The Official S2 NBA Lockout Thread!

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Three reasons for the new mood
October, 27, 2011
By Henry Abbott



Derek Fisher declared "it gets tougher towards the end."

Adam Silver said "we remain apart on both" systems and economic issues. "So from that standpoint," he added, "we're disappointed."

But who will remember one more dose of gloom when, for the first time in a long time Thursday night, it came with some sunshine.

David Stern and Billy Hunter started cracking smiles.

Stern invaded Hunter's press conference and literally yukked it up from the back row.

Hunter spied him there and called him out with a grin. Their back-and-forth included traded calls of "Tomorrow!"

It's the first time either side has been this jolly, and the first time either side has declared a day as the day. Friday is the day, and no one's afraid to say it.
"There are no guarantees that we'll get it done," says Stern, "but we're going to give it one heck of a shot tomorrow. I think that Billy and the union's negotiators feel the same way." He later added, in a notable softening of earlier public tones: "We're prepared to negotiate over everything. We're looking forward to it."

We're looking forward to it? That does not sound one bit like war. What is the source of all this?

One part of the story is that federal mediator George Cohen was effective. While he was not able to inspire final consensus last week, he did force meaningful progress on several of the trickier issues.

Also, having blown through chances to prevent the lockout, the cancellation of the preseason, and missing the first weeks of the regular season, both sides appear to be genuinely motivated to meet the next deadline, coming any day now, which is the latest possible day to make a deal while preserving the chance of an 82-game season.

A third contributing factor, according to multiple sources, has been the absence this week of one of the union's most feared negotiators, lawyer Jeffrey Kessler.

Owners make no bones of the fact that Kessler, the first name in American sports law, is a bear in the bargaining room.

Some point out that the NFL players only got a deal after Kessler left the room. (Kessler might point out that the NFL players didn't get the best deal.)

Much was made of Portland owner Paul Allen's appearance in last week's mediated session. The suggestion was that he was there to send a message that owners were holding a hard line.

NBA sources, however, say it was nothing of the sort. In fact, they say, he was there at the invitation of the NBA's negotiators to watch Kessler. Allen was one of several owners who thought Stern and Silver had made players an overly generous offer of 50 percent of basketball-related income. The league's lead negotiators essentially replied: go see for yourself. You think you can get Kessler to go for 47 percent? Good luck to you.

In the ongoing dance between Hunter and NBA agents -- many of whom feel Hunter is soft, risk-averse, or ineffective -- Kessler has been seen as something of a shield for Hunter. If a tough lawyer like that will go for Hunter's deal, who are the agents to complain?

But that shield has been out of action and not, sources insist, because he is in the doghouse.


Kessler is a partner at Dewey & LeBoeuf where he handles many kinds of complex litigation beyond sports, and chairs the global litigation department. That work has taken him to Russia for a few days, a period that happens to coincide with Stern and Hunter remembering how to laugh.

The joke making the rounds is that politically connected Nets owner Mikhail Prokhorov ought to have Kessler detained there.

What's not a joke, however, is that Kessler has been absent just two days, and for better or for worse, as far as players are concerned, already there's anticipation of the announcement NBA fans have been craving for four months.
 
One idea in circulation, calls for teams playing up to 17 or 18 games a month to get in 82 by April's end
 
One idea in circulation, calls for teams playing up to 17 or 18 games a month to get in 82 by April's end

Will see how this plays out for season ticket holders. It could be rough going to on average two games a week, or having to sell tickets. My first lockout though as an STH.
 
Lockout update: BRI split to be discussed Friday
4 Comments
By Chris Sheridan
October 27, 2011 at 10:53 PM


NEW YORK — Billy Hunter told the world the sides in the NBA lockout are “within striking distance of a deal,” and he told SheridanHoops.com even more: “The BRI split is the very first thing we are going to try to tackle in the morning.”
Owners and players met for 7 1/2 more hours Thursday after putting in a nearly 15 1/2 hour session that began Wednesday and ended after 3 a.m. Thursday. Exhausted after the 23 hours of meetings, the sides called it a night relatively early and decided to resume negotiations at 10:30 a.m. EDT.
Once again, the sides stayed away from the most thorny issue: The split of revenues known as basketball-related income. The owners are offering a 50/50 deal, the players are asking for 52.5 percent, and hardliners on both sides believe the other side should be giving the most when they try to meet somewhere in the middle.
The subject has not been discussed since last Thursday, when the owners’ 50/50 offer was presented as a “take it or leave it” ultimatum and led to the acrimonious breakup of the talks.
They have taken to calling it “the elephant in the room,” and the elephant will be front and center first thing in the morning, Hunter said as he left the talks.
The sides have made progress on many salary cap system issues, but how punitive the new luxury tax will be remains a particularly sore sticking point. The 23 hours have been spent methodically plodding through several other system issues, and a middle ground still needs to be found on several of the particulars (i.e. maximum annual raises, which the union wants to keep at 10.5 percent for unrestricted free agents and 8 percent for others. The owners have been asking that those percentages be cut to 4.5 and 3, respectively, and it is unclear if they have moved off that position).
“We’ve spent a lot of time on the system the in the last two days, and I expect that tomorrow we’ll be in a position to see whether we made adequate progress on that to be able to turn to the split,” commissioner David Stern said. “I think that we are not close enough right now (on system issues), but I expect with a good night’s sleep we’ll both come in with resolve to get closer.”
Stern was asked straight up whether it would be a failure of the sides didn’t get a deal done in the next couple days.
“Yes.”
To which deputy commissioner Adam Silver decided to pose a question himself: “Could you elaborate?
“No,” Stern said. “No elaboration, but the fair answer and the direct and honest answer is yes.”
No to recap, there is no deal yet on several system issues, there has been no discussion of the BRI split — but there also have been no doomsday game cancellation press releases from the NBA’s media office.
Friday, obviously, is crucial.
“For deal-making purposes, everything’s on the table and there’s no question that trades are often made when you have the final pieces of a deal that you need to put together,” Silver said. ”But we remain apart on both, so from that standpoint we’re disappointed.”
Said Stern: “There’s no guarantees we’ll get it done, but we’re going to give it one heck of a shot tomorrow. And I think Billy and the union’s negotiators feel the same way. I know that ours do. We’re prepared to negotiate over everything.
“We’re looking forward to it,” Stern said.
So is the entire basketball world.
 
Source also says NBA has agreed teams that pay tax should still get a share of tax proceeds. Old system DQ'd teams who went even $1 over.
 
Sam Amici


NBA labor meetings begin at 10:30 this morning. Don't expect lockout to officially end today, but we are moving toward a season.
 
The NY Times says the #NBA is looking to push the regular season into the 2nd half of April in order to try to play full 82-game schedule.
 
Some notes of caution on NBA labor talks: "very, very difficult system issues" still to be settled, source says, including luxury tax plan
 
Mannix

A good result for today will be a handshake deal on the system issues. Much as we want to talk split, getting one done would be huge.
 
Besides Chris Paul, Theo Ratliff has joined the union side today. Economist Kevin Murphy has returned. Cuban stuck around for the owners.
 
I really want this Lockout to end so that HCP can work. Remove HCP and other non-players from the mix, and I would really not care so much. Fucking weird considering I have never even met HCP.

HCP for GM
 
As a thank you for being an STH, the Blazers just comped me 7 suite level tickets for Disney on Ice. The Players Union has comped me nothing up to this point. I hope the players get slaughtered in this next CBA! (Retract the last statement if I can get some autographed gear)
 
Thanks GOD! Sorry that my twinkie isn't working guys!
 
I really want this Lockout to end so that HCP can work. Remove HCP and other non-players from the mix, and I would really not care so much. Fucking weird considering I have never even met HCP.

HCP for GM


I agree...except for the GM part. I have never met him either, although I have met his wife on several occasions. For people like him and other innocent workers in all this, these fucking rich bastards need to figure this shit out. Hotels, restaurants, arena workers, all kinds of people that this is affecting
 
hollinger


For a league allegedly concerned with competitive balance, the multi-year amnesty sure seems like a gift to the big market teams.
 
johnhollinger: Have folks replying that multi-year amnesty favors Blazers. Guess PDX fans want to wait-n-see with Roy. To me it's a no-brainer decision.
 
hollinger


For a league allegedly concerned with competitive balance, the multi-year amnesty sure seems like a gift to the big market teams.

I think it is more of a gift if it is allowed to be used on contracts that are not signed yet. NY, Chicago, and Miami already got rid of their albatross contracts. The Clippers do not spend money anyway. The Lakers may use it. Is there a big market team that it gives a significant advantage to?
 
Multi-year amnesty would be good because we can see if Brandon truly has nothing left.

Amnesty period may also mean a return of Travis Outlaw. At the right price, we could still use him.
 
Stein

One trusted exec chimes in convinced new Amnesty Clause HAS to include provision forbidding teams on using it on players acquired by trade
 
Stein

One trusted exec chimes in convinced new Amnesty Clause HAS to include provision forbidding teams on using it on players acquired by trade

I would not have a problem with teams using it on traded players. Teams that did not sign stupid contracts should not be penalized by the stupid ones getting a free pass. I just would not want another loophole for teams to get around the salary cap by signing a player to a multiyear contract knowing they are going to amnesty him later.
 
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Whatever son..... I'll take a 10pt a game scorer who doesn't want to start and knows his roll. And occasionally was pretty clutch for us.

Camby/LA
LA/T Law
GW/Batum
Wesley/Batum
Felton/Smith

Looks pretty solid to me. That does not include Roy, Oden, or any other project either.
 

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