The SKINNY.........

[Rick2583]

TEAM......

The Yankees on this current 4 games losing streak have been outscored 25-5

At 8-14 this is the first time in 9 years (2007) that the Yankees have been 6 games under 500

Yesterdays 8-0 loss was the teams 7th straight game of scoring 3 runs or less.

On the season (22 games) the yankees have scored 3 runs or less in 17 of them. And 2 runs or less in 12 of the 22 games.

PITCHING.....

4 of the 5 starters have ERAs over 4. Three of them have ERAs over 5. And two of them have ERAs over 6

HITTING......

Only one regular is hitting over 270 (Castro)
Five of the nine regulars are hitting under 240

Ellsbury (235) is 3 for his last 23
Gardner (254) is 3 for his last 23
Beltran (253) is 4 for his last 25
Teixeira our CLEANUP hitter is batting 224
Rodriquez remains in the middle of the lineup dispite hitting 185
McCann (262) is 3 for his last 19
Gregorius (224) is 1 for his last 18
Headley (150) stays in the lineup despite being 3 for his last 30 with no extra base hits on the season & hasn't driven in a run since the 3rd game of the year.

Castro (The newcomer) is the ONLY bright spot on the team batting 305 & leading the team in RBI with 12.

 

[totus44]

(Y)ou (A)re (N)ot (K)ind (E)vil (E)mpire

 

[yankeesince59]

...it is rumored that Ricky Two Teams also moonlights as the Grim Reaper.

 

[Messiah717]

This is what happens when you finally hit the point of no return with bad contracts and an aging roster. They get a break after the season with the contracts of Beltran and Tex ending. Beyond that they need to eat the final year of Arod's contract because either way you cannot have him back another year at age 41 going on 42. Headley is another awful situation that they're going to have to get rid of and likely retain a good portion of that salary as well. The ultimate albatross of a contract which is going to rank as busts of all time is Ellsbury. This guy is a rapidly deteriorating disaster that's signed at big money for four more seasons. An absolute killer.

 

[Rick2583]

...it is rumored that Ricky Two Teams also moonlights as the Grim Reaper.

Sorry Ron but its really hard to be optimistic with this mess of a team.

 

[yankeesince59]

This is what happens when you finally hit the point of no return with bad contracts and an aging roster. They get a break after the season with the contracts of Beltran and Tex ending. Beyond that they need to eat the final year of Arod's contract because either way you cannot have him back another year at age 41 going on 42. Headley is another awful situation that they're going to have to get rid of and likely retain a good portion of that salary as well. The ultimate albatross of a contract which is going to rank as busts of all time is Ellsbury. This guy is a rapidly deteriorating disaster that's signed at big money for four more seasons. An absolute killer.

...Mess, Tote and I were discussing PEDs and PED testing and IMO that sometimes a player is caught in the net of the testing program, sometimes he doesn't...but there's also sometimes a "spike" in the player's production that can raise red flags too. But once a player has a banner year you know how it goes, as soon as he hits FA status he's gonna get over paid by some team. If he get busted for PEDs so what, he's already got his fat contract...and if he stops taking PEDs he production drops but he still gets his money.


...if you think about it, Ellsbury and Headley both reek of this. One great year, then nothing...of course, no one is forcing mindless GMs to sign them to these idiotic contracts.

 

[yankeesince59]

Sorry Ron but its really hard to be optimistic with this mess of a team.

...I know Rick, I know...just busting your chops...among other things, I was referred to as the "Grim Reaper" recently....that where that came from.

...but hey, watching this team is so hard for us right now, we might as well have some laughs...it sure beats clawing our eyes out after watching the games.

 

[Yankeefan5545]

This is what happens when you finally hit the point of no return with bad contracts and an aging roster. They get a break after the season with the contracts of Beltran and Tex ending. Beyond that they need to eat the final year of Arod's contract because either way you cannot have him back another year at age 41 going on 42. Headley is another awful situation that they're going to have to get rid of and likely retain a good portion of that salary as well. The ultimate albatross of a contract which is going to rank as busts of all time is Ellsbury. This guy is a rapidly deteriorating disaster that's signed at big money for four more seasons. An absolute killer.

I'd like to see A-hole get busted again, end of the line. Headley is constant failure, ditto Gregorius, six or one half dozen flip flopping them in the order. Beltran and especially Ellsbury are where I get livid with rage. Ellsbury played his best for the Bean Eaters last night. All of those people are classic examples of getting huge salaries under false pretenses. Yeah let me put "Bump" in there as well. Don't understand why they didn't let some of those kids play instead of signing duds like Headley and Beltran. Even in the best of times the Yankees couldn't win all of the time but we at least saw genuine effort and had some players we could cheer for.

 

[Rick2583]

All around the league I'm seeing young kids (Story, Conforto & so many others) getting a chance while the Yankees have there kids wasting away.

 

[Messiah717]

The Yankees can be pretty much free of the big contracts soon expect for Ellsbury. There's no understating but a terrible situation that is right now. The guy is awful.

 

[Rick2583]

...Mess, Tote and I were discussing PEDs and PED testing and IMO that sometimes a player is caught in the net of the testing program, sometimes he doesn't...but there's also sometimes a "spike" in the player's production that can raise red flags too. But once a player has a banner year you know how it goes, as soon as he hits FA status he's gonna get over paid by some team. If he get busted for PEDs so what, he's already got his fat contract...and if he stops taking PEDs he production drops but he still gets his money.


...if you think about it, Ellsbury and Headley both reek of this. One great year, then nothing...of course, no one is forcing mindless GMs to sign them to these idiotic contracts.

Jacoby Ellsbury 2011 = 32/105/321 (Red Sox) Where do I start? His previous HR & RBI high was 9 HRs in 2008 & 60 RBI in 2009. Since then his HR & RBI high was been 16 & 70 with the Yankees in 2014. He's also apparently forgotten how to steal a base.

Chase Headley 2012 = 31/115/286 (Padres) Prior HR high was 12 in 2009 & hasn't hit more than 13 since. His highest RBI total prior to his big year was 64 in 2009. Since his big season his high has been 62 which he did last season with the Yankees.

These two guys & there one great season has Brady Anderson written all over it.

 

[totus44]

Ells and Headley did have performance spikes, but to link that to PEDs smacks of recency bias. Fact is those spikes come within the span of current testing regime. You look back in time prior to the alleged ped era and players had spikes all the time. What is different are the drugs of FA and guaranteed contracts.

Oddly players seem to step up performances in "contract years". But I think there are simpler human reasons other than PEDs. Look baseball needs to step back and analyze the financial ROI from these contracts. But getting that fiscal genie back in the bottle?

Accountability it seems has no place in baseball given MLBPA deals and the de facto profit sharing schemes implied in financial contracts.

 

[Rick2583]

Ells and Headley did have performance spikes, but to link that to PEDs smacks of recency bias. Fact is those spikes come within the span of current testing regime. You look back in time prior to the alleged ped era and players had spikes all the time. What is different are the drugs of FA and guaranteed contracts.

Oddly players seem to step up performances in "contract years". But I think there are simpler human reasons other than PEDs. Look baseball needs to step back and analyze the financial ROI from these contracts. But getting that fiscal genie back in the bottle?

Accountability it seems has no place in baseball given MLBPA deals and the de facto profit sharing schemes implied in financial contracts.

Tom I hear you but we're not talking about going from 10 HRs to 15-20 HRs or going from 50 RBI to 60-65 RBI. Some of these spikes are drastic.

 

[totus44]

Tom I hear you but we're not talking about going from 10 HRs to 15-20 HRs or going from 50 RBI to 60-65 RBI. Some of these spikes are drastic.

Again these are statically variances. We cannot jump to conclusions. Otherwise your saying that the testing is suspect and inaccurate and therefore that assertion goes both ways.

Care to explain for example Therman Munson 1972 vs 1973?

 

[Mattingly23NY]

TEAM......

The Yankees on this current 4 games losing streak have been outscored 25-5

At 8-14 this is the first time in 9 years (2007) that the Yankees have been 6 games under 500

Yesterdays 8-0 loss was the teams 7th straight game of scoring 3 runs or less.

On the season (22 games) the yankees have scored 3 runs or less in 17 of them. And 2 runs or less in 12 of the 22 games.

PITCHING.....

4 of the 5 starters have ERAs over 4. Three of them have ERAs over 5. And two of them have ERAs over 6

HITTING......

Only one regular is hitting over 270 (Castro)
Five of the nine regulars are hitting under 240

Ellsbury (235) is 3 for his last 23
Gardner (254) is 3 for his last 23
Beltran (253) is 4 for his last 25
Teixeira our CLEANUP hitter is batting 224
Rodriquez remains in the middle of the lineup dispite hitting 185
McCann (262) is 3 for his last 19
Gregorius (224) is 1 for his last 18
Headley (150) stays in the lineup despite being 3 for his last 30 with no extra base hits on the season & hasn't driven in a run since the 3rd game of the year.

Castro (The newcomer) is the ONLY bright spot on the team batting 305 & leading the team in RBI with 12.

If it makes anyone feel any better, the Bums are hitting < .100 with RISP....with the most bloated ridiculous payroll in MLB....jest sayin'...

 

[Mattingly23NY]

Care to explain for example Therman Munson 1972 vs 1973?

The pay raise, enabled Thurman to buy better spirits, hot dogs too....
after all that was the Team that Ruth built, .....

I mean King George...

 

[yankeesince59]

Ells and Headley did have performance spikes, but to link that to PEDs smacks of recency bias.

..."bias"?...oh please...no, in the PED era it smacks of common sense.

...you keep complaining about the PEDs testing program but as I've said it beats not having one at all. Besides, a first time violation is not a death penalty for the player and if he gets caught again he's given a stiffer penalty, and so on.

...the court system is not perfect either and there are errors made every now and then and that's unfortunate but it is no reason to condemn the whole court/judicial system...hell, if we took that approach.we might as well abolish all laws and open the doors to the jails and penitentiaries.





Sorry Tote, but again, I don't get your angle here....I think it's a bit over the top.

 

[Rick2583]

You're the voice of reason & yes one can't always assume that its due to PEDs. After all........................

Lou Gehrig went from 16 HRs in 1926 to 47 HRs in 1927
Ralph Kiner went from 23 HRs in 1946 to 51 HRs in 1947
Carl Yazstremski went from 16 HRs in 1966 to 44 HRs in 1967
Jimmie Foxx jumped from 30 HRs in 1931 to 58 HRs in 1932
Ernie Banks went from 19 HRs in 1954 to 44 HRs in 1955
Orlando Cepeda went from 24 HRs in 1960 to 46 HRs in 1961

The above are just a few examples but there are many more. Hell even the great Babe Ruth went from 29 HRs in 1919 to 54 HRs in 1920

On the flip side there are always the one's (aside from the obvious Sosa, McGwire, Bonds etc.) that come under suspicion like...............

Brady Anderson went from 16 HRs in 1995 to 50 HRs in 1996
Kevin Mitchell went from 19 HRs in 1988 to 47 HRs
Kirby Puckett went from 4 HRs in 1985 to 31 HRs in 1986
Luis Gonzalez went from 31 HRs in 2000 to 57 HRs in 2001
Adrian Beltre went from 20 HRs in 2003 to 48 HRs in 2004
Shawn Green went from 24 HRs in 2000 to 49 HRs in 2001

There are many more in this above group also & honestly I'm on the fence with Headly & Ellsbury.

 

[yankeesince59]

Again these are statically variances. We cannot jump to conclusions. Otherwise your saying that the testing is suspect and inaccurate and therefore that assertion goes both ways.

Care to explain for example Therman Munson 1972 vs 1973?

...it's Thurman...and we're talking about the PEDs era...care to explain Bonds, Sosa, Mac, Anderson, et al?

...and no one said that performance spikes were the only barometer....so there's no reason to take it that way,

 

[totus44]

..."bias"?...oh please...no, in the PED era it smacks of common sense.

...you keep complaining about the PEDs testing program but as I've said it beats not having one at all. Besides, a first time violation is not a death penalty for the player and if he gets caught again he's given a stiffer penalty, and so on.

...the court system is not perfect either and there are errors made every now and then and that's unfortunate but it is no reason to condemn the whole court/judicial system...hell, if we took that approach.we might as well abolish all laws and open the doors to the jails and penitentiaries.





Sorry Tote, but again, I don't get your angle here....I think it's a bit over the top.

Over the top? Respectively disagree. If you want to allege statistical spikes in performance is rooted in unnatural enhancements, fine. Show me scientific proof that can be verified, for each specific instance.

 

[totus44]

...it's Thurman...and we're talking about the PEDs era...care to explain Bonds, Sosa, Mac, Anderson, et al?

...and no one said that performance spikes were the only barometer....so there's no reason to take it that way,

Sorry but Rick cited 5-10HR and 10-15 RBI spikes as questionable.

So I went to find an example of a famous player from the so called pre-PED era. Wasn't that hard, these output swings are common.

My point is simple, this ped witch hunt is ridiculous, and you guys need to step back and be more rational.

And I said "recency bias".... If your unfamiliar with that phrase it speaks to how you guys an misinterpreting data.

 

[totus44]

...it's Thurman...and we're talking about the PEDs era...care to explain Bonds, Sosa, Mac, Anderson, et al?

...and no one said that performance spikes were the only barometer....so there's no reason to take it that way,

Again, I said look back before PED era...let's be clearer than, say pre 1980?

 

[Rick2583]

These are really the kinds of threads I enjoy.

 

[Mattingly23NY]

...Mess, Tote and I were discussing PEDs and PED testing and IMO that sometimes a player is caught in the net of the testing program, sometimes he doesn't...but there's also sometimes a "spike" in the player's production that can raise red flags too. But once a player has a banner year you know how it goes, as soon as he hits FA status he's gonna get over paid by some team. If he get busted for PEDs so what, he's already got his fat contract...and if he stops taking PEDs he production drops but he still gets his money.


...if you think about it, Ellsbury and Headley both reek of this. One great year, then nothing...of course, no one is forcing mindless GMs to sign them to these idiotic contracts.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sport...steroids-incentive-contract-marlins/83700248/



after listening and reading the ridicule, Gordon’s confidant made the call to USA TODAY Sports.

“Why wouldn’t he do it?’’ said the friend, who requested anonymity due to the sensitive nature of the topic. “Think about it, why wouldn’t Dee take that chance? Why wouldn’t anyone?

“So he got caught. So what? It was better than spending his career in the minors. His image may be shot, but he’s still has got his $50 million in the bank and can take care of his family for the rest of his life.

“So really, when you think about it, it’s worth it.’’

 

[totus44]

Oh and in addition to recency bias, you are also committing confirmation bias too. Didn't want to make this into something larger, but I did realize using Munson as an example would expose the extreme emotional self-validation these biases possess.

I've said my piece, I have no further points to make and won't revisit this thread.

 

[yankeesince59]

Over the top? Respectively disagree. If you want to allege statistical spikes in performance is rooted in unnatural enhancements, fine. Show me scientific proof that can be verified, for each specific instance.

...Jesus...again...that is not what I said...read again.


...and the "scientific proof" you are seeking can be found in the PEDs testing program. Show me scientific proof that any of the players who have tested positive for PEDs use were wrongly accused.

...sorry, you can't have it both ways.

 

[yankeesince59]

Oh and in addition to recency bias, you are also committing confirmation bias too. Didn't want to make this into something larger, but I did realize using Munson as an example would expose the extreme emotional self-validation these biases possess.

I've said my piece, I have no further points to make and won't revisit this thread.

...well alrighty then !...you can spin it all you want and you can choose to post or not, that's up to you...but there's nothing "emotional" about this.

 

[Messiah717]

Who cares what they did or didn't take. They suck.