The race for Home Court Advantage

[H.C.]

I bet, if someone were to care enough.
They could find multiple posts of a certain poster claiming Portland was title contenders the season Wes went down.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

I bet, if someone were to care enough.
They could find multiple posts of a certain poster claiming Portland was title contenders the season Wes went down.

Maybe even from a week after Wes' injury...

Indiana is title contender. As are San Antonio, Portland, and Atlanta. That's it.

 

[hoopsjock]

Maybe even from a week after Wes' injury...

I'm getting the website down but I haven't really explored how to look up posts from a few years ago.

If I'm reading your post right, @KingSpeed didn't even include the Cavs and Warriors as title contenders towards the end of that season but is now claiming that those two teams "were a class above" everyone else?

 

[KingSpeed]

Who was Dallas 2nd best player... Caron Butler...? Lol.

Yes.

 

[KingSpeed]

This whole post only makes sense with the benefit of hindsight. Pretty much all of the downward spiral you speak of happened prior to the Afflalo trade. The Blazers had a historically bad bench. Trading for a quality player like Afflalo did make a huge difference. Wes going down moved Afflalo into the starting lineup and made our bench even worse since we had traded Barton and T-Rob. Afflalo got hurt too, you forgot that fact. CJ had been injured for portions of his first two seasons as well and wasn't ready to breakout quite yet. Wes was the heart and soul of that team. When he went down everyone knew that season was over. To say otherwise is changing the narrative after the fact.

The Warriors hadn't won shit up until that point other than ONE playoff series against the Nuggets two years prior. Not one person thought they would be this good. The Cavs hadn't ever won a title either so you can't just hand them a title.

But we started the season 30-8 WITHOUT Afflalo. How did we play THAT great and then THAT horrible? And how can you say CJ wasn't ready yet when he broke out a couple months later in the playoffs?? Also, the Warriors won 65+ games that year and Curry was MVP. How can you say nobody thought they'd be that good. EVERYBODY thought they were that good.

 

[KingSpeed]

So the downward spiral was a grand total of 11-11? I guess the phrase 'downward spiral' means different things to different people.

11-11 is AWFUL after you just went 30-8. Fell from 2nd best record in West to 6th. Happened the year before too when we started the year 24-5 and then fell to 5th place in West.

 

[KingSpeed]

I bet, if someone were to care enough.
They could find multiple posts of a certain poster claiming Portland was title contenders the season Wes went down.

I always believe our team can win the title every year. But when the year is over, I can objectively say the team that won the whole thing deserved it. Neil said the same thing. He said "we simply weren't good enough" and that's why he didn't throw money at Wes and Lopez and traded Batum.

 

[Strenuus]

I always believe our team can win the title every year. But when the year is over, I can objectively say the team that won the whole thing deserved it. Neil said the same thing. He said "we simply weren't good enough" and that's why he didn't throw money at Wes and Lopez and traded Batum.

Didn't the Warriors only win it because of injuries? I swore I heard that from someone.

 

[KingSpeed]

Didn't the Warriors only win it because of injuries? I swore I heard that from someone.

Yes. But they still won it nonetheless.

 

[BonesJones]

Yes.

He wasn't. Chandler was their entire defensive identity. Kidd was still solid. Marion and Terry were as valuable as him.

 

[BonesJones]

But we started the season 30-8 WITHOUT Afflalo. How did we play THAT great and then THAT horrible? And how can you say CJ wasn't ready yet when he broke out a couple months later in the playoffs?? Also, the Warriors won 65+ games that year and Curry was MVP. How can you say nobody thought they'd be that good. EVERYBODY thought they were that good.

I agree that CJ was definitely ready, he was playing great before the Afflalo trade. The thing with Afflalo is he, Dame, and Wes could play on the floor together.

Was their schedule a lot harder during that stretch? Could have something to do with it.

 

[Strenuus]

Yes. But they still won it nonetheless.

So, did they deserve it?

 

[KingSpeed]

He wasn't. Chandler was their entire defensive identity. Kidd was still solid. Marion and Terry were as valuable as him.

Those guys were all good. They're one of my favorite teams of all time and obviously it's an understatement to say they were still good without him, but when Butler went down, he was the second option on offense.

 

[KingSpeed]

I agree that CJ was definitely ready, he was playing great before the Afflalo trade. The thing with Afflalo is he, Dame, and Wes could play on the floor together.

Was their schedule a lot harder during that stretch? Could have something to do with it.

No "harder" schedule is an excuse for going 6-11 especially after starting the season 30-8. I mean what the fuck?

 

[BonesJones]

No "harder" schedule is an excuse for going 6-11 especially after starting the season 30-8. I mean what the fuck?

6-11 is a specifically selected sample. Every good team usually has a stretch somewhat like that. I remember us having an extremely easy schedule to start the season and then us having a very tough stretch. Definitely could've played at the same level, and during a tough stretch against harder teams, a couple of balls could bounce their way and all of a sudden we have a poor stretch. It happens.

 

[BonesJones]

Those guys were all good. They're one of my favorite teams of all time and obviously it's an understatement to say they were still good without him, but when Butler went down, he was the second option on offense.

Yes but that's all he brought. They won the championship because they have good two-way/all-around players. Gotta value more than scoring.. For that reason I wouldn't claim him as their 2nd best player since they obviously had no problem scoring without him.

Wes brought much more than offense.

 

[KingSpeed]

6-11 is a specifically selected sample. Every good team usually has a stretch somewhat like that. I remember us having an extremely easy schedule to start the season and then us having a very tough stretch. Definitely could've played at the same level, and during a tough stretch against harder teams, a couple of balls could bounce their way and all of a sudden we have a poor stretch. It happens.

Every good team has a 6-11 stretch? Have we even had an 6-11 stretch this season? I don't know if we have. It's simply a very disappointing stretch after going 30-8. The Warriors kept playing well and won the championship and we collapsed, fell to 6th, and lost the first round in 5 games. Very frustrating as a fan.

 

[KingSpeed]

Yes but that's all he brought. They won the championship because they have good two-way/all-around players. Gotta value more than scoring.. For that reason I well-represented couldn't claim him as their 2nd best player since they obviously had no problem scoring without him.

Wes brought much more than offense.

We was our third best player at best. Butler was an All Star. We had two All-NBA players still on the team.

 

[ripcityboy]

More concerned about how we stuck up against certain teams rather than have home court advantage.

 

[BonesJones]

Every good team has a 6-11 stretch? Have we even had an 6-11 stretch this season? I don't know if we have. It's simply a very disappointing stretch after going 30-8. The Warriors kept playing well and won the championship and we collapsed, fell to 6th, and lost the first round in 5 games. Very frustrating as a fan.

I said somewhat like that. A couple bounces in two games is the difference between 8-9 and 6-11. We have a 6-9 stretch, probably a worse one. Why did we collapse though? Wes... What is the debate here?

 

[H.C.]

I always believe our team can win the title every year. But when the year is over, I can objectively say the team that won the whole thing deserved it. Neil said the same thing. He said "we simply weren't good enough" and that's why he didn't throw money at Wes and Lopez and traded Batum.

So you admit to not posting objectively during the season.
Perfect.
So now when you say 'gsw won't make the playoffs because they got blown out by utah by 30'.
We can say KS, be objective.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

Every good team has a 6-11 stretch? Have we even had an 6-11 stretch this season? I don't know if we have. It's simply a very disappointing stretch after going 30-8. The Warriors kept playing well and won the championship and we collapsed, fell to 6th, and lost the first round in 5 games. Very frustrating as a fan.

The 2-8 stretch that accounted for the majority of the losses in our "downward spiral" ended when RoLo returned from injury. When healthy, the 14-15 team was a contender. If you're objective, you can see that.

 

[BrianFromWA]

I don't know...I feel like if we had a 6-11 stretch come up right now this place would fucking explode with drama and trolling. "Trade errrrbody!" "Fire Stotts!" "Dame and CJ can't play together!" "Don't re-sign Nurk!" "Why TF isn't Biggie getting more minutes?!"

And we're just a team that most have pegged as a .500 club, not one that should be fighting for HCA in the first two rounds.

 

[KingSpeed]

More concerned about how we stuck up against certain teams rather than have home court advantage.

I want HCA. We haven't had HCA in a playoff series since 2009!! It would be a great accomplishment.

 

[KingSpeed]

I said somewhat like that. A couple bounces in two games is the difference between 8-9 and 6-11. We have a 6-9 stretch, probably a worse one. Why did we collapse though? Wes... What is the debate here?

The 6-11 collapse happened while Wes was playing.

 

[BonesJones]

We was our third best player at best. Butler was an All Star. We had two All-NBA players still on the team.

Butler was an all-star 3 years prior... Should the Lakers be playing better since they have 3 all-stars (Deng, Lopez, Thomas)?

In 29 games during the year, Caron Butler was averaging 15ppg, 4rpg, and 1.6apg, on a non-efficient 52TS%. Not all-star numbers at all. And he was a worse defender than Chandler, Kidd, Marion, Stevenson, etc.

For reference, Jason Terry averaged more points per game, on better efficiency, with more assists.
Tyson Chandler was a top 3 defensive center in the league.
Jason Kidd was a very good defender who got almost 8apg.
Shawn Marion got 12.5ppg on better effiency with better rebounding and great defense

Caron Butler was the 6th best player on that team.

 

[BonesJones]

The 6-11 collapse happened while Wes was playing.

After that. Because every team will have a lull and it's false to claim that we were going to continue playing that poorly if Wes remained healthy.

 

[KingSpeed]

So you admit to not posting objectively during the season.
Perfect.
So now when you say 'gsw won't make the playoffs because they got blown out by utah by 30'.
We can say KS, be objective.

I have maintained for weeks now that the trash warriors will make the playoffs but that I'd be shocked if they get by the first round.

 

[KingSpeed]

Butler was an all-star 3 years prior... Should the Lakers be playing better since they have 3 all-stars (Deng, Lopez, Thomas)?

In 29 games during the year, Caron Butler was averaging 15ppg, 4rpg, and 1.6apg, on a non-efficient 52TS%. Not all-star numbers at all. And he was a worse defender than Chandler, Kidd, Marion, Stevenson, etc.

For reference, Jason Terry averaged more points per game, on better efficiency, with more assists.
Tyson Chandler was a top 3 defensive center in the league.
Jason Kidd was a very good defender who got almost 8apg.
Shawn Marion got 12.5ppg on better effiency with better rebounding and great defense

Caron Butler was the 6th best player on that team.

You make some good points but Butler WAS their second best player when he went down. He was hitting game winning shots and was the second option in the starting lineup. That you don't remember that doesn't make it not true.

 

[KingSpeed]

Afterwards that. Because every team will have a lull and it's false to claim that we were going to continue playing that poorly if Wes remained healthy.

I didn't say they would continue to play poorly but the 6-11 stretch was awful and it happened with a healthy Wes and it all but cost us the 1 seed.