The Official S2 NBA Lockout Thread!

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NBPA, NBA will meet in a U.S. district courtroom Wednesday to hear oral arguments on complaint NBA filed Aug. 2; NBPA wants case dismissed.
 
Interesting timing on this kind of internal memo getting leaked to the public. I'm not sure whose agenda it serves, but you almost have to believe that this got into the wild on purpose.
 
Bucher


Players union will meet Thursday in NY to map out next move in negotiations, source says.
 
"As you know, NBA players have received 57% of BRI for many years"

Billy and the players need to get over this. The owners made it clear from the start that they don't give a rat's ass what the players got the last time. Times have changed. The economy has changed. Playing in Greece is no longer an option either. The future does not look promising. You are starting from scratch.

So stop bringing this up every time you make a speech. It's irrelevant what you made before, what you need to focus on is what you are going to get over the next 7-10 years. And that still will be pretty good.

I make less than I did 5 years ago, and I am not too happy about it either. So stop insulting all of us and get the fucking deal done.
 
So the NBA started a verified twitter account to clear up any misinformation they see on here - @NBA_Labor
 
David Aldridge


Plz remember the next 2/3 wks: everyone has an agenda. Players, owners, agents. And they're all leaking 2 make the other side(s) look bad
 
Now Derek Fisher is writing letters!!

Derek Fisher Statement

November 1, 2011 (Los Angeles, CA) – “The statements made in recent articles on the Fox Sports website are inexcusable. Among the many baseless accusations, to allege that I am working with the league for my personal gain is unequivocally false. The implication that I am doing anything but working in the best interests of the players is disgusting, defamatory and a flat out lie. I have issued a letter through my attorneys demanding a retraction for the libelous and defamatory stories the site and reporter have continued to publish.

Regardless of the media reports, the Players Association, our staff, Executive Director and Executive Committee are unified and working side by side to serve our players.

There should be no more distractions. We must continue to negotiate a fair deal for our players.”
 
Draco said:
The reason the evil owners don't include fines as income is because they are all donated to charity.
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Even if the League Office donates fines it receives to charity, it first classifies them on financials and tax returns as income, as per standards required by IRS and accounting standards.

When the revenue is later donated, it is classified as an expense. So it's both income and expense.

Fines meet the intuitive definition of basketball-related income, but not BRI as defined in the CBA negotiated by owners and union, a definition with exceptions totalling hundreds of millions of dollars per year, as I posted.

In conclusion, 1) I noted that there are many exclusions from BRI in the 57-43 calculation, such as fines, 2) you guys said, so what, fines are donated to charity, and 3) I just showed you why that is irrelevant to my observation that they are an exclusion from the 57-43 split.
 
Treaty_of_Batum said:
After Billy Hunter made the grand stand of marching out of Friday’s bargaining session, refusing to negotiate below 52 percent of the NBA’s revenue split, there emerged a strong movement within the Players Association that’s vows the union will never let him act so unilaterally again.

From superstars to midlevel players to rookies, there’s an unmistakable push to complete the final elements of the system and take this labor deal to the union’s 400-plus membership. Beyond that, there’s an even larger movement to push Hunter, the Players Association’s executive director, out the door once these labor talks are done. All hell’s broken loose within the union, and no one is exactly sure how they’re going to get a deal to the finish line.


http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_y...w-wojnarowski_nba_lockout_billy_hunter_110111
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The next paragraph in the Woj editorial I mean article:

“Billy can’t just say it’s 52 or nothing, and walk out again,” one league source involved with the talks told Yahoo! Sports. “That will not happen again. It’s time that the players get to make a decision on this, and there won’t be another check lost before they do.”
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Woj is a mouthpiece for sources from the owners' side.
 
jlprk said:
Even if the League Office donates fines it receives to charity, it first classifies them on financials and tax returns as income, as per standards required by IRS and accounting standards.

When the revenue is later donated, it is classified as an expense. So it's both income and expense.

Fines meet the intuitive definition of basketball-related income, but not BRI as defined in the CBA negotiated by owners and union, a definition with exceptions totalling hundreds of millions of dollars per year, as I posted.

In conclusion, 1) I noted that there are many exclusions from BRI in the 57-43 calculation, such as fines, 2) you guys said, so what, fines are donated to charity, and 3) I just showed you why that is irrelevant to my observation that they are an exclusion from the 57-43 split.
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There are revenues the league completely excludes from the players, your earlier examples of advertising, luxury suites, etc show that the owners would get more then half of revenues in a "50/50" split.

Fines are a very poor example of this, they are never treated as either income nor an expense. They are an exclusion from income. If they weren't excluded from income then if players and owners were each fined $1000 they would essentially all received $1000 back on their final paychecks.
 
Why does this feel so much like the last lock out. I'm fully expecting to hear that league play wil start in January witha shorten season of 55 games (or whatever it was).

Fans will come back, players will be arrogant, owners will bitch about making money while raising ticket prices and TV will pay big bucks to telivise the games.

The game saves itself because the NBA is doing everything possible to fuck it up.
 
The Economy in 1999 wasn't in the toilet the way it is now ... I get the feeling advertisers, ticket paying fans and viewers are going to be a long time coming back after this one.
 
Nikolokolus said:
The Economy in 1999 wasn't in the toilet the way it is now ... I get the feeling advertisers, ticket paying fans and viewers are going to be a long time coming back after this one.
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Factor in not only the economy, but all of the other entertainment options available now.

Then again, what do I know. I still cannot understand the Kardashian phenomena.
 
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The Kardashians are Bruce Jenner's step kids.
 
Charcoal Filtered said:
I know who they are, but just cannot explain their success. Sort of like the pet rock.
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well, i'm sure if pet rocks made a video where some guy was fucking their brains out, they'd be famous too. it worked for Paris Hilton.


Speaking of that, whatever happened to that cum dumpster? Has she dropped off the planet?
 
Jordan withdrew from some golf tournament to go back to labor talks.

Deal coming soon?
 
Charcoal Filtered said:
Factor in not only the economy, but all of the other entertainment options available now.
.
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It's not just the economy, or the other entertainment options, but I believe we are at the birth of a whole new way to enjoy activities because of the interactive and pervasive nature of technology. 5 years from now, many people who love basketball, and have plenty of money to go to the games, will opt to stay home and join a more shared network and interactive structure of viewership while sitting while watching their 72 inch screen.

This does not mean less money for the NBA, it just means different revenue streams (if managed well, revenue could increase, if managed poorly, revenue could plummet). I'm not sure exactly how it will work, but imagine a Facebook TV where all of your personal friends that are blazer fans join to watch together from their own houses. The game is shown over 80% of the screen while side conversations or xbox games are in the other areas, with friend text scrolling across the bottom of the screen. Each viewer could toggle between group voice, announcer voice, ipod, one-on-one conversations, and so on. Each individual could set up their screen to include multiple games in differing sizes, friend video, foe video, and all sorts of other personalized treats. The days of 20,000+ fans at a stadium are coming to an end.
 
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NBPA board will meet Thur in NY. Some hope that talks w/NBA could resume Fri or Sat, tho nothing set yet.
 
@julius

There are plenty of women that have made sex tapes that "mysteriously" get stolen and released to the public. Few make the money the Kardashians do.

[withholding the Mrs. HCP joke because someone probably had a wittier response]

@GOD

Great points. I did that same exercise when the UFC was at the Rose Garden. For a pair of ringside seats at face value, I could have gotten an HDTV to watch it on PPV, keg of beer, a couple of those huge Subway sandwiches, and still had money left over. Ended up waiting till someone could not get rid of a ticket on the secondary market and went for $150. My thinking is that it is still hard to replace the live experience, but the demand is lower knowing that other spectacular options are available.
 
GOD said:
It's not just the economy, or the other entertainment options, but I believe we are at the birth of a whole new way to enjoy activities because of the interactive and pervasive nature of technology. 5 years from now, many people who love basketball, and have plenty of money to go to the games, will opt to stay home and join a more shared network and interactive structure of viewership while sitting while watching their 72 inch screen.

This does not mean less money for the NBA, it just means different revenue streams (if managed well, revenue could increase, if managed poorly, revenue could plummet). I'm not sure exactly how it will work, but imagine a Facebook TV where all of your personal friends that are blazer fans join to watch together from their own houses. The game is shown over 80% of the screen while side conversations or xbox games are in the other areas, with friend text scrolling across the bottom of the screen. Each viewer could toggle between group voice, announcer voice, ipod, one-on-one conversations, and so on. Each individual could set up their screen to include multiple games in differing sizes, friend video, foe video, and all sorts of other personalized treats. The days of 20,000+ fans at a stadium are coming to an end.
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You are describing a geek world that is very disturbing to me. There has to be 20,000 people in every city that desire to leave their house and be with real live girls and watch sports. How depressing.
 
High-Tension N.B.A. Talks Resume, but They’re Between Union Officials
By HOWARD BECK
Published: November 2, 2011


Another tense meeting to address the N.B.A. lockout will take place Thursday in Manhattan — only this time without owners or league officials and without a prospect for a deal. If a consensus emerges, it will be solely between the leaders of the players association.

The union’s executive board is holding its first in-person meeting since labor talks collapsed last Friday, and its first since reports of a rift in leadership began circulating.

If there are political or philosophical gaps between Derek Fisher, the union’s elected president, and Billy Hunter, its longtime executive director, they will try to close them, in full view of the union’s staff members and the eight other players on the board.

From there, union leaders hope to turn their focus back to their collective bargaining strategy, and toward re-engaging the N.B.A. at the bargaining table. There is hope that talks could resume Friday or Saturday.

But first, the union must address an internecine battle that for five days has overshadowed the lockout itself and threatened to derail the bargaining process. Fisher and Hunter are said to be at odds, and one published report said Fisher was trying to cut a secret deal with the N.B.A.

Fisher and Hunter have spent the week issuing statements and letters affirming their unity, while trying to calm a 430-person constituency that is antsy over the imminent loss of paychecks.

The damage-control efforts have supplanted any attempt to break the 125-day stalemate with the league, which has already canceled a month of games. That is why players, agents and even N.B.A. officials are eager to see what message emerges from the union Thursday.

“I think there will be a lot of clarity coming out of the meeting on Thursday,” said one person aligned with the players, who has communicated with both league and union officials this week. The first agenda item, the person said, is “to hash out the Derek Fisher situation.”

Two people with ties to the union said the issue was mostly resolved in a Tuesday conference call involving Fisher, Hunter and the board. But one person said it was important for everyone to speak face to face before the matter is put behind them.

The controversy began Saturday, when FoxSports.com, citing an anonymous source, reported that Fisher was trying to broker a deal with Commissioner David Stern without the union’s knowledge. According to the report, Fisher “promised” the union would agree to the N.B.A.’s proposed 50-50 split of revenues. Hunter has vowed not to accept less than 52.5 percent, a stance that contributed to the breakdown in talks last week.

Fisher reaffirmed his loyalty to the union in a letter to players. He also issued a statement decrying the FoxSports.com article — which accused him of making deals for personal gain — as “disgusting, defamatory and a flat-out lie.” Hunter restated his support for Fisher in a letter to players.

Although a fractured union might seem advantageous to the N.B.A., league officials privately are alarmed; there is little hope for a labor deal if union leaders have conflicting agendas.

Until now, the relationship between Hunter and Fisher has generally been solid, according to people who have worked with them. But there are some tensions.

According to a person with ties to both men, Fisher believes that a 50-50 deal should at least be considered, if it would salvage more of the season. Hunter is more adamant about holding firm, believing the long-term gain justifies the short-term losses.

In general, Fisher has assumed a far more hands-on role than the typical player-president — issuing memos, scheduling meetings and becoming the union’s primary face and voice during the lockout. Hunter, who does not relish the role of spokesman, has welcomed and even encouraged Fisher to take the lead at news conferences.

But Hunter has sometimes bristled at Fisher’s assertiveness in setting the agenda — sometimes without Hunter’s input — according to people who have worked with them.

“It just created a little sore spot,” one person said.

The picture is also muddled at the bargaining table, where Jeffrey Kessler, the union’s outside counsel, serves as the lead negotiator. According to people involved in the talks, Kessler does 80 percent of the speaking, while Hunter, who has a reputation for not being detail-oriented, takes a secondary role.

One person involved on the N.B.A.’s side said the negotiations had been difficult, in part, because it was unclear who was in charge of the union.

The intensity, stress and protracted nature of the labor talks have inflamed nerves and heightened everyone’s concern about the outcome. The union has already made huge concessions, and no one wants to be blamed for a bad deal.

The stakes are higher for Hunter, who earns $2.5 million a year as executive director, than for Fisher, whose role is temporary. This is also probably Hunter’s last labor deal; he turns 69 on Saturday.

While union leaders try to repair the cracks, antsy players are sending out warning flares on Twitter.

“Take the 51% man and let’s play,” Glen Davis, the Boston Celtics forward, wrote Wednesday.

Cleveland’s Samardo Samuels wrote last Friday that a 50-50 deal would be fine. “It’s church money away,” Samuels wrote.

Impatience is the most prominent theme, however. As Terrence Williams, a Houston Rockets guard, wrote on Wednesday, “Hey @TheNBPA Let’s play BALL enough with the stare off.”
 
Pinwheel1 said:
You are describing a geek world that is very disturbing to me. There has to be 20,000 people in every city that desire to leave their house and be with real live girls and watch sports. How depressing.
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I don't see it a total replacement, but someone like me, I might go to half the games i would have gone to otherwise. Also, I would be more likely to not go to games during the regular season, and just enjoy the live experience during the playoffs. Some people would go 100% as much as they do now, while others would never go to a live game again. Most people however, will, over time, go to live games less often in the future.

One thing that I think is interesting, I think that Football will not have the live fan drop-off that basketball will. Football has a longer standing tradition of being a live experience with the tailgating, the food, the drink and most importantly, the limited schedule, not having 82 games like in the NBA. I can't remember where I was reading or listening to a conversation about this very topic, but whoever it was, suggested that the next round of stadiums to be built will be much smaller, perhaps around 13,000 seats. We will see, but I expect the downturn to start in 5 to 10 years and be in full swing shortly after that.
 
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@God

I think baseball is suffering in the same way. Seems like on TV they are always playing to an empty stadium. Not just the Mariners either.
 
Pinwheel1 said:
You are describing a geek world that is very disturbing to me. There has to be 20,000 people in every city that desire to leave their house and be with real live girls and watch sports. How depressing.
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I read recently that Netflix accounts for 32% of all internet bandwidth.
 
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