illmatic99
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The Official S2 NBA Lockout Thread!
- Thread starter THE HCP
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THE HCP
NorthEastPortland'sFinest
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Sterns letter to Union.......
In Letter to Union, Stern Details His Ultimatum
By HOWARD BECK
Published: November 7, 2011
The ultimatum issued by the N.B.A. to its players over the weekend not only threatens them with a worse labor deal, but also a massive pay cut if they do not make a deal by Wednesday afternoon.
A letter sent by David Stern, the commissioner of the N.B.A., to the players union Sunday contrasts the proposal on the table — highlighted by a 50-50 split of revenues — with a “reset” proposal that would cut the players’ share to 47 percent, roll back current contracts, impose a hard salary cap and reduce contract lengths.
The salary rollback, which was part of the N.B.A.’s first controversial proposal in 2010, had not been included in any league proposal for many months, and it was not publicly mentioned by Stern when he announced the ultimatum Saturday night.
But the rollback was included in the letter Stern sent to Billy Hunter, the union’s executive director. A copy of the letter was obtained by The New York Times.
The union has until 5 p.m. Wednesday to accept the N.B.A.’s last proposal or have it replaced by the reset proposal, Stern wrote.
“Rather than simply proceeding, as we could have, to offer a less favorable proposal at this time, the N.B.A. is providing an additional period of time for the players association to consider our 50/50 proposal,” Stern wrote. “We are hopeful that the prospect of a less favorable outcome for the players will prompt the players association to realize that the best deal that can be reached is the one the N.B.A. is prepared to make right now.”
Stern closes, “Billy, I sincerely hope that we can reach an agreement over the next few days.”
The N.B.A.’s current proposal to the players includes a soft salary cap, a 50 percent share of revenues for players and these features:
¶ Salary-cap and luxury-tax levels in Years 1 and 2 of the new agreement will be no less than they were in 2010-11. By Year 3, they will be adjusted downward to conform to the new system.
¶ Sign-and-trade deals and the biannual exception will be available only to nontaxpaying teams.
¶ Extend-and-trade deals, such as the one signed by Carmelo Anthony last season, will be prohibited.
¶ The midlevel exception will be set at $5 million for nontaxpaying teams, with a maximum length between three and four years (alternating annually). The value of the exception will grow by 3 percent annually, starting in Year 3.
¶ The midlevel exception will be set at $2.5 million for taxpaying teams, with a maximum length of two years, and cannot be used in consecutive years. Its value will also grow at 3 percent annually.
¶ A 10 percent escrow tax will be withheld from player salaries, to ensure that player earnings do not exceed 50 percent of league revenues. An additional withholding will be applied in Year 1 “to account for business uncertainty” stemming from the lockout.
¶ Maximum contract lengths will be five years for “Bird” free agents and four years for others.
¶ Annual contract increases will be 5.5 percent for “Bird” players and 3.5 percent for others.
¶ Players will be paid a prorated share of their 2011-12 salaries, based on the number of games played once the season starts.
¶ Team and player contract options will be prohibited in new contracts, other than rookie deals. But a player can opt out of the final year of a contract if he agrees to zero salary protection (i.e., if it is nonguaranteed).
The “reset” proposal features a flex-cap system that contains an absolute salary ceiling — to be set $5 million above the average team salary. In addition, the N.B.A. would roll back existing contracts “in proportion to system changes in order to ensure sufficient market for free agents.”
The other major differences in the “reset” proposal are:
¶ The midlevel exception would be set at $3 million in Year 1, with a maximum length of three years, and would grow at 3 percent annually.
¶ Maximum salaries would be reduced.
¶ Sign-and-trade rules would remain consistent with the 2005 labor deal.
¶ Contracts would be limited to four years for “Bird” free agents and three years for others, but each team could give a five-year deal to one designated player.
¶ Raises would be limited to 4.5 percent for “Bird” players and 3.5 percent for others.
¶ Changes requested by the union on restricted free agency rules and salary-cap holds would not be included.
Both proposals include an “amnesty” provision that will allow every team to waive one player and have 100 percent of his salary removed from the cap.
In Letter to Union, Stern Details His Ultimatum
By HOWARD BECK
Published: November 7, 2011
The ultimatum issued by the N.B.A. to its players over the weekend not only threatens them with a worse labor deal, but also a massive pay cut if they do not make a deal by Wednesday afternoon.
A letter sent by David Stern, the commissioner of the N.B.A., to the players union Sunday contrasts the proposal on the table — highlighted by a 50-50 split of revenues — with a “reset” proposal that would cut the players’ share to 47 percent, roll back current contracts, impose a hard salary cap and reduce contract lengths.
The salary rollback, which was part of the N.B.A.’s first controversial proposal in 2010, had not been included in any league proposal for many months, and it was not publicly mentioned by Stern when he announced the ultimatum Saturday night.
But the rollback was included in the letter Stern sent to Billy Hunter, the union’s executive director. A copy of the letter was obtained by The New York Times.
The union has until 5 p.m. Wednesday to accept the N.B.A.’s last proposal or have it replaced by the reset proposal, Stern wrote.
“Rather than simply proceeding, as we could have, to offer a less favorable proposal at this time, the N.B.A. is providing an additional period of time for the players association to consider our 50/50 proposal,” Stern wrote. “We are hopeful that the prospect of a less favorable outcome for the players will prompt the players association to realize that the best deal that can be reached is the one the N.B.A. is prepared to make right now.”
Stern closes, “Billy, I sincerely hope that we can reach an agreement over the next few days.”
The N.B.A.’s current proposal to the players includes a soft salary cap, a 50 percent share of revenues for players and these features:
¶ Salary-cap and luxury-tax levels in Years 1 and 2 of the new agreement will be no less than they were in 2010-11. By Year 3, they will be adjusted downward to conform to the new system.
¶ Sign-and-trade deals and the biannual exception will be available only to nontaxpaying teams.
¶ Extend-and-trade deals, such as the one signed by Carmelo Anthony last season, will be prohibited.
¶ The midlevel exception will be set at $5 million for nontaxpaying teams, with a maximum length between three and four years (alternating annually). The value of the exception will grow by 3 percent annually, starting in Year 3.
¶ The midlevel exception will be set at $2.5 million for taxpaying teams, with a maximum length of two years, and cannot be used in consecutive years. Its value will also grow at 3 percent annually.
¶ A 10 percent escrow tax will be withheld from player salaries, to ensure that player earnings do not exceed 50 percent of league revenues. An additional withholding will be applied in Year 1 “to account for business uncertainty” stemming from the lockout.
¶ Maximum contract lengths will be five years for “Bird” free agents and four years for others.
¶ Annual contract increases will be 5.5 percent for “Bird” players and 3.5 percent for others.
¶ Players will be paid a prorated share of their 2011-12 salaries, based on the number of games played once the season starts.
¶ Team and player contract options will be prohibited in new contracts, other than rookie deals. But a player can opt out of the final year of a contract if he agrees to zero salary protection (i.e., if it is nonguaranteed).
The “reset” proposal features a flex-cap system that contains an absolute salary ceiling — to be set $5 million above the average team salary. In addition, the N.B.A. would roll back existing contracts “in proportion to system changes in order to ensure sufficient market for free agents.”
The other major differences in the “reset” proposal are:
¶ The midlevel exception would be set at $3 million in Year 1, with a maximum length of three years, and would grow at 3 percent annually.
¶ Maximum salaries would be reduced.
¶ Sign-and-trade rules would remain consistent with the 2005 labor deal.
¶ Contracts would be limited to four years for “Bird” free agents and three years for others, but each team could give a five-year deal to one designated player.
¶ Raises would be limited to 4.5 percent for “Bird” players and 3.5 percent for others.
¶ Changes requested by the union on restricted free agency rules and salary-cap holds would not be included.
Both proposals include an “amnesty” provision that will allow every team to waive one player and have 100 percent of his salary removed from the cap.
Mediocre Man
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Wow.
Unless they are 95% sure they can win in court, the players should probably take that deal. What kills me is that it's not really going to limit the money they make all that much. I mean they will still be the highest paid athletes as a whole in the world
Unless they are 95% sure they can win in court, the players should probably take that deal. What kills me is that it's not really going to limit the money they make all that much. I mean they will still be the highest paid athletes as a whole in the world
Sedatedfork
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I tend to agree with you MM. This proposal seems pretty fair to me. BRI split at 50/50 with not a lot of changes in structure from the past CBA from what I can tell except no trade and extend deals allowed.
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If you're a player who thinks that the 2005 deal should be the baseline, then you're going to be pissed.
If you're a player who understands that Nov 2011 is different than July 2005, then you take this and run.
Couple of interesting bits there...under-the-tax teams can spend 5M a year on MLEs, while taxpayers only get (basically) the current BAE.
The escrow is smart from the owners' perspective, but I can see how a player sees it as some kind of tax.
If you're a player who understands that Nov 2011 is different than July 2005, then you take this and run.
Couple of interesting bits there...under-the-tax teams can spend 5M a year on MLEs, while taxpayers only get (basically) the current BAE.
The escrow is smart from the owners' perspective, but I can see how a player sees it as some kind of tax.
Mediocre Man
Mr. SportsTwo
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The issue is that the players last deal, heck last two deals, were so good for them, they have a hard time giving it all up
Mediocre Man
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illmatic99
formerly yuyuza1
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Chris_Broussard
Sedatedfork
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I assume the escrow is just a way to ensure that BRI is split accurately. I guess it would kind of suck if you are a player, but it's money that you will get back if BRI is accounted for accurately. To be equal though, shouldn't the owners have to put some money in escrow too?
Blaze01
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Players are under the illusion that if the decertify that they will win, and that is not necessarily the case....
and instead of 1 year sitting out, it could be 2 years, and they would have to win EVERY single court battle to get there...and there wouldn't likely be resolution until that last battle was fought in the courts....
They are currently, and even in this latest deal will be, among the highest compensated athletes in professional sports....They are going to claim unfairness on the owners part? good luck with that, and they don't even have the majority of fan support\sympathy either....
Decertifying is a nuclear option that will basically eliminate all prior bargaining points won by the players union, there is no guarante they will get most or any of those back...the only winners are the all star level players and thier agents...the average NBA player will lose....
and instead of 1 year sitting out, it could be 2 years, and they would have to win EVERY single court battle to get there...and there wouldn't likely be resolution until that last battle was fought in the courts....
They are currently, and even in this latest deal will be, among the highest compensated athletes in professional sports....They are going to claim unfairness on the owners part? good luck with that, and they don't even have the majority of fan support\sympathy either....
Decertifying is a nuclear option that will basically eliminate all prior bargaining points won by the players union, there is no guarante they will get most or any of those back...the only winners are the all star level players and thier agents...the average NBA player will lose....
Fez Hammersticks
スーパーバッド Zero Cool
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Pierce and KG are acting like dictators.
Just more reasons to hate these two over-the-hill, soon-to-be-irrelevant basketball players.
Just more reasons to hate these two over-the-hill, soon-to-be-irrelevant basketball players.
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WojYahooNBA Adrian Wojnarowski
No meeting finalized, but sides were working toward session in NY before time runs out Wednesday on NBA's ultimatum for union to take deal.
No meeting finalized, but sides were working toward session in NY before time runs out Wednesday on NBA's ultimatum for union to take deal.
Sedatedfork
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Nikolokolus
There's always next year
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I find it laughable that two guys with almost zero stake in the current CBA fight (KG and Pierce have already earned 95%+ of all the money they're ever going to earn) are the most vocal and combative of the players. The lose almost nothing at all if the season gets torpedoed, but get to come off as tough guys who wouldn't budge.
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Excellent point. Notice the relative silence from the Durants, Griffins, Aldridges, and Loves of the NBA.
MickZagger
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Love's back at UCLA getting his edumacation.
I'm betting Jared Sullinger's glad he didn't put his name in the draft, while I'm sure guys like Kemba would be stoked about playing in a game that matter this week.
I'm betting Jared Sullinger's glad he didn't put his name in the draft, while I'm sure guys like Kemba would be stoked about playing in a game that matter this week.
THE HCP
NorthEastPortland'sFinest
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Stein......
While the NBA Players Association's executive committee is staunchly against accepting the league's recent "ultimatum" offer, it is not a certainty that the player reps who will meet with them Tuesday will feel the same way, a source close to the situation told ESPN The Magazine's Chris Broussard on Monday.
The source said some of the reps may favor decertification while others may want to accept the deal.
"I don't think there's going to be a consensus," the source said. "And that would be a problem."
With a Wednesday deadline looming to accept the league's latest labor proposal, player representatives from all 30 teams have been summoned by the union to New York for the mandatory meeting to update them on negotiations, sources have told ESPN.com.
Union sources have said the executive board remains unwilling to present that offer to the union's estimated 450 members for a vote and plans to make that stance clear to team player reps at the meeting.
Sources told ESPN.com that union leaders have not budged from the view that the NBA's offer is "unacceptable," just as NBPA president Derek Fisher described it in the wee hours of Sunday morning once Saturday's marathon bargaining session finally ended.
On Monday, meanwhile, sources say that the players and agents backing the decertification of the union have scheduled another conference call to follow the two conference calls -- each with at least 50 players dialed in -- that took place last week.
The Players Association's executive board was also set to conduct a conference call Monday to discuss its options before Tuesday's meeting, Spurs forward Matt Bonner, a committee member, told the San Antonio Express-News.
No new negotiations are scheduled after the parties spent nearly nine hours negotiating under the auspices of federal mediator George Cohen. NBA commissioner David Stern emerged from those talks saying that the union had until the end of business Wednesday to take a deal that the league says will pay players up to 51 percent of annual basketball related income or prepare to brace itself to receive an offer that tops out at 47 percent of BRI and features the more restrictive flex cap that the players emphatically shot down in June.
"We hope that this juxtaposition will cause the union to assess its position and accept the deal," Stern said at a news conference early Sunday morning.
There is no evidence in circulation yet to suggest that more than a handful of rank-and-file players are lobbying the union to put Saturday's offer from the owners to a vote.
Stern has already canceled the entire month of November -- which means that an entire new schedule will have to be written up when the lockout is lifted -- and has said that there is no longer sufficient time left on the calendar to stage an entire 82-game regular season.
Information from ESPN.com senior writer Marc Stein and The Associated Press was used in this report.
While the NBA Players Association's executive committee is staunchly against accepting the league's recent "ultimatum" offer, it is not a certainty that the player reps who will meet with them Tuesday will feel the same way, a source close to the situation told ESPN The Magazine's Chris Broussard on Monday.
The source said some of the reps may favor decertification while others may want to accept the deal.
"I don't think there's going to be a consensus," the source said. "And that would be a problem."
With a Wednesday deadline looming to accept the league's latest labor proposal, player representatives from all 30 teams have been summoned by the union to New York for the mandatory meeting to update them on negotiations, sources have told ESPN.com.
Union sources have said the executive board remains unwilling to present that offer to the union's estimated 450 members for a vote and plans to make that stance clear to team player reps at the meeting.
Sources told ESPN.com that union leaders have not budged from the view that the NBA's offer is "unacceptable," just as NBPA president Derek Fisher described it in the wee hours of Sunday morning once Saturday's marathon bargaining session finally ended.
On Monday, meanwhile, sources say that the players and agents backing the decertification of the union have scheduled another conference call to follow the two conference calls -- each with at least 50 players dialed in -- that took place last week.
The Players Association's executive board was also set to conduct a conference call Monday to discuss its options before Tuesday's meeting, Spurs forward Matt Bonner, a committee member, told the San Antonio Express-News.
No new negotiations are scheduled after the parties spent nearly nine hours negotiating under the auspices of federal mediator George Cohen. NBA commissioner David Stern emerged from those talks saying that the union had until the end of business Wednesday to take a deal that the league says will pay players up to 51 percent of annual basketball related income or prepare to brace itself to receive an offer that tops out at 47 percent of BRI and features the more restrictive flex cap that the players emphatically shot down in June.
"We hope that this juxtaposition will cause the union to assess its position and accept the deal," Stern said at a news conference early Sunday morning.
There is no evidence in circulation yet to suggest that more than a handful of rank-and-file players are lobbying the union to put Saturday's offer from the owners to a vote.
Stern has already canceled the entire month of November -- which means that an entire new schedule will have to be written up when the lockout is lifted -- and has said that there is no longer sufficient time left on the calendar to stage an entire 82-game regular season.
Information from ESPN.com senior writer Marc Stein and The Associated Press was used in this report.
illmatic99
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lol Blakey! Maybe my hate for him was unfounded.
illmatic99
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Kevin Martin knows whats up. http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/20...vin.martin.nba.labor/index.html#ixzz1d466Px3p