The one player will we have to trade to take it to the next level

[hasoos]

Well, I thought the goal was to win an NBA title. My mistake.

It is. But it doesn't mean a tough player doesn't improve the team. Michael Jordan ruined a lot of dreams for a lot of teams. That is the reality of the situation. If there was no Jordan, there would have been a hell of a lot of championships split between Portland and Utah.

As for Grant, the LA and Portland teams that clashed that year were 2 of the finer teams in NBA history IMO. Somebody had to lose.

 

[hasoos]

Yeah, Cousins go fuck yourself is fine and good. Oden is kicking ass. Of course, we probably traded Rudy, Bayless, our first, and something else to get up to get Cousins. Probably took on crap salary. He's not happy as a bench player. he voices that displeasure. We're stuck without a backup, and hurt our bench to get there. So we kill his value, and move him in the offseason for less than we gave up to get him. And as a franchise, things start to go to shit. And fans on the board would flip out after his first good game that he should start over Aldridge or Oden. We'd hear how Nate is ruining him, etc.

Yep getting more good players on your team always ends up badly. In fact, because it always ends up badly, you should never get more talent on your team ever. I see how it is.

 

[BGrantFan]

It is. But it doesn't mean a tough player doesn't improve the team. Michael Jordan ruined a lot of dreams for a lot of teams. That is the reality of the situation. If there was no Jordan, there would have been a hell of a lot of championships split between Portland and Utah.

As for Grant, the LA and Portland teams that clashed that year were 2 of the finer teams in NBA history IMO. Somebody had to lose.

I just don't see Buck Williams as a "missing ingredient" in terms of winning an NBA title.

Because ... he wasn't.

 

[RR7]

Yep getting more good players on your team always ends up badly. In fact, because it always ends up badly, you should never get more talent on your team ever. I see how it is.

That's not at all what I said, but if that's the discussion you want to have, so be it. The issue is adding people that for one have shown to already have character issues, but then bringing them in with the thought that you might be telling him to fuck himself. Talent matters a lot. So does chemistry. And having a group of guys with individual agendas usually isn't an ideal recipe for success.

I'm all for adding talent. I'd prefer the right talent. And finding talent that will fit the roster. I'm not of the mindset that throwing 12 starting caliber players onto a team is always going to lead to success. You need hustle guys. You need role players. Cousins doesn't necessarily project as a role player. If you think he's starting C quality, and a front court of him and Aldridge is achampionship level front court, I think you should look to move Oden. Unless you know that that rookie is going to buy into being a career backup.

But hey,

I'm not a chemistry major. I'm a sports major. Cousins fits in great and you'll find that DeMarcus and the fellas will get along really well.

Maybe so.

 

[MIXUM]

if oden is our only hope to a title...

we better start rebuilding

 

[Minstrel]

Aldridge is a very good player, but not a star. Even if he doesn't improve, as an 18-19 PER player who plays good defense, he's a solid second-best player on a title contender and a fantastic third-best player. If Oden stays healthy and continues to produce like he was this season (let alone improving as should be expected), everything will fall nicely into place.

As maxiep mentioned, Aldridge is a great fit alongside Oden. Oden's role, if he remains healthy, will be in the low post. Aldridge's skillset is much better aimed at the high post. That's a very complementary set of bigs.

Certainly, if Aldridge and a piece or two (that don't include Roy, Oden or Batum) could be parlayed into Bosh, that would really cement the team as a big-time power. But Aldridge is certainly good enough, as the second- or third-best player, to win titles. (And there's even the outside chance that Batum becomes a 20 PER player and pushes Aldridge to fourth-best, which would be an embarrassment of riches.)

 

[Minstrel]

if oden is our only hope to a title...

we better start rebuilding

Not a big fan of Oden, eh?

 

[andalusian]

Not a big fan of Oden, eh?

That's actually a good sign. This is coming from the brilliant mind that thought Webster is much better than Batum. I think Oden is just about penciled in for the hall of fame, right here, right now.

 

[Natebishop3]

As much as I love Miller and Aldridge, it would have been a coup to sign David Lee and trade LMA for a point guard before signing him to that big extension.

With that said, the past is in the past, and I am very happy with Miller and I think Aldridge is extremely underrated by the fans here.

 

[RR7]

Which PG do you imagine us trading him for?

 

[mook]

I disagree with the basic premise that we have to trade anyone to get to the next level. The "next level" was there for the taking if Oden had just stayed healthy, with or without Batum. But now that Batum is blossoming into a stud at SF, if Oden can come back and we can convince Camby to re-sign....man, this is going to be a fantastic team next year.

 

[OddEnormous]

Exactly.

Duncan, Garnett, Gasol, Sheed were the PF's in 6 of the last 10 championships.

LMA is nowhere close to any of these players.

Well, maybe Sheed in that he always goes missing in the 4th quarter.

 

[OddEnormous]

he's a solid second-best player on a title contender and a fantastic third-best player.

Name a champion in the last 10 years where Lamarcus Aldridge the 2nd best player on that team.

When have you ever wanted him on the ball, with his game, down the stretch? Every player on the floor in the 4th quarter can shoot fade away/turn around J's.

 

[hasoos]

The most common things I find about championship teams, with the one exception being the Detroit Pistons team with Rip/Chauncey, and even that team fits some of these:

1. At least 2 star level players on the team.
2. They are already a good team when they get a good find late in the draft.
3. GM not afraid to take chances.
4. A coach that can handle players and their individual agendas.
5. Hungry vets looking for a ring before they go out.

and the big one as of late that seems to be important:

6. On the good receiving end of a lop sided trade.

 

[Minstrel]

Name a champion in the last 10 years where Lamarcus Aldridge the 2nd best player on that team.

The Detroit Pistons. Rasheed Wallace, IMO, was the second-best player on that team (after Billups) and I think Aldridge compares reasonably well. Wallace was a superior defender but, by that point in his career, was worse than Aldridge on offense.

You might reasonably say that I've selected the only team that works, but I think this Blazers team, as currently constituted, is closest to that Pistons team and so is a good analogue. A team without a couple of dominant players, but one star (Roy versus Billups), a very good but non-star player (Aldridge versus R. Wallace), a versatile defensive wing (Batum versus Prince), a solid non-star guard (Miller versus Hamilton) and an excellent defensive big (Camby versus B. Wallace).

It's possible Portland can become more like the Spurs or the Lakers of recent vintage if Oden can put together healthy years. In which case, Aldridge would be a third-best player, like a Bynum or Ginobili. We'll have to see.

 

[OddEnormous]

The Detroit Pistons. Rasheed Wallace, IMO, was the second-best player on that team (after Billups) and I think Aldridge compares reasonably well. Wallace was a superior defender but, by that point in his career, was worse than Aldridge on offense.

You might reasonably say that I've selected the only team that works, but I think this Blazers team, as currently constituted, is closest to that Pistons team and so is a good analogue. A team without a couple of dominant players, but one star (Roy versus Billups), a very good but non-star player (Aldridge versus R. Wallace), a versatile defensive wing (Batum versus Prince), a solid non-star guard (Miller versus Hamilton) and an excellent defensive big (Camby versus B. Wallace).

It's possible Portland can become more like the Spurs or the Lakers of recent vintage if Oden can put together healthy years. In which case, Aldridge would be a third-best player, like a Bynum or Ginobili. We'll have to see.

LMA is not as good as Wallace was with the Pistons, but I agree that's the closest comparison.

Like I said, generally speaking he's at best a 3rd best player on a championship team. Looking at the teams from the last 10 years, I think you'll agree.

 

[LittleAlex]

So, who was the banging PF on any of the Laker championship teams of the past 10 years?

You are under estimating the physicallity of Lamar Odom. Just because he swings between small forward, power forward and center doesn't mean he doesn't bring toughness to the team.

Besides which, Portland doesn't have an excellent low post scorer like Gasol.

The Pistons, on the other hand, were physical with Sheed, Wallace, Prince and company.

So were the Spurs.

So was Boston two years ago (probably the most physical team the NBA has seen in some time.)

Why limit your comparisons to the Lakers?

Lots of teams have won titles while having a physical power forward who does the dirty work. I dare say most of the titles in the last 30 years were won by teams that had such players.

Rodman, Horace Grant, Robert Horry, Tim Duncan, Ben Wallace, Kevin Garnet, Kendrick Perkins, etc.

It isn't the only ingrediant needed but it most certainly doesn't hurt the team in any way.

 

[BGrantFan]

The Detroit Pistons. Rasheed Wallace, IMO, was the second-best player on that team (after Billups) and I think Aldridge compares reasonably well. Wallace was a superior defender but, by that point in his career, was worse than Aldridge on offense.

You might reasonably say that I've selected the only team that works, but I think this Blazers team, as currently constituted, is closest to that Pistons team and so is a good analogue. A team without a couple of dominant players, but one star (Roy versus Billups), a very good but non-star player (Aldridge versus R. Wallace), a versatile defensive wing (Batum versus Prince), a solid non-star guard (Miller versus Hamilton) and an excellent defensive big (Camby versus B. Wallace).

It's possible Portland can become more like the Spurs or the Lakers of recent vintage if Oden can put together healthy years. In which case, Aldridge would be a third-best player, like a Bynum or Ginobili. We'll have to see.

Those Pistons were a veteran, team, too. I see Batum becoming a better overall player than Prince, and he is still 3 years younger than Prince was at the time. Aldridge is Detroit's Rasheed, but 5 years younger. Roy is even 3 years younger than Billups was during their title year.

If Oden is still a part of the future, then getting rid of Aldridge just doesn't make any sense to me, unless it's for a Bosh-like player without giving up Batum.

 

[BGrantFan]

You are under estimating the physicallity of Lamar Odom. Just because he swings between small forward, power forward and center doesn't mean he doesn't bring toughness to the team.

Odom is not a banger. An asshole? Sure. But he is not a bruising player.

The Pistons, on the other hand, were physical with Sheed, Wallace, Prince and company..

Wallace, yes. Claiming Sheed was physical is fucking hilarious, though.

Why limit your comparisons to the Lakers?

Lots of teams have won titles while having a physical power forward who does the dirty work. I dare say most of the titles in the last 30 years were won by teams that had such players.

Rodman, Horace Grant, Robert Horry, Tim Duncan, Ben Wallace, Kevin Garnet, Kendrick Perkins, etc.

It isn't the only ingrediant needed but it most certainly doesn't hurt the team in any way.

Robert Horry? Kendrick Perkins? Jesus, let's just throw out every player who ever played and call them "physical". So, anyhow, back to my post. Who was the banging PF on the Laker championship teams in the last ten years, since this guy didn't answer it.

 

[blazerboy30]

Great teams tend to have banging PFs

Proof please?

 

[Nate4Prez]

Right now, its as if we have two small forwards. Great teams tend to have banging PFs, and as much as we all love LA and his game, a banger he is not. He's a tall 3.

Like the Celtics? the Lakers? the Spurs? the Pistons?

Those are the winners of the last 10 NBA Championships. All those teams had great "banger" PF's right?

 

[Nikolokolus]

Like the Celtics? the Lakers? the Spurs? the Pistons?

Those are the winners of the last 10 NBA Championships. All those teams had great "banger" PF's right?

Well, maybe each of those team's 4s weren't quite a Carlos Boozer/Karl Malone type banger, but each of them had all-nba caliber defenders at either the four or the five ... If LMA ever gets to that point then I don't really care how he generates his offense

 

[MARIS61]

LaMarcus Aldridge

Right now, its as if we have two small forwards. Great teams tend to have banging PFs, and as much as we all love LA and his game, a banger he is not. He's a tall 3.

The piece about Buck Williams brought this home, when Clyde turned to him and said he was the missing ingredient...

...then Clyde realized Hakeem Olajuwan was the missing ingredient and the rest is history.

 

[OddEnormous]

...then Clyde realized Hakeem Olajuwan was the missing ingredient and the rest is history.

 

[XXPrimusXX]

I think LaMarcus saw this thread. He's bringing it tonight!

 

[KingSpeed]

Here is my thinking. It gives us 2 scenarios, and to me, it is win/win.

Scenario 1: Greg Oden stay healthy. Cousins is unhappy. I really don't give a shit, because Oden is healthy, so Cousins, go fuck yourself.

Scenario 2: Greg Oden gets hurt 2 weeks into the season again, and Cousins gets all his playing time and his happy.

But what if Oden is healthy but isn't all that good and it's a wash between him and Cousins with maybe Cousins being the more productive player?

 

[KingSpeed]

I love Buck Williams, but he was never the "missing ingredient", at least in terms of winning an NBA title. .

I disagree with this. We were ousted in the first round in 1989. Then we added Buck Williams and boom, we went to the Finals in 1990. No, we didn't win the title, but Buck was definitely the piece that put us in contention.

 

[KingSpeed]

What because they never won a title with him it means everything? The team was getting eliminated in the first round every year until Buck Williams showed up. The same with Brian Grant. 1 and done. That was the playoff motto until the toughness showed up.

To be fair, we had Dale Davis 2001-03 and he is about as tough a banger you can find and we didn't win a playoff series in his era.

 

[LittleAlex]

Odom is not a banger. An asshole? Sure. But he is not a bruising player.



Wallace, yes. Claiming Sheed was physical is fucking hilarious, though.




Robert Horry? Kendrick Perkins? Jesus, let's just throw out every player who ever played and call them "physical". So, anyhow, back to my post. Who was the banging PF on the Laker championship teams in the last ten years, since this guy didn't answer it.

Sheed did play a physical game when Detroit played well. Just because he doesn't now doesn't mean he never did. But then again your crack about Horry and Perkins leads me to believe you haven't ever seen either guy play one time.

Either that or we have a different idea of what physical would mean.

I take it to mean they play tough D and deliver a hard foul when a hard foul is needed.

What do you mean by physical?


As for the every player who ever played crack, that's just sad.

 

[BGrantFan]

I disagree with this. We were ousted in the first round in 1989. Then we added Buck Williams and boom, we went to the Finals in 1990. No, we didn't win the title, but Buck was definitely the piece that put us in contention.

Yet, we never won a title. Thus, I don't view Buck Williams as a missing ingredient, at least in terms of bringing a championship to Portland.