The scary/nervous part about how the Blazers improve

[blue9]

Again, I go back to his rookie year when Meyers played more like a "real" center. His average FG distance was 8.2 ft., compared to 18.8 feet this year. His rookie year, nearly half his FGA were from 0 - 3 feet from the basket and he shot .696 FG% on those shots. That's a low post scoring threat. He did that as a clueless 20-year old rookie. Why can't he do that now? This year, he is shooting .708 FG% from 0 - 3 feet. The problem is, unlike his rookie season where nearly 1/2 of his shots were in that 0 - 3 feet range, now 1/9 are.

His rookie year, he earned the reputation for having a soft shooting touch IN THE LOW POST. Just because he has extended his range out to the 3-point line doesn't mean he should totally abandon the rest of his game.

BNM

Coaching. If Tater Totts wanted Meyers working around the hoop he would be. But Totts clearly wants Meyers 23' away from the hoop.

 

[blue9]

Then part of it is also on Olshey for not filling our roster with better 3-point shooters. His big off season acquisitions the last two summers: Al-Faroug Aminu, Ed Davis, Mason Plumlee, and Evan Turner. Not a decent 3-point shooter among them.

I get that we also need bigs on the roster, but because he has not done a good job acquiring decent 3-point shooters, he has forced Stotts to convert the biggest player on our roster into a spot up 3-point shooting specialist.

Again, go back and look at Meyers Leonard's rookie stats. In spite of increased playing time, Meyers has not come close to matching his rookie BLK and dunk numbers. As a rookie he shot 48.7% of his shots within 3-feet of the basket and only 2.5% of them from 3-point range. Now he shoots 11% of his shots from within 3 feet and 56.9% of them from 3-point range. He also shot over twice as many FTs as a rookie as he has in any season since - because low post players get fouled more than 3-point specialists.

The lack of other 3-point shooters on this roster has forced Meyers Leonard's game to move further and further from the basket. It's ironic that that our biggest needs are now rim protection, low post scoring and rebounding when we had the makings of that in a 20-year old rookie and chose to piss it away to make up for the poor 3-point shooting of the rest of our roster.

BNM

I'm sorry, but I have to call bullshit on this. If Tater Totts can't change his overly simplistic offense to (a) play to his players' strengths, and (b) get some higher percentage shots, then he doesn't deserve to be the head coach of an NBA team.

Yes, Olshey has put together a flawed roster. But Tater needs to be able to adapt to his roster, rather than trying to make his players play roles they're not well suited for. That's all he's ever done since the day he got here.

 

[Trackjack]

Coaching. If Tater Totts wanted Meyers working around the hoop he would be. But Totts clearly wants Meyers 23' away from the hoop.

That been his mistake as a coach with ML.

 

[Blazer4ever]

It's not the offense, it's the lineups. Stotts lets them play, the players make the decisions. The question mark I have with Stotts is putting the right players on the court in the right situations.
The talk about Meyers and Vonleh got me thinking, they maybe our PF rotation but then you have Aminu. You have Crabbe and Turner at SF but also Harkless. We're too deep in several positions and aren't deep enough at the guard positions where we use Crabbe or Turner out of position. I think a consolidation trade would go a long way towards maximizing our abilities

 

[BBert]

Again, I go back to his rookie year when Meyers played more like a "real" center. His average FG distance was 8.2 ft., compared to 18.8 feet this year. His rookie year, nearly half his FGA were from 0 - 3 feet from the basket and he shot .696 FG% on those shots. That's a low post scoring threat. He did that as a clueless 20-year old rookie. Why can't he do that now? This year, he is shooting .708 FG% from 0 - 3 feet. The problem is, unlike his rookie season where nearly 1/2 of his shots were in that 0 - 3 feet range, now 1/9 are.

His rookie year, he earned the reputation for having a soft shooting touch IN THE LOW POST. Just because he has extended his range out to the 3-point line doesn't mean he should totally abandon the rest of his game.

BNM

Preach.

WTF is wrong with the Blazers coaching staff? They have wasted three years of Meyers' career by not grooming him to play around the basket.

This is starting to piss me off.

 

[BBert]

Coaching. If Tater Totts wanted Meyers working around the hoop he would be. But Totts clearly wants Meyers 23' away from the hoop.

Exactly. For all the hate Meyers gets here, I blame the coaches 100%.

 

[Scalma]

Might want to look into Leonards comments about transitioning away from the basket before railing the coaching staff. In short, he's playing exactly the way he wants to be.

 

[BBert]

Might want to look into Leonards comments about transitioning away from the basket before railing the coaching staff. In short, he's playing exactly the way he wants to be.

It shouldn't be his choice. That's what coaches are for.

Also, there is no reason Meyers working on his three point shot after practice would have detracted from his job of playing center. He can practice whatever he wants, after practice. And adding the three point shot to his skill set was most definitely a good thing. It's the coaches who are responsible for making it the ONLY thing. And that's a bad thing.

 

[Minstrel]

I don't blame Stotts for encouraging Leonard's outside game. A big who has range pulls an opposing big out of the paint and out onto the perimeter where most bigs are pretty uncomfortable, defensively. Leonard, so far, has simply not proven capable of quick release threes against modest challenges or the ability to put the ball on the floor to blow past close-outs. They could give up on the exercise, but considering he showed he had long-range shooting ability, it was definitely the right decision to try to turn him into a gunner rather than a low-post player, in my opinion.

And his defensive inadequacy has nothing to do with whether he plays in the post or on the perimeter offensively.

 

[Scalma]

A coaches job is to put his players in the best position to succeed. Can't force a guy to become something he's not. What about Leonards temperament makes anyone believe he could've turned into a low post banger I mean come on.

 

[TBpup]

A coaches job is to put his players in the best position to succeed. Can't force a guy to become something he's not. What about Leonards temperament makes anyone believe he could've turned into a low post banger I mean come on.

I don't know about low-post banger but he was much better at scoring down low when he came into the league. It has declined every season since to where he is in the top 2% in the league in terms of taking perimeter shots. It wasn't always that way. Because Stotts system.

 

[BBert]

A coaches job is to put his players in the best position to succeed. Can't force a guy to become something he's not. What about Leonards temperament makes anyone believe he could've turned into a low post banger I mean come on.

Just my opinion, but I thought his rookie and sophomore seasons showed he could be developed to play around the basket and key area, on offense and defense. But since that was completely abandoned in favor of setting screens above the three point line, then camping out there, we'll never know for sure.

 

[blue9]

And his defensive inadequacy has nothing to do with whether he plays in the post or on the perimeter offensively.

Wrong-o! Meyers is fine playing defense in the post - he sucks on the perimeter. But throughout his career Totts has put him in as a stretch-4, guarding more perimeter-oriented players. He had him guarding Paul Pierce for fuck's sake! I don't care how much Pierce has slowed with age, any numbskull should know that he still has the ability to work Meyers.

 

[blue9]

Just my opinion, but I thought his rookie and sophomore seasons showed he could be developed to play around the basket and key area, on offense and defense. But since that was completely abandoned in favor of setting screens above the three point line, then camping out there, we'll never know for sure.

Meyers was never afraid of contact like some bitchmade Texan that use to be on the team. He use to love throwing his body around recklessly, tangling up with other guys, and throwing them to the floor. It wasn't exactly good defense, or even basketball, but it showed that he relished hitting guys. But that Meyers has all but disappeared.

 

[BBert]

Meyers was never afraid of contact like some bitchmade Texan that use to be on the team. He use to love throwing his body around recklessly, tangling up with other guys, and throwing them to the floor. It wasn't exactly good defense, or even basketball, but it showed that he relished hitting guys. But that Meyers has all but disappeared.

Hence the 'LaimBeibs' nickname.

 

[Minstrel]

Wrong-o! Meyers is fine playing defense in the post - he sucks on the perimeter.

He's not a good low post defender, he's just less bad. It's not even that he's worse on the perimeter--he has the athleticism to slide his feet. His problem is making decisions in space--i.e. pick-and-roll defense. So, yes, he's involved in fewer of them when playing center, but teams will still use their centers in pick-and-rolls and then Meyers is just as much trouble.

That said, this is all still irrelevant. Just because you play on the perimeter offensively doesn't mean you have to guard a perimeter player on defense. The main problem for Leonard defensively is that he's a terrible pick-and-roll defender and, in general, terrible at all facets of team defense in an increasingly movement-oriented, pick-and-roll league. You can try your best to hide him against an immobile center who can't play in the pick-and-roll, but those types of centers are becoming rarer and rarer.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

Preach.

WTF is wrong with the Blazers coaching staff? They have wasted three years of Meyers' career by not grooming him to play around the basket.

This is starting to piss me off.

You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it not step back and try spitting in it.

 

[blue9]

He's not a good low post defender, he's just less bad. It's not even that he's worse on the perimeter--he has the athleticism to slide his feet. His problem is making decisions in space--i.e. pick-and-roll defense. So, yes, he's involved in fewer of them when playing center, but teams will still use their centers in pick-and-rolls and then Meyers is just as much trouble.

That said, this is all still irrelevant. Just because you play on the perimeter offensively doesn't mean you have to guard a perimeter player on defense. The main problem for Leonard defensively is that he's a terrible pick-and-roll defender and, in general, terrible at all facets of team defense in an increasingly movement-oriented, pick-and-roll league. You can try your best to hide him against an immobile center who can't play in the pick-and-roll, but those types of centers are becoming rarer and rarer.

Again, a lot of this is the damn coach's scheme and assignments. Meyers didn't choose to defend Pierce - that's who Tater Totts assigned him to guard! And while Meyers may not be a good P/R defender, he could be A LOT LESS BAD if Tater Totts didn't call for a switch every damn time a pick was set (thankfully we've seen a little progress here!). Finally, picking Meyers out as being "terrible at all facets of team defense" is disingenuous when our entire team/scheme hasn't shown any ability to play team defense - there is no 5-men-playing-as-one on defense or offense with this team.

 

[Minstrel]

Again, a lot of this is the damn coach's scheme and assignments. Meyers didn't choose to defend Pierce - that's who Tater Totts assigned him to guard! And while Meyers may not be a good P/R defender, he could be A LOT LESS BAD if Tater Totts didn't call for a switch every damn time a pick was set (thankfully we've seen a little progress here!).

And we've seen the results of the Blazers not switching everything--people bitching in the game threads about how guys like Lillard and McCollum die on every screen, leaving wide open shooters. You keep refusing to accept that Stotts has his hands tied--switch everything and you get ugly mismatches. Don't switch everything and you have players being defeated by screens because they don't have the awareness to see them coming and get around them, leading to wide open shots. It's easy to criticize what the existing scheme is giving up and insist that there's some magic scheme that will make this group of terrible defenders look good, but the reality is that with a group of terrible defenders, every scheme is just a question of what negative outcome you want to give up.

Finally, picking Meyers out as being "terrible at all facets of team defense" is disingenuous when our entire team/scheme hasn't shown any ability to play team defense - there is no 5-men-playing-as-one on defense or offense with this team.

Yes--mostly because there aren't five players on this team capable of that. One of those bad defenders is Leonard. I'm not remotely suggesting he's the only one (that should be pretty obvious from all my posts about the Blazers' defense) but Leonard is the guy we're discussing right now.

 

[blue9]

There are other options besides switching or not switching. The best option, IMO, is to jump and recover. I doubt Meyers would be terribly good at this given his slow foot speed (although I recall Frye being quite decent at it). Aminu and Harkless both certainly have the lateral quickness to execute this. I'm sure Plumlee would be at least average at it. I'm sure Vonleh would be great at it. But it's about positioning, awareness, and 5 guys acting as a cohesive defensive unit, rather than 5 individuals. It doesn't take excellent individual defenders, it just takes practice and discipline.

 

[Minstrel]

There are other options besides switching or not switching.

Yes, there are variations (like hedging, which I assume is what you mean by "jump and recover") which is a variation on not switching, but every scheme requires this:

But it's about positioning, awareness, and 5 guys acting as a cohesive defensive unit, rather than 5 individuals.

You say that it doesn't take excellent defenders, but it's a fallacy that "positioning, awareness and 5 guys acting cohesively" only requires practice, effort and discipline. Every team tries, practices and has discipline--at the NBA level, it's incredibly rare to actually be "poorly coached" or to have players who don't try. At this level, it's the players who process what's happening the fastest and instinctively make the right decisions in real time who succeed. You've previously scoffed at the idea that NBA actions moves fast, but coaches, players and analysts all say that the NBA game is incredibly fast and difficult to process in real time. Even smart coaches and analysts often have to watch plays over and over to really understand what happened and what players should have done. Players actually doing it have to do it on the first take, without an overhead camera view.

Saying that defense is just about practice, discipline and/or effort is akin to saying that passing is just about practice, discipline and/or effort. Sure, making the easy, obvious pass is just about learning and discipline, just like making one easy and obvious defensive rotation. Making a pass through traffic to set up an action three passes away takes vision and innate talent, just as making a rotation with the awareness that the current action is just a feint to set up a second or third action takes innate talent. Playing modern, on-a-string defense requires five guys with good innate defensive awareness. We have about three such players in Turner, Harkless and Aminu.

 

[blue9]

Check out this video. Notice most of the ICE examples are of the Blazers. Also notice, despite the misses, that they generally generate better shots than the other examples in the video. ICE is fine to use as part of your defensive scheme, but it's literally designed to create a passing lane from the ball-handler to the screener for an open mid-range shot. I understand that that's the least effective shot in the game - and it's a large reason I hated Aldridge. But at this level it's stupid to consistently give up a mid-range shot to anyone - guys are too good at this level, and if they get comfortable they'll knock them down...and they come into the game comfortable because they know we're going to give them wide open shots from the jump.

 

[blue9]

Yes, there are variations (like hedging, which I assume is what you mean by "jump and recover") which is a variation on not switching, but every scheme requires this:



You say that it doesn't take excellent defenders, but it's a fallacy that "positioning, awareness and 5 guys acting cohesively" only requires practice, effort and discipline. Every team tries, practices and has discipline--at the NBA level, it's incredibly rare to actually be "poorly coached" or to have players who don't try. At this level, it's the players who process what's happening the fastest and instinctively make the right decisions in real time who succeed. You've previously scoffed at the idea that NBA actions moves fast, but coaches, players and analysts all say that the NBA game is incredibly fast and difficult to process in real time. Even smart coaches and analysts often have to watch plays over and over to really understand what happened and what players should have done. Players actually doing it have to do it on the first take, without an overhead camera view.

Saying that defense is just about practice, discipline and/or effort is akin to saying that passing is just about practice, discipline and/or effort. Sure, making the easy, obvious pass is just about learning and discipline, just like making one easy and obvious defensive rotation. Making a pass through traffic to set up an action three passes away takes vision and innate talent, just as making a rotation with the awareness that the current action is just a feint to set up a second or third action takes innate talent. Playing modern, on-a-string defense requires five guys with good innate defensive awareness. We have about three such players in Turner, Harkless and Aminu.

Sure, if you're striving to be one of the best defensive teams in the league you also need players with more individual defensive skill. But there's no reason this roster can't be average...other than the coaching.
Also, I disagree with the statement that every team has discipline and that it's rare to be poorly coached. Mo, Nate, and Terry are horrible, bad, and meh respectively.

 

[Minstrel]

Sure, if you're striving to be one of the best defensive teams in the league you also need players with more individual defensive skill. But there's no reason this roster can't be average...other than the coaching.

Sure there is--they have substandard defensive personnel. By your logic, there's no reason every team shouldn't be at least average. Which isn't logically possible. Every team has reached the "effort/practice/coaching" average. What differentiates teams now is talent. And the Blazers are well below average in that.

And regarding your post about giving up midrange shots--you're still assuming that no defense should ever have to give anything up. That's simply not accurate. Unless you have Spurs or Warriors type personnel, you're going to have to make sacrifices somewhere. The Blazers, far from having elite defensive personnel, have poor defensive personnel. So they have to give up a ton--all you can do with scheme is try to dictate what you're going to give the offense. In that circumstance, I'd also prefer to give up midrange jumpers. Is it ideal to give those up? No. But it's far better to give those up than easy opportunities at the rim or open three-pointers. The Blazers don't have the personnel to lock down every region of the court.

 

[Boob-No-More]

The Blazers don't have the personnel to lock down every region of the court.

Or, any region of the court.

BNM

 

[Nate]

Layman is a promising project...he's skilled. Given some burn he could hoop. Not afraid to bang in the paint either

He'll never get burn with tater totts