Politics The Postal Service, Voting, and Covid

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"Grampa you need to go to the app store and download the voting app for your smartphone."

"Nap store?"

"No grampa, app store."

"Okay but what's a smartbone?"
Well college students seem to be too stupid to figure out how to get out and vote that's what keeps killing Bernie so maybe mail-in and in-person voting is too hard too.
 
6% of the population doesn't have access broadband internet. There are public wifi options though. So the lack of internet service isn't really that much different for people in rural areas who have to drive miles to get to a post office.

and that defeats the purpose of having mail in voting for this election. People having to get out and have to go to a public place to vote is really no different than going to a polling station right? The concept is to make voting both AVAILABLE and SAFE. Also, those who likely don;t have internet are those elderly and minorities who are some of the highest risk categories for the virus. I think you have bought into too much of the trump conspiracy on mail in voting. Do you think it's appropriate what he is doing to the post office before the election?
 
and that defeats the purpose of having mail in voting for this election. People having to get out and have to go to a public place to vote is really no different than going to a polling station right? The concept is to make voting both AVAILABLE and SAFE. Also, those who likely don;t have internet are those elderly and minorities who are some of the highest risk categories for the virus. I think you have bought into too much of the trump conspiracy on mail in voting. Do you think it's appropriate what he is doing to the post office before the election?
I already said it wasn't.
 
I already said it wasn't.

It's hard to remember who says what sometimes so I find it better and easier to ask the question rather than put words into your post that might misrepresent what you stand for.

So, just for clarification, with the corona virus still attacking Americans, how would you prefer this election to be handled for voting as your idea of electronic on line voting at this stage isn't a very realistic option given the time till the election. I see the only real options as poll station voting or mail in voting. I prefer mail in due to the risks of the virus and if it ends up corrupt, then that would need to be addressed, but for trump to make a blanket statement with very little if any evidence that the election will be rigged is not only wrong but can also be conceived as extremely unethical. You have mentioned several times that Biden has made comments about voter fraud, but what has he done to suppress voting like trump is trying to do?
 
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and that defeats the purpose of having mail in voting for this election. People having to get out and have to go to a public place to vote is really no different than going to a polling station right? The concept is to make voting both AVAILABLE and SAFE. Also, those who likely don;t have internet are those elderly and minorities who are some of the highest risk categories for the virus. I think you have bought into too much of the trump conspiracy on mail in voting. Do you think it's appropriate what he is doing to the post office before the election?
Well, it's quite different actually cause you can sit in your car connect to wifi and vote instead of getting out stand in line and be in the same booth that 50 other people have been in.
 
It's hard to remember who says what sometimes so I find it better and easier to ask the question rather than put words into your post that might misrepresent what you stand for.
Fair enough, but earlier I said I didn't like that this is being done purely for re-election purposes, and if it's not the appearance is certainly out there and there is very little evidence to the contrary.
 
Well, it's quite different actually cause you can sit in your car connect to wifi and vote instead of getting out stand in line and be in the same booth that 50 other people have been in.

That isn't the issue I was addressing. I was addressing your idea of people being able to go to places with wifi cause they don't have access to the internet. If that's not what you meant then I'm not sure what you are addressing and like I mentioned those are typically the elderly and minorities who are at a higher risk at getting the virus.
 
That isn't the issue I was addressing. I was addressing your idea of people being able to go to places with wifi cause they don't have access to the internet. If that's not what you meant then I'm not sure what you are addressing and like I mentioned those are typically the elderly and minorities who are at a higher risk at getting the virus.
I guess I don't understand. It's a similar concept to driving up having someone put groceries in your car and driving off so you don't have to go in the store, and it lowers your exposure to the public. If you go to a public wifi area and can connect to wifi and vote in your car without getting out of your vehicle isn't that safer than driving in getting out of your car waiting in line, going to a shared voting booth. In this case, they drive up, there are public hotspots, they connect assuming they have devices (which might not be a safe assumption), they vote and drive off without having to get out of their car. Technically speaking most of the people without access to broadband internet are rural areas, which might be elderly but probably aren't minorities, though maybe some reservations I don't know.
 
I guess I don't understand. It's a similar concept to driving up having someone put groceries in your car and driving off so you don't have to go in the store, and it lowers your exposure to the public. If you go to a public wifi area and can connect to wifi and vote in your car without getting out of your vehicle isn't that safer than driving in getting out of your car waiting in line, going to a shared voting booth. In this case, they drive up, there are public hotspots, they connect assuming they have devices (which might not be a safe assumption), they vote and drive off without having to get out of their car. Technically speaking most of the people without access to broadband internet are rural areas, which might be elderly but probably aren't minorities, though maybe some reservations I don't know.


Well, we are kind of going in a different direction and really don;t see enough time to set up an online voting system that's secure and readily available for all. As long as the post office is stopped being fucked with by trump, mail in voting seems to be our best alternative to allow everyone to vote and be as safe as possible. That's all I am looking for, well that and trump getting his ass kicked in November. :bgrin:
 
That isn't the issue I was addressing. I was addressing your idea of people being able to go to places with wifi cause they don't have access to the internet. If that's not what you meant then I'm not sure what you are addressing and like I mentioned those are typically the elderly and minorities who are at a higher risk at getting the virus.
The reality is I realize the electronic voting isn't anywhere close to being ready. I think mail-in is 'probably' a good option, though I have some reservations just because I have 0 trust for Democrats or Republicans (as parties, not individuals), I fully expect this election to be fake and wrought with cheating. So yeah I think this is a bad time to dismantle the USPS. I am just saying my preferred method would be for electronic voting, I think it would by far be the easiest method especially as more and more people get devices and the internet and is long term a better option even with the security issues it could have. I think parts of the USPS should/could be privatized effectively, I think it still provides a decent service for some people. Though honestly from my POV very little seems to come our way from the USPS seems like it's almost entirely FedEx, and we really don't get much paper mail these days, that's anecdotal and I'm sure some people still rely on it.
So no I am not in favor of what's happened, especially right now, with how volatile things are and how ill-prepared we are for what's going on in this country, I am not happy with these decisions.
I am simply giving an alternate option to mail-in ballots going forward.
 
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I kinda think the issue with mail-in voting is less the idea of voter fraud but more the idea that on election night we wont have any idea who actually won. It's going to be a crazy election month or so. I think voter fraud might happen. I think it's fair to say since Biden and Trump have already said the other one will cheat, they'll both be cheating or at least groups trying to get them elected will be cheating.
I am not against mail-in voting, though like I said earlier if there was a secure way to do electronic/online voting I'd like that better.
Everything about this election is shaping up to be a nightmare.
There are multiple states where the result is not known on election night. In fact. the Constitution says nothing about when the counting has to end. Getting the results a little late from all the states rather than a few of the states won't affect things much. By the way, did you know that we've been using mail-in voting in Oregon for the last 20 years and our results have been pretty quick.
I can see no logical reason not to use it plus we have the proven results from numerous states to prove inductively that mail-in voting works without killing anyone from the needless exposure to Covid-19.
 
Well, I wasn't advocating pushing out an open-source app under MIT's license and putting it on a public server and publishing the IP/MAC Address on the front page of every major website with a tutorial on how to vote 100 times...
You'll never get a system that is perfectly hack-free or secure, but to the best of their ability, I'd prefer an electronic system to the mail-in. Also not saying they have a viable way forward with that for this election.
How many times has anyone voted 100 times? Zero?
 
Covid -19 death is more like 4% of the infected rate. Still, not a lot according to Trump. Hey, it's only 170,000 Americans. More than died in Korea and WWI combined. More than twice as many as we lost in Vietnam.
 
There are a lot of disabled people ...some from war wounds who live in rural areas and rely on a mailbox to get meds and all sorts of things they need and many cannot drive to a wireless hotspot or even walk ...I think the travel to vote option is a bullshit idea...with a few miles of my place there are a few dozen homesteads with mailboxes...one person brings all their mail...not 24 people driving to the library or post office to get a gift coupon from Fred meyers....the whole idea that everyone has all this technology and access or even wireless access is not reasonable
 
There are a lot of disabled people ...some from war wounds who live in rural areas and rely on a mailbox to get meds and all sorts of things they need and many cannot drive to a wireless hotspot or even walk ...I think the travel to vote option is a bullshit idea...with a few miles of my place there are a few dozen homesteads with mailboxes...one person brings all their mail...not 24 people driving to the library or post office to get a gift coupon from Fred meyers....the whole idea that everyone has all this technology and access or even wireless access is not reasonable
6% of the united states (that includes kids who aren't eligible to vote) don't have access to broadband. It's going to be everywhere eventually. The idea that technology isn't everywhere (because it is) is also just not reality. There are over 10 billion smartphones (alone) in use today. That's more than the population of the planet. Also broadband isn't the only form of data, out in the country a lot of people have dishes that provide internet for people. The idea that meds and all those things can only be brought to you by the USPS is also, just not true. My parents have meds delivered by UPS so I know they're capable...
Again it would be a fraction of people who would have to travel at all even today w/ electronic voting.
 
The reality is I realize the electronic voting isn't anywhere close to being ready. I think mail-in is 'probably' a good option, though I have some reservations just because I have 0 trust for Democrats or Republicans (as parties, not individuals), I fully expect this election to be fake and wrought with cheating. So yeah I think this is a bad time to dismantle the USPS. I am just saying my preferred method would be for electronic voting, I think it would by far be the easiest method especially as more and more people get devices and the internet and is long term a better option even with the security issues it could have. I think parts of the USPS should/could be privatized effectively, I think it still provides a decent service for some people. Though honestly from my POV very little seems to come our way from the USPS seems like it's almost entirely FedEx, and we really don't get much paper mail these days, that's anecdotal and I'm sure some people still rely on it.
So no I am not in favor of what's happened, especially right now, with how volatile things are and how ill-prepared we are for what's going on in this country, I am not happy with these decisions.
I am simply giving an alternate option to mail-in ballots going forward.

Which party have you seen doing voter suppression and which party emphasises all people need to get out and vote? I'll answer it for you. 1st is the republicans and second is the democrats. trump keeps calling mail in fraudulent. It really isn't that hard to see and I was never a democrat as I have always been an independent, but I see shit I don't like and choose the side I feel is more trustworthy. You keep pointing the finger at all as if they are all equally corrupt. I don't see it in todays parties.
 
6% of the united states (that includes kids who aren't eligible to vote) don't have access to broadband. It's going to be everywhere eventually. The idea that technology isn't everywhere (because it is) is also just not reality. There are over 10 billion smartphones (alone) in use today. That's more than the population of the planet. Also broadband isn't the only form of data, out in the country a lot of people have dishes that provide internet for people. The idea that meds and all those things can only be brought to you by the USPS is also, just not true. My parents have meds delivered by UPS so I know they're capable...
Again it would be a fraction of people who would have to travel at all even today w/ electronic voting.

Where are you getting the 6%? Here's an interesting article I found.

https://www.businessinsider.com/ame...ss-likely-underestimated-by-government-2020-3

Do you remember the last election for Governor in Georgia where they closed some polling stations in minority areas and voters in that area would have to take a bus and from what I recall the next polling station was like 25 miles away and majority didn't have transportation. Kemp was the Attorney General for that state and was running for governor and made that decision to close those polling stations.
 
Which party have you seen doing voter suppression and which party emphasises all people need to get out and vote? I'll answer it for you. 1st is the republicans and second is the democrats. trump keeps calling mail in fraudulent. It really isn't that hard to see and I was never a democrat as I have always been an independent, but I see shit I don't like and choose the side I feel is more trustworthy. You keep pointing the finger at all as if they are all equally corrupt. I don't see it in todays parties.
You can answer whatever you want for me, but I don't trust Republicans or Democrats and absolutely nothing they have done over the last 8ish years has done anything to make me feel otherwise. It's just made me feel more that way. I will not vote for them, they have sold us all out to China and Russia (and others), we are all just pawns to the elites. I see stuff I really don't like about all of them. Whether it's "equal" or not doesn't matter to me. It's just two 'evils', I don't care if one might be nice enough to stab me in the back and the other one will do it from in front.
 

and that's exactly what my article was addressing is that the government (whether intentional or not) are under reporting the amount of access people have to internet. Your article also states that the number jumps to 25% in rural areas. That's a significant number. Anyway, vote by internet isn't even a realistic option for this election anyway and this administration should be doing everything they can to make sure voting is safe and accessible to all and that's what mail in voting accomplishes. If it fails, then we have a history, but the little history we have had with states that have been doing vote by mail (Oregon for one) for several years with no major issues. I'm not even advocating that this is a permanent solution, but with a covid virus staring us all in the face we need to do everything we can to make it safe for this election and voting by mail accomplishes that the best way.
 
6% of the united states (that includes kids who aren't eligible to vote) don't have access to broadband. It's going to be everywhere eventually. The idea that technology isn't everywhere (because it is) is also just not reality. There are over 10 billion smartphones (alone) in use today. That's more than the population of the planet. Also broadband isn't the only form of data, out in the country a lot of people have dishes that provide internet for people. The idea that meds and all those things can only be brought to you by the USPS is also, just not true. My parents have meds delivered by UPS so I know they're capable...
Again it would be a fraction of people who would have to travel at all even today w/ electronic voting.
My meds, eyeglasses, bills, etc all come through the mailbox....when I was caring for disabled people theirs did too....another glitch with electronic voting is one big windstorm can knock power out in rural areas for long stretches...when access is everywhere and they have an accessable system...sure...change the system when there isn't an election and test it out...but don't do this 3 months before a presidential election....that is just really, really suspect...and the mail isn't a big deal to fund...we bail out wall street, banks, auto dealers, even farmers got 18 billion after the trade war...infrastructure spending to keep people already social distancing at home is a no brainer to me. Next thing we'll have to have a monthly fee to join the firefighters private service or the house can just burn...going after people already struggling is the wrong move in the summer of 2020
 
My meds, eyeglasses, bills, etc all come through the mailbox....when I was caring for disabled people theirs did too....another glitch with electronic voting is one big windstorm can knock power out in rural areas for long stretches...when access is everywhere and they have an accessable system...sure...change the system when there isn't an election and test it out...but don't do this 3 months before a presidential election....that is just really, really suspect...and the mail isn't a big deal to fund...we bail out wall street, banks, auto dealers, even farmers got 18 billion after the trade war...infrastructure spending to keep people already social distancing at home is a no brainer to me. Next thing we'll have to have a monthly fee to join the firefighters private service or the house can just burn...going after people already struggling is the wrong move in the summer of 2020
I literally said as much... So... This is exactly what I posted.
The reality is I realize the electronic voting isn't anywhere close to being ready. I think mail-in is 'probably' a good option, though I have some reservations just because I have 0 trust for Democrats or Republicans (as parties, not individuals), I fully expect this election to be fake and wrought with cheating. So yeah I think this is a bad time to dismantle the USPS. I am just saying my preferred method would be for electronic voting, I think it would by far be the easiest method especially as more and more people get devices and the internet and is long term a better option even with the security issues it could have. I think parts of the USPS should/could be privatized effectively, I think it still provides a decent service for some people. Though honestly from my POV very little seems to come our way from the USPS seems like it's almost entirely FedEx, and we really don't get much paper mail these days, that's anecdotal and I'm sure some people still rely on it.
So no I am not in favor of what's happened, especially right now, with how volatile things are and how ill-prepared we are for what's going on in this country, I am not happy with these decisions.
I am simply giving an alternate option to mail-in ballots going forward.
 
Where are you getting the 6%? Here's an interesting article I found.

https://www.businessinsider.com/ame...ss-likely-underestimated-by-government-2020-3

Do you remember the last election for Governor in Georgia where they closed some polling stations in minority areas and voters in that area would have to take a bus and from what I recall the next polling station was like 25 miles away and majority didn't have transportation. Kemp was the Attorney General for that state and was running for governor and made that decision to close those polling stations.
All true except Kemp was secretary of state, in charge of election where he was candidate.
 
Strawmen are neat.
No, I said my preference was secure (or as best as possible) online/electronic voting. I even said 2fa / ssn, maybe some sort of app they do have a IRS app and other apps that are supposedly pretty secure.

what difference does that make this November? We have the systems we have and right now, the R's are doing everything in their power to monkey-wrench the election. Everybody knows it. Talking about a theoretical voting system that could be in place a decade from now is pointless right now. There's an election in 10 weeks.

We need to be doing everything we can to make sure that everybody who wants to vote this November, and is eligible to vote, can vote. And all I'm seeing from you is indirect resistance to that principle or distraction from it...sorry

and by the way, your ideas, if they could expand legal voting, will go absolutely nowhere if the R's are in power. They want to restrict voting, not make it fairer, safer, and widely available
 

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:dancepenguin:
what difference does that make this November? We have the systems we have and right now, the R's are doing everything in their power to monkey-wrench the election. Everybody knows it. Talking about a theoretical voting system that could be in place a decade from now is pointless right now. There's an election in 10 weeks.

We need to be doing everything we can to make sure that everybody who wants to vote this November, and is eligible to vote, can vote. And all I'm seeing from you is indirect resistance to that principle or distraction from it...sorry

and by the way, your ideas, if they could expand legal voting, will go absolutely nowhere if the R's are in power. They want to restrict voting, not make it fairer, safer, and widely available
Never resisted it.
:dunno:

Just offered a suggestion as to how I think the future of voting should look like. Also during covid or a pandemic thats transferable in a similar way, I think my suggestion would work better than mail in, or in person.

What are any of our posts here gonna do to make it so that, people can vote easier? Lol

Edit Im not sure how the penguin got there but Im leaving it, cause he looks neat lol
 
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