The Official S2 NBA Lockout Thread! (1 Viewer)

[Fez Hammersticks]

nbadraftblog Ed Isaacson
Is there anyone who thinks they would actually get the votes for decertification. I dont think they come close

 

[Fez Hammersticks]

TMac/Melo/Deron/LeBron etc. could talk down on the small/mid markets but these markets have these spoiled brats by the balls right now.

 

[PapaG]

Somebody needs to get the players on some sort of unified message, because they are coming across as the villains at this point, and they are hurting their own cause. I've never seen anything like it in a labor dispute. The actions of MacGrady and others is the best evidence that the players have had their way for too long.

I'd also love to see the current contracts invalidated if the union decertifies, as MM posted earlier.

 

[THE HCP]

Damn! Everybody would become unrestricted free agents?

 

[julius]

Damn! Everybody would become unrestricted free agents?

If that becomes the case, then I would end my interest in the NBA, because it would create super teams even worse then it is now.

 

[Further]

If that becomes the case, then I would end my interest in the NBA, because it would create super teams even worse then it is now.

Agreed. I would most likely never go to a game again. There are too many other things to enjoy in life to spend time and money and passion rooting for a team that has zero chance of ever being competitive.

 

[Pinwheel1]

If that becomes the case, then I would end my interest in the NBA, because it would create super teams even worse then it is now.

I don't understand why that would be the case. If the players decertify, the union ends. But the league still exists. The owners can make up the rules. The players may be all free agents but if they want to play in the NBA and the owners agreed to have a 50 million hard cap, I am not sure there would be any super teams. All the big contracts would be gone and they would be starting over.

I am guessing here. I have no idea how it would work. But it sounds like to me that the stars could get screwed.

 

[Further]

I don't understand why that would be the case. If the players decertify, the union ends. But the league still exists. The owners can make up the rules. The players may be all free agents but if they want to play in the NBA and the owners agreed to have a 50 million hard cap, I am not sure there would be any super teams. All the big contracts would be gone and they would be starting over.

I am guessing here. I have no idea how it would works. But it sounds like to me that the stars could get screwed.

Bec ause that would be illegal. Price fixing. If there is not a union, then the teams can not have caps, it's a free market.


However, I think this is just the players trying to drive a wedge between the small market teams and big market teams and get the owners to move on the BRI. Just posturing

 

[Nikolokolus]

Sportsguy33 (Bill Simmons)
Twitter:

You know who hopes the NBAPA decertifies in November? Everyone running Netflix. They'd no longer be the dumbest people of 2011.

God damn this is why I love reading his stuff.

 

[THE HCP]

As many as 50 NBA players were part of conference call with anti-trust attorney Thursday discussing union decertification, sources tell Y!

 

[THE HCP]

There were two conference calls held this week -- Tuesday and Thursday -- without knowledge of NBPA officials, sources tell Y!

 

[THE HCP]

Calls included several All-Stars. One source on calls told Y!: "We're beyond frustrated with concessions that have already been made."

 

[THE HCP]

Woj


Here was theme: If NBPA drops below 52% on BRI, and/or remaining system issues go league's way, then this will become movement to decertify.

 

[THE HCP]

Y! Sources: Frustrated with progress of labor talks, players hold secret conference calls on union decertification.

 

[THE HCP]

Two sources confirm @WojYahooNBA report that approx 50 players had conference call w/ antitrust attorney 2 discuss decertification today.

 

[THE HCP]

Paul Pierce Was Most Vocal 'Star' On Decertification Call

 

[jlprk]

What is stopping the players from finding a new set of owners for a new league? This is how the ABA was born. It competed with the NBA and drove salaries way up. It helped players and hurt NBA owners.

The days of 20,000+ fans at a stadium are coming to an end.

Lower ticket prices and more beer would easily prevent that from happening.

 

[Blazinaway]

What is stopping the players from finding a new set of owners for a new league? This is how the ABA was born. It competed with the NBA and drove salaries way up. It helped players and hurt NBA owners.



Lower ticket prices and more beer would easily prevent that from happening.

or if they decetify and all contracts are void what's stopping the owners from starting a new league, they own the organizations and arenas or arena leases and TV deals, I think the owners would have a much better chance then the players

 

[Blazinaway]

Calls included several All-Stars. One source on calls told Y!: "We're beyond frustrated with concessions that have already been made."

ah, poor babies! lol

 

[Blazinaway]

I have been hoping this happens, and will laugh my ass off if it does.

yep, part of me would love to see this happen

 

[julius]

Paul Pierce Was Most Vocal 'Star' On Decertification Call

Paul pierce has done the unthinkable. He's made me glad the Celtics lost the last title to the lakers.

 

[BrianFromWA]

Coon had an ESPN article today about decertification. While he seems firmly on the players' side in this and other musings, I don't know if some things I'm not understanding are b/c I'm messed up or he's not telling the whole story.

For instance:

They can end the lockout, open the doors to the players and start doing business without a salary cap or any of the other mechanisms that existed in the CBA. They would be abandoning the very protections for which they are locking out the players, and which they have enjoyed for decades.

But aren't they also going to get all of the demands of their "nuclear option?" I mean, they lose protections. But the NBA then becomes a league of non-guaranteed contracts, right? I mean, if my boss can fire me at will, who's to say that PA couldn't just, for instance, fire Roy and not pay a dime of his contract further? There's a lot of protection in that, it seems, and a lot of risk for players. What am I missing?

Additionally, the draft goes away as well, right? We go back to the old "whoever's got the cash gets the players" rule.

No mandate of 12 players per team. If you want to sign 7 stars and let them run all game (and bring Don Nelson to coach) you can.

No trades without players' consent, I would imagine.

Anything else?

It also puts pressure on Hunter, Fisher and the rest of the union negotiating committee. Amid rumors that Fisher was trying to find a way to sell the players on a 50-50 split of revenues, this threat sends a strong message: You need to hold the line, because we have other options.

The players have already lost more money over the course of a 6-year CBA than if they'd agreed to 50-50 and started the season on time. What "other options" do the players have to regain that? Stern's already said that the league's offer isn't going up.

 

[Mediocre Man]

Coon had an ESPN article today about decertification. While he seems firmly on the players' side in this and other musings, I don't know if some things I'm not understanding are b/c I'm messed up or he's not telling the whole story.

For instance:


But aren't they also going to get all of the demands of their "nuclear option?" I mean, they lose protections. But the NBA then becomes a league of non-guaranteed contracts, right? I mean, if my boss can fire me at will, who's to say that PA couldn't just, for instance, fire Roy and not pay a dime of his contract further? There's a lot of protection in that, it seems, and a lot of risk for players. What am I missing?

Additionally, the draft goes away as well, right? We go back to the old "whoever's got the cash gets the players" rule.

No mandate of 12 players per team. If you want to sign 7 stars and let them run all game (and bring Don Nelson to coach) you can.

No trades without players' consent, I would imagine.

Anything else?



The players have already lost more money over the course of a 6-year CBA than if they'd agreed to 50-50 and started the season on time. What "other options" do the players have to regain that? Stern's already said that the league's offer isn't going up.

Couldn't the NBA then in turn issue bans on any player they want? That would prevent owners like Cuban and PA from getting any of them. In reality, if there were no union, Stern and the NBA could say ok, Lebron James is not allowed to play in our league. The NBA could then put in a salary structure that was perminent so when the players started up another league....that will fail.....they would then come back into the NBA wiyh extremely reduced salaries

 

[Draco]

But aren't they also going to get all of the demands of their "nuclear option?" I mean, they lose protections. But the NBA then becomes a league of non-guaranteed contracts, right? I mean, if my boss can fire me at will, who's to say that PA couldn't just, for instance, fire Roy and not pay a dime of his contract further? There's a lot of protection in that, it seems, and a lot of risk for players. What am I missing?

A player could still have guaranteed contracts if the owner and player agreed to it when signing the deal. Coaches and management are often given guaranteed contracts and obviously they arn't part of the union or current CBA.

However, the players contracts wouldn't automatically become fully guaranteed during a season as often they currently do.

 

[BBert]

I can see why the mega-zillionaire players might want to decertify -- then it's every man for himself. Can someone explain how decertification helps the average Joe player?

 

[BrianFromWA]

A player could still have guaranteed contracts if the owner and player agreed to it when signing the deal. Coaches and management are often given guaranteed contracts and obviously they arn't part of the union or current CBA.

However, the players contracts wouldn't automatically become fully guaranteed during a season as often they currently do.

The issue is that the owner doesn't HAVE to guarantee a contract. In a world where owners can't set min/max salaries or caps, it's also a world where James Dolan can fire Eddy Curry and have unemployment pay him to get fat.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

I always hated Michael Jordan:

A faction of 50 N.B.A. players is threatening to dissolve the union if it compromises further on player salaries. The league is facing an equivalent threat from a trenchant group of owners, who are vowing to oppose any deal that gives players more than 50 percent of revenue.

The owners’ faction includes between 10 and 14 owners and is being led by Charlotte’s Michael Jordan, according to a person who has spoken with the owners. That group wanted the players’ share set no higher than 47 percent, and it was upset when league negotiators proposed a 50-50 split last month.

According to the person who spoke with the owners, Jordan’s faction intends to vote against the 50-50 deal, if negotiations get that far. Saturday’s owners meeting was arranged in part to address that concern.

As about a million people have pointed out, Jordan the player was the person who told owner Abe Pollin "if you can't afford it sell your team" in the last lockout.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Either this is all smoke, or there is less than zero chance of having any season.

 

[BlazerCaravan]

Burn it down, and let something new rise from the ashes. The NBA is now more entertaining as a courtroom drama than as an on-the-court drama.

 

[Draco]

The issue is that the owner doesn't HAVE to guarantee a contract. In a world where owners can't set min/max salaries or caps, it's also a world where James Dolan can fire Eddy Curry and have unemployment pay him to get fat.

Owners don't currently have to give players guaranteed deals either, they could have left the last few years of Eddy Currys contract unguaranteed and been able to cut his ass. The dumbass Knicks did the sign and trade and gave him a fully guaranteed long term deal.

The owners were fighting to never allow any fully guaranteed deals. Players want to keep the current system where it's a part of the contract bargaining process if a deal is fully, partially, or non-guaranteed. If there wasn't a CBA there would still be fully, partially, or non-guaranteed deals same as the last CBA.