the game everyday then your properly not progressing in the sport. Due to they are always changing thing in the game,

 

[dviss1]

I would love specifics.

I cannot wrap my head around professional level coaches not knowing the rules. Doesn't make sense at all.

Have ANY of you actually had conversations with NBA or MLB coaches and come to this conclusion? Or are you basing it off of what you see on tv and conversations with friends and comparing that to your own local experience coaching high school and T-ball, etc?

Simply unfathomable. Sorry. I may be wrong, but wont be able to believe it without some decent proof in my face.

I mean, wouldn't you think that if this were the case then coaches would study the rule book inside and out to have an edge on all the other coaches who don't know anything?

The next get together I'll bring a rule book. Trust me, it's SUPER hard to comprehend and interpret.

 

[dviss1]

Literally anyone in any service industry has had this happen to them. Ref's are not some special hot button for criticism that happens no where else in society. Players get the same treatment, so do coaches. Get over it.

Foolish statement.