OT The Progressive march to National Healthcare

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Shouldn't be too hard for some of those Princeton and Bob Jones people to add it to the Constitution.

I suspect that if this mess is to get fixed, they best get er done. Their work ought to take less than one page. Better hire some designers to do the heavy lifting after that.

Dammit! we are at 3000 pages now and it don't mean shit!
 

Shouldn't be too hard for some of those Princeton and Bob Jones people to add it to the Constitution.

Just an aside.
I was walking by the Woodrow Wilson school once, and the thought occurred to me, What the heck is that all about?
I did not have a clue, I was so far from that, it is surprising I ever figured it out.
I was there for something else like in another Universe, to meet with Kurt Gödel.
 
Senator Wyden,

Well I see the Democrats taking a Victory lap today since the Republicans fell on their sword.
However, the Democrats made this mess we have today as a healthcare system.

I am retired, my wife and I had health care though my retirement.
But that vanished thanks to the wisdom of the designers of the Affordable Care Act.
That can not be fixed now, but things are not right with ACA and victory laps are not appropriate.

Watching the proceeding both times by Congress, it is now, more than apparent that
Congress lacks the knowledge to fix the system. Handling the purse strings is enough,
time to hire some system designers to design a proper system.

I urge you, to get the Democrats to work with the Republicans to fix this issue.
It seems plain to me now, especially since the insurance industry has been twisted about and rights
have been given that are too difficult to retract, a National Healthcare System is now required.
I think this should be authorized by Congress by beginning the process of
Amending the Constitution to make Nation Healthcare the business of the the federal government.
Perhaps this work can be combined with the improvement to the VA that President Trump wants to see happen.

But please specify the entity to do the design of the system, other than Congress.
One page describing the amendment should be the work of Congress.

Sincerely
MarAzul
 
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Hey Sly!
Please change the thread title word "progress" to Progressive. I can never see these things until hours later.
Every thing always look like I want it to look. Probably lack of attention but... the way it is.
 
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These fucking shit stains had 8 years. 8 years! To draft something better. Clown town. All they said for the last forever was "repeal Obamacare, repeal Obamacare!". And these fucking sad sack loser idiots can't even agree on how to do it! After having 8 years to figure it out. Morons.

And the "master negotiator" trotted out this radioactive fecal fire hoping to negotiate it towards the middle with the democrats, only to learn he needed to negotiate it further to the right to appease the tea baggers! And it still shit the bed! What a buffoon!

Republicans, this is your party. A bunch of fucking idiots, led by a clown. About as useful as tits on a rose bush.

But but but..
Obamacare!!.. Muslims are evil!!! Mexicans are criminals!!! Build a wall!!! Make America Great again!!! Winning!!!
 
No, these guy do not apparently know any of the things I know. But more to the point I only have Democrats representing me. Now if anything gets fixed, I guess it will have to come from them
as far a healthcare is concerned.

Two of them are also your representatives, so I hope you help me get them going, the house republicans are incapable and I just can't put all hope in Democrat Peter DeFazio. I assume he isn't your representative.

I live in NH, my senators would have enthusiastically voted nay on this turd.
 
Ron Wyden lived right around the corner from us growing up...... great guy but still owes me $45 from the summer of '86 for some lawn mowing jobs

Probably predictable. Living here out of a carpet bag, long enough to get elected. Then out a here.
 
I have no problem with this...Taiwan ran their system through pure sales tax...worked like a charm..you buy something the rcpt has a number...every Friday it's a national lottery for sales rcpts...you have expendable income and shop for anything, you contribute to national health care..on top of that for a family you had a flat fee of about 20 dollars a month to contribute and pharmacuticals and clinc visits would cost a copay of about 10 bucks a visit or prescription. I was in the hospital with a flesh killing bacteria under quarantine for two weeks...intensive fight to save my leg....with national healthcare my copay was 800 bucks for everything including 24 hour care and after they cured it. Would have to sell my house in the States to pay for that.

That damned nationalized healthcare!
 
If I interpret history correctly, Benito Mussolini is the founder of the Progressive movement in the United States. He was also the originator of the National Socialist movement in Europe. Quit a feat for a small time communist in Italy.

Well the National Socialist are gone in Europe, and no one remembers Benito as the originator of the progressive movement in this country, and perhaps the connection is not a solid line. Woodrow Wilson admired Mussolini very much and began to use his programs and techniques for his own end. While some credit Teddy Roosevelt as the first Progressive, but it has to be Wilson that really got it underway. When Benito hired Maria Montessori to teach the children of Italy to be different than their fathers, Woodrow Wilson pickup that mission as his own for the public school system in this country. Make the children as different from their fathers as possible.

Well time has passed, National Socialism became a nasty thing, and Progressive sort of did too because of the connection through Wilson - Mussolini. Liberal became the word and the movement lived on, but you see Progressive becoming the favored word again since time continues to pass and liberal wears out it's welcome.

The school system however, continued on, making the children ever more different from their father as more generations come and and fade.

This is some of the best stuff I've ever read on this forum. Just the first paragraph has so much great stuff to unpack. It lost a little momentum after this, but I'm going to save this part. So that I can read it whenever I need a little pick-me-up.
 
Just for Clarity and those that might wonder if I have slipped a gear, I do not want a National Health Care system. I loath the reality that we are there! We have a National Health Care System
today, right now and it sucks. It was brought to us a piece at a time, a step forward to the goal, one step, then another, until we are here! With a barely functional system, never designed, but guided to the enclosure, like sheep by the progressives, little by little generation after generation.

Not one conservative leader every took us back one step. Amazing! Never back, although a few spoke of the dangers, no meaningful regression was every attempted until this week. Trump
tried to push the Congress for one step back! I applaud his try, but people become accustom to the benefits at hand. They have no fear of what the can not see, and do not long for what is not in memory. Their Representative are electable and not much more. They can not help the people see nor do they remember themselves, the better way. So we can not go back, for many reasons.

I could tell you the way it worked when it was damn near ideal. It left room for people strive for more, but it was not bad for even the those that lagged. I am not speaking of the science of health care, that is far better today and I expect more tomorrow. I am speak of how we pay for what we had, the system we had. But I think I will save you the time, as it is pointless. The path to that place is not visible to the pathfinders, and no one can hear those that remember.

So we must go forward, what we have is crap, I can remember very good, this is crap.

I think I will even save you from reading the steps we took, from Good to Crap. Because that is too much like finding the lost trail.


To make a long long story short, I now think you all need to push for a National Health Care System. You have a Republican President that I think would sign the law if it could be sent before him. You have a Republican Congress that just humiliated themselves and they need some success and I think there are enough of them that just may see what I see. There is no other way.
Then you have a bunch of Democrats in the Congress that have been for this for as long as they can remember. You need to chide them for celebration of a hollow victory, it was they, that took the last step that brought you this crap.

You need to forget about whether the Democrats own this or the Republicans. Neither one does, you do! You need to kick ass now, the nearest Representative’s derrière will do just fine. You need to push them all hard for a proper Health Care System and it might as well be the Cadillac plan you seek. One that works for you where ever you go, doing what you do.
 
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MarAzul, what are your thoughts on Medicare? Good system, bad system?
 
MarAzul, what are your thoughts on Medicare? Good system, bad system?

Not good at all. It was a major contributor to the down fall of the our health care system. Primarily because it only reimburses the providers, hospitals at a partial level. Leave the remainder
to be cost shift to those that can pay, like those that have insurance. This is really bad for a major section of the our system, the self insured employers. Year ago, before the cost shifting
became a thing, they were providing us insurance at a average cost of 52% of what it cost you from an insurance company, Of course cost shift screwed this up badly.

Then the providers are encouraged by the system to run you through all the crap that Medicare will reimburse them for performing. Provide a code, get paid. I call it mining the patient.
I like the VA since it saves me from this stuff, they don't get paid for codes. But that has fault too.
 
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Not good at all. It was a major contributor to the down fall of the our health care system. Primarily because it only reimburses the providers, hospitals at a partial level. Leave the remainder
to be cost shift to those that can pay, like those that have insurance. This is really bad for a major section of the our system, the self insured employers.

So Medicare would be a lot better if it fully reimbursed health care providers, for everyone enrolled in the system?
 
So Medicare would be a lot better if it fully reimbursed health care providers, for everyone enrolled in the system?

Not sure what you suggest here, but either way, no it is still poor.

When people paid their provider directly, that is without the intermediary, Medicare or and Insurance company, the providers did not need a several people on staff to understand codes
and do the billing Cost shifting still occurred but the freeloader was rare. The standard rate of course needed to compensate for the freeloader but like I say it was rare and the rates were low.
Medicare became the first government run systematic partial freeloader. Followed about ten years later by Medicaid. Then the insurance companies joined in with the "in network provider" system squeezing the provider from another direction. This then left those that pay their own bills and the self insured employers to be targets still standing, taking the brunt of the cost shifting.

Ah ha! a new market for the insurance companies, the self insured employers. Not to sell them insurance but to save them money by managing their plans to provide their employees coverage. Thereby saving them money by shielding them from cost shifting by the providers.
This had another undesirable effect, taking the consumer out of the loop except as being a patient. He no longer paid the bills or even knowing the amount.

In the mean time, more and more people without insurance or an employee health care become the reality for several reason (another story). So the need to cost shift become ever greater for the providers. Laws like the EMTALA act were passed which require the providers to treat those that have no means of paying. Pushing the cost the providers must charge even higher, really sticking it to those that do not have a intermediary with agreement with the provider.

So now the provider have quite a staff to manage this chaos, which doesn't help actual costs at all, trying to find ways to increase revenue. Crap what a deal, providers have to worry about revenue instead of Healthcare! Non profit hospitals slowly learn, charge the maxim for every service or procedure regardless of the actual cost. Break every thing down to the most number of codes
that will be be remebused by Medicare, Medicaid, or the Insurance company. Make sure every procedure a patient is eligible to receive is use and billed. I could expand the hell out of this section
participially from personal experience, but you can thank me later for saving you this tale.

Healthcare is now out of reach for everyone that is without a intermediary (the cash customer) that has any means, like a home, but is not rich. Homestead law in most states protected most people from losing the home, but inflation of the 70s and 80s wiped that out. In Oregon the law protects 40K of home value and that covered the bulk of homes prior to inflation, but today it is close to meaningless. Hospital can and will get a judgement to collect their cost shift bloated bills from the non payers that have means. The 40k left will probably be blown before you can recover your senses. In 2009 I think, a group in Oregon attempted to get this old Homestead protection updated via initiative. But the liberal state administration fought it at every turn and it failed to get the signatures in on time.

So if you ask, should Medicare fully reimburse providers? My answer would be, fuck no! The total system needs to be redesigned to encourage healthcare efficiently.
If you ask, should everyone be enrolled in Medicare? My answer would be, fuck no! The total system needs to be...

I see several liked your question, they can ask some too.
 
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So if you ask, should Medicare fully reimburse providers? My answer would be, fuck no! The total system needs to be redesigned to encourage healthcare efficiently.
If you ask, should everyone be enrolled in Medicare? My answer would be, fuck no! The total system needs to be...

What re-design would you like to see? How would you like the health care system in America to work?
 
How would you like the health care system in America to work?
Seriously produce greatly improved longevity and the quality of life, at a fraction of the cost, and please a 100 percent. :cool2:
 
I think the cost of a medical degree should be zero and would like a competitive quota system test based, temperament based, skill based to be filled by candidates from high school who earn the scholarships and increase the amount of medical school graduates by a large amount...then lower the pay scale...no more quarter million dollar college debt to pay for by over charging patients...more competitions...more neighborhood privately owned clinics capable of dealing with most needs. Doctors, teachers, should get equal pay then and benefits...also raise the bar for syllabus material in public school...take the time to have a quality ciriculum and hold administrators accountable for maintaining good education practices...no more mailing it in.
 
Seriously produce greatly improved longevity and the quality of life, at a fraction of the cost, and please a 100 percent. :cool2:

Seems like there are some other places that get closer to that than we do. Maybe we should copy their homework, since we can't seem to figure out the answer ourselves.

barfo
 
Seems like there are some other places that get closer to that than we do. Maybe we should copy their homework, since we can't seem to figure out the answer ourselves.

barfo

It's not as though the basic idea of just expanding Medicare to cover everyone is all that complex. It's that you can't sell the idea to the Tea Partiers because of their notions that government entitlement programs are borne of the devil, or to all of the labor, public employee and teacher's unions that have spent the past fifty years pushing Cadillac health insurance for their members and aren't about to take some stripped down Chevy.
 
It's not as though the basic idea of just expanding Medicare to cover everyone is all that complex. It's that you can't sell the idea to the Tea Partiers because of their notions that government entitlement programs are borne of the devil, or to all of the labor, public employee and teacher's unions that have spent the past fifty years pushing Cadillac health insurance for their members and aren't about to take some stripped down Chevy.

Nothing wrong with cadillac health care. Instead of complaining about about their coverage we should talk about improving ours.
 
Nothing wrong with cadillac health care. Instead of complaining about about their coverage we should talk about improving ours.

I'm all for Cadillac's for everyone. Hell, since the imports are so much better, let's all get Mercedes or Volvos. Somebody has to pay for it though. Don't know about you, but I'm about tapped out on healthcare.
 
It's not as though the basic idea of just expanding Medicare to cover everyone is all that complex. It's that you can't sell the idea to the Tea Partiers because of their notions that government entitlement programs are borne of the devil, or to all of the labor, public employee and teacher's unions that have spent the past fifty years pushing Cadillac health insurance for their members and aren't about to take some stripped down Chevy.

There exist currently insurance plans that supplement Medicare - I assume those would still exist even if Medicare covered everyone. Single payer does not prevent anyone from paying additional money for additional service/coverage. But I do see the point that it would be hard to get agreement that government employees should get a better plan than the rest of the citizens (even though that's the current situation, on average). Then again part of the tradeoff is that government employees are often paid less than their private sector equivalents.

barfo
 

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