The race for Home Court Advantage

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honkicracker said:
Literally throwing shit on a wall and hoping it sticks.

5 game win streak, 6 game loss streak are both small sample sizes.

Literally impossible to talk to someone who has admitted they can't be objective.
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Make up YOUR mind. Is a 5-6 game sample small or not??
 
BonesJones said:
Butler in 2010-2011 (Played up until the 1st game in Jan, when he got hurt):
15ppg
Jason Terry splits in 2010-2011
OCT: 16.7ppg
NOV: 15.9
DEC: 15.0

So how the fuck was Butler their 2nd option? For a dude that's acting like he was a Mavs superfan at the time, the stats COMPLETELY disagree with you.
Click to expand...

Why you bringing up stats bro? You were too young, go back to school.
Enjoy getting dismissed because of your age.
Reminds me of something else going on in the world currently.
 
KingSpeed said:
You guys are hypocrites because you say that 5 game win streak isn't small sample size. Then you dismiss Mavs 6 straight blowout losses. Instead of owning that you're a hypocrite, you turn it back around on me. Make up your mind.
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How the hell dismissed it? It was an adjusting period that they would've had if any of their top 6 players went down. I'm saying they struggled without him initially but that doesn't prove anything, as it would've been the same for any of their key players. That doesn't make him their 2nd best players.

Blazers were playing great over their 5 game winner streak after a lull in which they lost a lot of close games to great teams. They were still 3rd in the West when Wes went down...
 
honkicracker said:
Why you bringing up stats bro? You were too young, go back to school.
Enjoy getting dismissed because of your age.
Reminds me of something else going on in the world currently.
Click to expand...
Happens so much man... So I just bring up facts and laugh when they don't know how to reply, so they continue dismissing me because I was "too young".
 
BonesJones said:
Butler in 2010-2011 (Played up until the 1st game in Jan, when he got hurt):
15ppg
Jason Terry splits in 2010-2011
OCT: 16.7ppg
NOV: 15.9
DEC: 15.0

So how the fuck was Butler their 2nd option? For a dude that's acting like he was a Mavs superfan at the time, the stats COMPLETELY disagree with you.
Click to expand...
Look at your own numbers. Terry's numbers dropped while Butler's got bigger. Also Terry was a bench player. Butler was second option in the starting lineup. He got hurt and then they got blown out 6 straight times. These are facts. Why do you insist on denying them? Why can't we agree? Even if you think Butler was Dallas' third best player, then what was our excuse?? Wes was no better than our third best. Dallas wins a title. We roll over and play dead.
 
KingSpeed said:
He was their second highest scorer in their starting lineup. The point is that they were still able to win the championship and we should've been able to win a ROUND after losing Wes. We still had two All Stars. Dallas only had one All Star that year (Dirk) and won the title.
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Oh, so now you've backed off from "he was their 2nd option" to "he was their second highest scorer in their starting lineup" Lmao.

They were able to win the championship because they had great all-around players that were better overall players than Butler. You're trying to say that Butler was their 2nd best player (he wasn't even their 2nd best scorer), when all Butler could do was score, and couldn't even do it efficiently. Does defense not matter? Did Tyson Chandler's rim protection not help them greatly?

Wes was a much better player than Butler. He scored more, did it more efficiently, and was a much better player on the defensive end. He was also the heart and soul of our team.
 
KingSpeed said:
Everything I have brought up is a fact.
Click to expand...
No it's not. You said Butler was their 2nd option, when in fact, he's not, and was proven by the stats that I brought to the argument.
 
I wonder if it can be bumped. @PtldPlatypus I can't find the thread.
Can you bump the thread of people arguing Wes > Thompson
 
BonesJones said:
Oh, so now you've backed off from "he was their 2nd option" to "he was their second highest scorer in their starting lineup" Lmao.

They were able to win the championship because they had great all-around players that were better overall players than Butler. You're trying to say that Butler was their 2nd best player (he wasn't even their 2nd best scorer), when all Butler could do was score, and couldn't even do it efficiently. Does defense not matter? Did Tyson Chandler's rim protection not help them greatly?

Wes was a much better player than Butler. He scored more, did it more efficiently, and was a much better player on the defensive end. He was also the heart and soul of our team.
Click to expand...

Caron Butler was their defensive stopper. Like Wes.

https://dc.sbnation.com/washington-...ks-win-2011-nba-champions-caron-butler-injury
 
KingSpeed said:
Look at your own numbers. Terry's numbers dropped while Butler's got bigger. Also Terry was a bench player. Butler was second option in the starting lineup. He got hurt and then they got blown out 6 straight times. These are facts. Why do you insist on denying them? Why can't we agree? Even if you think Butler was Dallas' third best player, then what was our excuse?? Wes was no better than our third best. Dallas wins a title. We roll over and play dead.
Click to expand...
Jason Terry was a bench player. SO WHAT? He played more minutes per game than Caron did. He scored more. How was Jason Terry not the 2nd option overall?

I haven't been denying what you claim I am:

Butler was the 2nd option in the starting lineup.
They had an adjusting period due to losing a starter with which they lost 6 games (which would've happened if they lost any of their starters).
Butler was Dallas' 6th best player, if you take into account more than just scoring (like defense, intangibles, playmaking, etc.)
Wes was better than Butler in many ways. Wes would've probably been Dallas' 3rd best player.

We also lost Wes late in the season while Dallas lost Caron at the start of January. It's also known that LaMarcus quit. Afflalo's shoulder started flaring up. Wes was also our defensive identity and the heart and soul of our team.
 
BonesJones said:
Jason Terry was a bench player. SO WHAT? He played more minutes per game than Caron did. He scored more. How was Jason Terry not the 2nd option overall?

I haven't been denying what you claim I am:

Butler was the 2nd option in the starting lineup.
They had an adjusting period due to losing a starter with which they lost 6 games (which would've happened if they lost any of their starters).
Butler was Dallas' 6th best player, if you take into account more than just scoring (like defense, intangibles, playmaking, etc.)
Wes was better than Butler in many ways. Wes would've probably been Dallas' 3rd best player.

We also lost Wes late in the season while Dallas lost Caron at the start of January. It's also known that LaMarcus quit. Afflalo's shoulder started flaring up. Wes was also our defensive identity and the heart and soul of our team.
Click to expand...
Has it occurred to you that Terry's offense went UP because Butler got HURT? Also- yes, LaMarcus quit. That is my fucking point! We should have been able to win a series without Wes. But everybody but CJ and Meyers quit. Maybe not Dame so much but Aldridge and Batum were awful.
 
BonesJones ignoring the truth that Butler was a great defensive player. Talking about stuff he knows nothing about.
 
KingSpeed said:
Has it occurred to you that Terry's offense went UP because Butler got HURT? Also- yes, LaMarcus quit. That is my fucking point! We should have been able to win a series without Wes. But everybody but CJ and Meyers quit. Maybe not Dame so much but Aldridge and Batum were awful.
Click to expand...
I gave you Terry's splits from PLAYING WITH BUTLER (October through December) and they were higher than Butler's. Pay attention.

We shouldn't have been able to win a series without Wes. He was a HUGE loss, a much bigger loss than losing Butler, and we didn't have the great role players to cover that loss like Dallas did.
 
BonesJones said:
Lol, yeah, the undersized SF was a better defender than Shawn Marion.

You really think he was anywhere near as good of a defender as Chandler, Kidd, or Marion at the time?
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When have I EVER said those players weren't good. They were awesome. That's why they won the title in Butler's absence. But they were all past their prime and Butler was a big loss they had to withstand. Aldridge, Dame, Batum, Meyers nd CJ should've been enough to win a playoff series.
 
Jesus God Almighty....... how have you people allowed this 3rd grader to take this forum over the way he has. The whole, “I know you are but what am I”......”my dad could beat up your dad” routine is just so tired. #64Wins
 
KingSpeed said:
BonesJones ignoring the truth that Butler was a great defensive player. Talking about stuff he knows nothing about.
Click to expand...
Butler was a great defensive player?! Lmao. Negative DBPM for his career.

2010-2011 DBPM:
Butler: 0.0
Marion: 1.8
Kidd: 2.1
Chandler: 1.7
 
BonesJones said:
I gave you Terry's splits from PLAYING WITH BUTLER (October through December) and they were higher than Butler's. Pay attention.
Okay. I concede that point.

We shouldn't have been able to win a series without Wes. He was a HUGE loss, a much bigger loss than losing Butler, and we didn't have the great role players to cover that loss like Dallas did.
Click to expand...

We had more than enough role players. Batum, CJ, Meyers should've been enough. And we had two All Stars that season. Dallas had one.
Click to expand...
 
Look, I'm enjoying the debate, and I'm leaning towards Bones on it, but for anyone to say that Tuff Juice wasn't a premier defender is, um, not plausible.

That is all. Carry on.
 
KingSpeed said:
When have I EVER said those players weren't good. They were awesome. That's why they won the title in Butler's absence. But they were all past their prime and Butler was a big loss they had to withstand. Aldridge, Dame, Batum, Meyers nd CJ should've been enough to win a playoff series.
Click to expand...
They're BETTER than Butler.

We didn't have as good of a team as them. You lumped in Meyers as a reason we should've been able to win a playoff series? Seriously? Lmao....
 
BonesJones said:
Butler was a great defensive player?! Lmao. Negative DBPM for his career.

2010-2011 DBPM:
Butler: 0.0
Marion: 1.8
Kidd: 2.1
Chandler: 1.7
Click to expand...
Those numbers are misleading. Individual defense can't be measured accurately with stats. You've made your case now and I've made mine which is that we should have won a playoff series without Wes. I'm done on the subject and if you have anything else to say, I will read it.
 
Dallas also had Dirk playing at an MVP level. Defense doesn't earn ASG appearances, but Dallas' defense was also insanely great. So using "2 all-stars to 1!" isn't a valid argument in terms of the production of a basketball team.
 
BonesJones said:
They're BETTER than Butler.

We didn't have as good of a team as them. You lumped in Meyers as a reason we should've been able to win a playoff series? Seriously? Lmao....
Click to expand...
He was the third best player on our team in that series. Sad but true.
 
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