Politics The Postal Service, Voting, and Covid

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I served with Fauci, Fauci was a friend of mine, sir, you're no Fauci.

Okay, deep down, you know I'm full of shit. What can I say, that's my character. Can't help it.
 
Cause we've got two political parties vying for power, who will do anything and everything to get that power. It's absolutely 100% confirmation bias and I realize that but absolutely nothing that's happened this year is surprising to me. Riots, Protests, Pandemics, misinformation, propaganda, etc. A house divided against itself cannot stand, and that's what the United States is. The divide and conquer politics has made for hyper-polarized people who think if they lose the election they'll be rounded up and sent to re-education centers or that neo-nazi's will start another genocide. So people turn a blind eye to the crap their side does because they have to win or else were in trouble. They have played the game of fear, and fear is a great motivator. It's why when a 5-year-old kid gets shot at point-blank riding his bike you can find people on Twitter literally saying he deserved it because he was white, and it's justifiable revenge. Or when a Black man gets killed you see people immediately go try to dig up dirt on why that Black man was actually a bad person so it's fine... It's because we're being programmed to hate each other. So when you see a president try to dismantle a service, and do it mostly for re-election purposes it's just more of that, and that's why this country is hurling quickly towards its end.

What voter fraud have the democrats been doing this election? It's very obvious what voter fraud the republicans are doing but you keep posting as if both parties are equally bad. Just curious what you have.
 
What voter fraud have the democrats been doing this election? It's very obvious what voter fraud the republicans are doing but you keep posting as if both parties are equally bad. Just curious what you have.
Well, that post had nothing at all to do with what you're talking about...
https://www.realclearpolitics.com/a...is_charged_in_nj_mail-in_election_143551.html


New Jersey may or may not be a problem there's a lot to dig into there, seen interesting articles saying it's not a problem, and some saying it could be.

I have said the democrats will cheat, just like the Republicans will because I believe they will. It's an opinion.
 
Well, that post had nothing at all to do with what you're talking about...
https://www.realclearpolitics.com/a...is_charged_in_nj_mail-in_election_143551.html
New Jersey may or may not be a problem there's a lot to dig into there, seen interesting articles saying it's not a problem, and some saying it could be.

I have said the democrats will cheat, just like the Republicans will because I believe they will. It's an opinion.

So you base your opinions without facts? Ok, so how will they cheat? Did they cheat on the last presidential election?
 
So you base your opinions without facts? Ok, so how will they cheat? Did they cheat on the last presidential election?
It's such a compelling argument when I continually post links as evidence supporting my thoughts and posted two links there about voter fraud and issues in the primaries...
I doubt many of them even get read, which is fine.
The post you quoted I didn't say anything about voter fraud though.
 

There's a high likelihood of 10 people out of 2 million ballots cast?

And that most of them was just people voting in 2 states? And that they were caught and their votes didn't count? Including one who claimed he was sick and didn't even remember voting twice?

And the other was an elderly woman taking care of her father in one state, voting there (why she would've registered is a different story all together), and then moved back to Oregon and voted there too.

4 of the 10 people were all retirement age. There was one of a 18 year old who was registered in Oregon, but going to college in Colorado, and registered there too.

there was also 14 extra cases that haven't be resolved (as of the writing the article). so Let's say 25 just for maths sake.

That means people are freaking out over .0000125%.

And of those cases, so far it doesn't sound like any of them are people cheating. At worst, you could argue that the lady who voted for her daughter "cheated" (tho there isn't enough information in the article to know if she called up her daughter and voted or not).
 
There's a high likelihood of 10 people out of 2 million ballots cast?

And that most of them was just people voting in 2 states? And that they were caught and their votes didn't count? Including one who claimed he was sick and didn't even remember voting twice?

And the other was an elderly woman taking care of her father in one state, voting there (why she would've registered is a different story all together), and then moved back to Oregon and voted there too.

4 of the 10 people were all retirement age. There was one of a 18 year old who was registered in Oregon, but going to college in Colorado, and registered there too.

there was also 14 extra cases that haven't be resolved (as of the writing the article). so Let's say 25 just for maths sake.

That means people are freaking out over .0000125%.

And of those cases, so far it doesn't sound like any of them are people cheating. At worst, you could argue that the lady who voted for her daughter "cheated" (tho there isn't enough information in the article to know if she called up her daughter and voted or not).
Did you read the first one?
I'm not freaking out.
 
It's such a compelling argument when I continually post links as evidence supporting my thoughts and posted two links there about voter fraud and issues in the primaries...
I doubt many of them even get read, which is fine.
The post you quoted I didn't say anything about voter fraud though.

never said you did as not all threads go in a straight line, but you are always saying both sides are bad equally and I haven't seen any evidence of voter fraud by the democrats and asking if you have. If I missed your links I apologize but their are hundreds of threads and like I said the other day, it's hard to always remember who said what and I would rather hear it directly rather than associate you with something you may not have said. If you don't want to answer my questions then just say so.
 
There's a high likelihood of 10 people out of 2 million ballots cast?

And that most of them was just people voting in 2 states? And that they were caught and their votes didn't count? Including one who claimed he was sick and didn't even remember voting twice?

And the other was an elderly woman taking care of her father in one state, voting there (why she would've registered is a different story all together), and then moved back to Oregon and voted there too.

4 of the 10 people were all retirement age. There was one of a 18 year old who was registered in Oregon, but going to college in Colorado, and registered there too.

there was also 14 extra cases that haven't be resolved (as of the writing the article). so Let's say 25 just for maths sake.

That means people are freaking out over .0000125%.

And of those cases, so far it doesn't sound like any of them are people cheating. At worst, you could argue that the lady who voted for her daughter "cheated" (tho there isn't enough information in the article to know if she called up her daughter and voted or not).
And those were just examples, you can use google if you'd like there's tons of articles out there. I never claimed voter fraud was a huge issue though. I claimed I think both parties cheat a lot. There are more ways to cheat then ballot stuffing, and that type of stuff. Considering the democrats spent years talking about how Russia cheated and helped Trump, and complained about facebook memes, seems like Democrats know there are more than way to try to win an election.
Yeah, I think there is good chance republicans and democrats cheat during elections. Apparently Democrats don't believe their party does it, and that's fine you can believe that I'm not trying to convince you otherwise.
 
btw, .0000125% of the total voter electorate (about 250m) is about 3000.

And while you may not be "freaking out", you are bringing it up as if it's an actual issue.

Making the claim, by anyone, that voter fraud for VBM is an actual issue, is done just to scare people into believing the latest con job by the GOP.
 
And those were just examples, you can use google if you'd like there's tons of articles out there. I never claimed voter fraud was a huge issue though. I claimed I think both parties cheat a lot. There are more ways to cheat then ballot stuffing, and that type of stuff. Considering the democrats spent years talking about how Russia cheated and helped Trump, and complained about facebook memes, seems like Democrats know there are more than way to try to win an election.
Yeah, I think there is good chance republicans and democrats cheat during elections. Apparently Democrats don't believe their party does it, and that's fine you can believe that I'm not trying to convince you otherwise.

I think those are two separate issues. Vote by mail has been done in Oregon for 20+ years, and has been available in Washington (state) for longer than that. The # of fraud cases in both are so low that to even bring it up as an issue is laughable.
 
btw, .0000125% of the total voter electorate (about 250m) is about 3000.

And while you may not be "freaking out", you are bringing it up as if it's an actual issue.

Making the claim, by anyone, that voter fraud for VBM is an actual issue, is done just to scare people into believing the latest con job by the GOP.
Sorry but no... I didn't bring it up... I was asked about it. I've said numerous times the "numbers" and the idea of if VBM / Voter fraud is an issue seems to be mostly a partisan one and I try to intentionally avoid posting links from websites I know heavily favor one side or the other, because especially on S2 if it's not neutral or to the left, it is dismissed outright which is fine.
 
I think those are two separate issues. Vote by mail has been done in Oregon for 20+ years, and has been available in Washington (state) for longer than that. The # of fraud cases in both are so low that to even bring it up as an issue is laughable.
The # of 'known' cases should be your sentence there. Do you think they catch all of it?
Again though I didn't bring it up.
 
The # of 'known' cases should be your sentence there. Do you think they catch all of it?
Again though I didn't bring it up.

You'd think after 20+ years and several million ballots cast in Oregon (and Washington state), there'd be a large % of them based on this logic.

Weird how there isn't.
 
I think those are two separate issues. Vote by mail has been done in Oregon for 20+ years, and has been available in Washington (state) for longer than that. The # of fraud cases in both are so low that to even bring it up as an issue is laughable.
Also, it's really not two separate issues. I said they'd both cheat, that was conflated to mean voter fraud which I didn't say. I did post some links about New Jersey's issues in the primaries. So when I say they cheat there are multiple ways they could and if they're really good at it then maybe we won't ever know.
 
You'd think after 20+ years and several million ballots cast in Oregon (and Washington state), there'd be a large % of them based on this logic.

Weird how there isn't.
Depends on how good they are at cheating. Do you think everyone who speeds gets caught?
 
You'd think after 20+ years and several million ballots cast in Oregon (and Washington state), there'd be a large % of them based on this logic.

Weird how there isn't.
Maybe a better question do you think Republicans cheat and Democrats don't? If so that would mean that Republicans are just very bad at it since they lost a lot in 2018...
 
Depends on how good they are at cheating. Do you think everyone who speeds gets caught?
Bad example.
There's incentive to speed.
There's no incentive to commit voter fraud.
Maybe a better question do you think Republicans cheat and Democrats don't? If so that would mean that Republicans are just very bad at it since they lost a lot in 2018...
I think Republicans made an issue out of thin air so they would have an excuse to suppress voting by the disadvantaged whom usually vote for Democrats.
There's very little fraudulent voting, virtually none, even by Republicans.
 
Maybe a better question do you think Republicans cheat and Democrats don't? If so that would mean that Republicans are just very bad at it since they lost a lot in 2018...

I think Republicans are much better at cheating than Democrats are.
 
Bad example.
There's incentive to speed.
There's no incentive to commit voter fraud.

I think Republicans made an issue out of thin air so they would have an excuse to suppress voting by the disadvantaged whom usually vote for Democrats.
There's very little fraudulent voting, virtually none, even by Republicans.
Again, I have really said very little about voter fraud that's been mostly, you guys. I posted some links about VBM in the primaries and issues they've had. I've talked about election cheating which obviously goes way beyond voter fraud...
There’s plenty of incentive for the DNC and GOP to cheat. The group's sole purposes are fundraising, political power, and centralizing power within their elites. Seems like they have all the incentive in the world to do anything and everything they can to win.

The voter fraud issue seems to be mostly just partisan bullcrap.
I've even said that short term I think mail-in voting is the right way to go, so I'm not sure what the issue is lol.
 
Again, I have really said very little about voter fraud that's been mostly, you guys. I posted some links about VBM in the primaries and issues they've had. I've talked about election cheating which obviously goes way beyond voter fraud...
There’s plenty of incentive for the DNC and GOP to cheat. The group's sole purposes are fundraising, political power, and centralizing power within their elites. Seems like they have all the incentive in the world to do anything and everything they can to win.

The voter fraud issue seems to be mostly just partisan bullcrap.
I've even said that short term I think mail-in voting is the right way to go, so I'm not sure what the issue is lol.
You've made it clear that you don't trust both sides whereas I pretty much trust both sides except that I don't trust Republicans to not try to suppress voting by the disadvantaged. One politician in Pennsylvania admitted to suppressing voting by the disadvantaged by requiring ID to vote. Others are more sneaky about it.
Others may have queried you on the subject but you have made your position quite clear to me and I strongly suspect you've made your position very clear to others, as well.
 
I've posted already about the Heritage Foundations research into voting fraud....since 1998 in Oregon 14 attempts at fraud out of just under 56 million votes in 22 years.....that's damned low...for the republicans to campaign against mail in voting and refusal to fund the post office 90 days before a presidential election I think it's obvious which party is playing partisan politics here...and for the record I'm not a democrat but I'm now vehemently anti republican....they've lost all trust and reasonable doubt after refusing to respect Congressional subpoenas and refusing to work with democrats on issues as important as a deadly pandemic.....what is bullshit is washing that over because "both parties are partisan and probably cheat"......sorry...look to the Lincoln project and guys like George Bush to find that the GOP is losing it's own champions over refusing to hold Trump accountable....you don't need to have a political affiliation to sort out what's wrong with the current political mess but one should have strong convictions about failed government....which our government has definitely been in regards to covid response and an impeachment trial or protecting the Constitution
 
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You've made it clear that you don't trust both sides whereas I pretty much trust both sides except that I don't trust Republicans to not try to suppress voting by the disadvantaged. One politician in Pennsylvania admitted to suppressing voting by the disadvantaged by requiring ID to vote. Others are more sneaky about it.
Others may have queried you on the subject but you have made your position quite clear to me and I strongly suspect you've made your position very clear to others, as well.
So you trust both sides except in all the occasions where you don't. :)

There are individuals I trust who call themselves Democrats and Republicans. The elites (for lack of a better term at the moment) of Republicans and Democrats I do not trust and there seems to be way more evidence out there to suggest they shouldn't be trusted than there is that they should be. Not just with the elections themselves but the actions of those who have won offices.
 
I've posted already about the Heritage Foundations research into voting fraud....since 1998 in Oregon 14 attempts at fraud out of just under 56 million votes in 22 years.....that's damned low...for the republicans to campaign against mail in voting and refusal to fund the post office 90 days before a presidential election I think it's obvious which party is playing partisan politics here...and for the record I'm not a democrat but I'm now vehemently anti republican....they've lost all trust and reasonable doubt after refusing to respect Congressional subpoenas and refusing to work with democrats on issues as important as a deadly pandemic.....what is bullshit is washing that over because "both parties are partisan and probably cheat"......sorry...look to the Lincoln project and guys like George Bush to find that the GOP is losing it's own champions over refusing to hold Trump accountable....you don't need to have a political affiliation to sort out what's wrong with the current political mess but one should have strong convictions about failed government....which our government has definitely been in regards to covid response and an impeachment trial or protecting the Constitution
You can hate republicans and Trump and champion the Lincoln project or whatever you'd like I'm not stopping you. Nor am I campaigning against mail-in voting. I'm anti-Democrats and anti-Republicans in the colloquial sense of the elites who run them. I'd agree our government has failed us.
 
people I trust don't claim to be Democrats and Republicans...they have decided on one or the other
I guess I should have been more clear, I have people who I trust who are Democrats and some that are Republicans, I think you knew that's what I meant though...
 

but, take a look at those links and analyze what they are really saying

the first is from a right wing think tank, and that think tank is one of the main go-to sources of propaganda for the R's when they try and justify voter suppression. I know that because I've seen them cited repeatedly by people like Kris Kobach and other right wing advocates of voter suppression; and I've been tracking this for years.

For chirssakes that fucking think tank was founded by Steve Bannon; also Peter Schweizer, another inmate at Breitbart...lol. Why the hell would anyone accept their "analysis" on face value?

And that 'report' they printed is slippery as hell. They make a big deal about using buzzwords and numbers that sound large, but when you follow the train a little further you end up with much much smaller numbers, and a large percentage of those numbers are unconfirmed

for instance, they say they found 7700 cases of 'likely' duplicate voting, but the reality is they only found 1200 cases of "confirmed" duplicate voting....out of 128M votes cast. In case you're wondering, that's .00009%. LOL.

they say they found 15,000 cases of 'illegal' addresses like PO boxes. How many of those cases were due to people not knowing those were invalid addresses. And how many of them actually voted and did any of those votes count, or were they all disqualified because of the addresses. That seems extremely likely and that's the system working, not failing; but you wouldn't know that if you were buying the tone of the supposed report

or that they found 1.8 million cases of deceased on voting rolls. There's almost no evidence at all there is any significant level of dead people voting...or of people voting in place of dead people. But doesn't that 1.8M number sound huge!! And, just how quickly should state election divisions remove dead people from rolls? Shouldn't they wait until they receive confirmation of death? How long does that take? I'd wager there's a much higher incidence of voters being declared ineligible because they have wrongly been listed as dead, that fraud from these registrations

That isn't a report at all...it's just an anecdotal collection of few small numbers and giant truckloads of innuendo and horseshit designed as cover for voter suppression. But more than that is the implication that this stuff is new. It's not; these are age-old issues, and none of it has undermined democracy like the republican jihad of voter suppression has

your other link was about 10 convictions for voter fraud in Oregon....out of over 2 million votes cast.

***********************************

certainly, you and I have different perspectives on this....and different biases I guess. You seem to find a basis for a 'pox-on-both-houses-both-sides-do-it' narrative that fits you overall view on things political

I view it as further evidence that the R's are using bullshit as the justification for massive voter suppression. And now, they are using the same bullshit as a loose justification for destroying the postal service. They have no interest at all in the integrity of elections...nothing could be more obvious.

think about it TB...you used a report from Steve Bannon as a justification of your position...really?
 
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