The small markets are doomed

[ripcityboy]

Isnt Cleveland Cavs a small market? Well there you go. They can compete. In the NFL isn't the Packers?

Yeah. Last time I checked Green Bay wasn't exactly the height of appeal. I think it has to do with the system of rules and checks and balances in the league. Right now the NBA is just one fly by night place.

 

[TBpup]

Just wait. It's possible Westbrook AND PG could leave for the Lakers next season. OKC could get jilted out of franchise players twice in 2 years. Utah will be hard pressed to replace Hayward with anything close to him. Same with OKC replacing Durant. Portland hasn't had a PF since Aldridge left either. Yet larger market teams if they are any good at all can just suck them up seemingly time after time.

It sucks for small market fans but it isn't anything the owners or GMs can really do anything about. There really should be compensatory picks like in baseball at the very least.

 

[Schilly]

Market size and demographic is completely irrelevant at this point in time. In the old days a $100k animal endoresrment from a local company was a big deal because guys were making $1mil now days the regular annual contract is so high the local endorsement deals don't meen shit except to the end of the bench guys. At this point nobody is flocking to LA, Dallas, New York, Chicago , San Francisco etc. due to market size it's all about success on the floor.

The biggest evidence is Brooklyn and New York which is the largest market I. The US and they can't sign shit...we are talking about the Mecca of basketball and what do they have in terms of free agents?

Golden State and San Antonio have been the 2 largest draws to free agents of late but their draw is their success which is really home grown for both franchises.. not to sound too cliche but the old adage of "if you build it they will come" has more influence than the size of the market.

 

[BlazerDuckSeahawkFan94]

Isnt Cleveland Cavs a small market? Well there you go. They can compete. In the NFL isn't the Packers?

They have LeBron James and three professional sports teams, that's not a small market imo

 

[Phatguysrule]

The message is clear, trade your star before they become a UFA. If they don't re-up early, you can't risk your franchise on fickle stars.

Absolutely. If they don't extend with you send them packing. Get what you can and get out.

 

[GDiama]

This is the second summer in a row that a franchise guy ditched their small market team for a big market:

2015: LaMarcus Aldridge (similar market I know, but he left and Portland got nothing but capspace)
2016: Kevin Durant
2017: Gordon Hayward

They all happened on July 4th - announced on the Players Tribune. There's nothing cities like Portland/Salt Lake/etc can do as long as the CBA stays as constructed. These three players in their prime left winning teams.

I don't see how the CBA is to blame. The players should have the right to choose to go wherever they want. They spent already 8 years on one team, so they earned the right to do what they want. The CBA lets the teams owing them offer more money, but it cannot force them to stay on the same franchise for their entire career.

 

[stampedehero]

Hayward was their legit core guy. Now he is in Boston enjoying seafood at the No Name restaurant on the harbor. Utah has a weird segmented population to draw fans from. I never heard of a rap artist sourcing from there.

 

[stampedehero]

Are we truly doomed? NBA Artist's rendering of Portland..

 

[Sarni]

I don't see how the CBA is to blame. The players should have the right to choose to go wherever they want. They spent already 8 years on one team, so they earned the right to do what they want. The CBA lets the teams owing them offer more money, but it cannot force them to stay on the same franchise for their entire career.

Yeah, in its current shape you actually get a great chance to keep the player you drafted for 6-8 years. Even if they want to move after 4 years, you are allowed to match the offer they got from somewhere else (unless they stay another year on QO and then move a year later as UFA as opposed to RFA, but that doesn't make sense financially for them at all).

 

[Sarni]

Just wait. It's possible Westbrook AND PG could leave for the Lakers next season. OKC could get jilted out of franchise players twice in 2 years. Utah will be hard pressed to replace Hayward with anything close to him. Same with OKC replacing Durant. Portland hasn't had a PF since Aldridge left either. Yet larger market teams if they are any good at all can just suck them up seemingly time after time.

It sucks for small market fans but it isn't anything the owners or GMs can really do anything about. There really should be compensatory picks like in baseball at the very least.

Westbrook won't leave $60M or so he will earn extra at Oklahoma by moving to Lakers.

 

[dviss1]

It's white people

Newsflash:

Gordon Hayward is white.

 

[Orion Bailey]

Westbrook won't leave $60M or so he will earn extra at Oklahoma by moving to Lakers.

Why do you say that? Kd did it. Cp3 did it. Lma did it.
Isn't it obvious that joining a Winning team means more than that the money???

 

[tester551]

Westbrook won't leave $60M or so he will earn extra at Oklahoma by moving to Lakers.

Throwing out a number like that is incorrect. You aren't comparing apples to apples.
You're including the 5th year that OKC can offer that the other teams can't. Unless he comes down with a medical issue that requires him to retire - he's going to get another contract after the 4 years.
More than likely the difference between the 5 year contracts will be about $10M. Still a lot of money, but easy to recover with marketing opportunities.

 

[Boob-No-More]

Why do you say that? Kd did it. Cp3 did it. Lma did it.
Isn't it obvious that joining a Winning team means more than that the money???

KD and LMA both left before the current CBA and the veteran designated player exception. In fact, it was created in response to Durant leaving OKC. At the time those guys left, they only left $10 - $20 million to change teams. Because of the DPE, Westbrook could get $70 - $80 million more from OKC than from anyone else. Plus, he would be THE highest paid player in the league. In Westbrook's case, I that no that letters more to him than winning.

Paul has over 10 years experience, so he can get as much from HOU as he would have gotten from LAC

BNM

 

[Blazers Roy]

Don't forget about George, he is leaving a Indiana to eventually become a (dirty) Laker.

 

[Boob-No-More]

Don't forget about George, he is leaving a Indiana to eventually become a (dirty) Laker.

Because he did not make one of the all NBA teams, he was not eligible to sign a DPE super max extension this summer. That ended any hope of him staying in IND.

BNM

 

[Boob-No-More]

Throwing out a number like that is incorrect. You aren't comparing apples to apples.
You're including the 5th year that OKC can offer that the other teams can't. Unless he comes down with a medical issue that requires him to retire - he's going to get another contract after the 4 years.
More than likely the difference between the 5 year contracts will be about $10M. Still a lot of money, but easy to recover with marketing opportunities.

Westbrook is currently eligible to sign a $217 million five year extension with OKC, and supposedly one has been offered. That would give him the largest contract in the NBA - bigger than Steph Curry's $201 million extension. I think that's something that appeals to Westbrook's ego, just like winning the MVP did.

BNM

 

[Boob-No-More]

Can anyone tell me why the league decided to make sign-and-trades almost impossible?

It wasn't a perfect situation, but in years past, when a disgruntled player wanted to force a trade, even if he was a free agent, the two teams worked out some kind of sign-and-trade package where the star got his money and the team losing the star at least got something in return. The team getting the star, usually "won" the trade, but at least the team losing the star wasn't left holding their dicks and nothing else.

Remember when Garnet forced his way to BOS and Carmelo forced his way to the Knicks? In both cases, there were significant assets going to the team losing the star player. Maybe not equal value, but a LOT better than flat out NOTHING which is what we got for Aldridge and UTA got for Hayward.

Even in the case of IND, if a decent sign and trade would have been possible next summer, they would have held onto George and squeezed the Lakers for whatever they could get in return.

So, bring back the good old fashioned sign and trade so teams losing a star player at least have a way to get something of value, even if not equal value, in return.

BNM

 

[BlazerDuckSeahawkFan94]

Can anyone tell me why the league decided to make sign-and-trades almost impossible?

It wasn't a perfect situation, but in years past, when a disgruntled player wanted to force a trade, even if he was a free agent, the two teams worked out some kind of sign-and-trade package where the star got his money and the team losing the star at least got something in return. The team getting the star, usually "won" the trade, but at least the team losing the star wasn't left holding their dicks and nothing else.

Remember when Garnet forced his way to BOS and Carmelo forced his way to the Knicks? In both cases, there were significant assets going to the team losing the star player. Maybe not equal value, but a LOT better than flat out NOTHING which is what we got for Aldridge and UTA got for Hayward.

Even in the case of IND, if a decent sign and trade would have been possible next summer, they would have held onto George and squeezed the Lakers for whatever they could get in return.

So, bring back the good old fashioned sign and trade so teams losing a star player at least have a way to get something of value, even if not equal value, in return.

BNM

This league gives zero fucks about parity

 

[0-Our!]

I feel sorry for UTA, I like that franchise

We like u Mr. Robot BUT... u r not getting any "likes" for ^

 

[Boob-No-More]

This league gives zero fucks about parity

They should. The lack of competitiveness during the playoffs cost everyone, the players, the owners and the TV networks money. All those sweeps meant fewer games, meant less $$$. That's why the cap is so much lower than expected ($99 million, was originally projected to be $108 and was revised downward 4 times).

This an over simplification, but assuming that the lack of parity cost each team $9 million in their share of BRI, that comes out to $9 million x 30 x 2 (50% BRI to the players, 50% to the owners) = $540 million, over half a billion dollars of lost basketball related income for the first year of the new TV deal.

OK, fine. Not all of that lost revenue was likely related to the lack of parity. Maybe only half of it was. That's still a quarter of a billion dollars. Maybe only 1/4 of it was, that's still over $130 million.

At the VERY least, we know the last cap reduction from $101 million to $99 million was directly attributed to the lower than expected revenue during the playoffs. That's still $2 million x 30 x 2 = $120 million. That may not seem like a lot, with players getting $100+ million contracts, but that's just the direct result of revenue lost during the playoffs due to the lack of competitiveness. If some of those 4-game series went 5 or 6 games, they would have met their projections. In a super competitive league where most series go 6 or 7 games, they would make a LOT more.

If they don't care about parity yet, they should start. They just finished the first season of their huge new TV contract and they are already making substantially less than they projected a year ago. This is where that $540 million figure has merit. That's how much less BRI there was in the first year of the contract than was projected a year ago when the deal went into effect. If that continues for 9 more years, no way will their next big TV contract be nearly as lucrative as this one.

BNM

 

[Orion Bailey]

KD and LMA both left before the current CBA and the veteran designated player exception. In fact, it was created in response to Durant leaving OKC. At the time those guys left, they only left $10 - $20 million to change teams. Because of the DPE, Westbrook could get $70 - $80 million more from OKC than from anyone else. Plus, he would be THE highest paid player in the league. In Westbrook's case, I that no that letters more to him than winning.

Paul has over 10 years experience, so he can get as much from HOU as he would have gotten from LAC

BNM

I don't accept the primise though. Everyone says they leave that on the table, but that's only if they retire or have a severe slip in production at the end of the contract. Otherwise, they will be signing another major deal and recoup the bulk of that loss as tester stated earlier. The money is not that big of a deal to these guys compared to winning. $10-$20 mill? They are already making over $100 mill or more....

 

[Boob-No-More]

I don't accept the primise though. Everyone says they leave that on the table, but that's only if they retire or have a severe slip in production at the end of the contract. Otherwise, they will be signing another major deal and recoup the bulk of that loss as tester stated earlier. The money is not that big of a deal to these guys compared to winning. $10-$20 mill? They are already making over $100 mill or more....

The DPE changes that somewhat, especially in Westbrook's case. He can sign a record $217 million extension this summer, and supposedly it's been offered. He gets to the max one year sooner by signing that extension. They basically tear up his existing contract and they give him a new one starting at almost $35 million a year with 8% annual raises for 5 years.

He could keep his current contract, which means he'll lose about $7 million this year, and then opt out next summer. At that point, he will be eligible for the super max anywhere (10 years in the league), but only over 4 years. So, he'd also lose out on the fifth year at nearly $50 million. Yes. he will be able to sign another extension at that point, but he will be 34 years old. Would you be willing to sign a 34-year player whose game is almost 100% dependent on his athleticism a contract starting at $50 million a year?

BNM

 

[KingSpeed]

I don't accept the primise though. Everyone says they leave that on the table, but that's only if they retire or have a severe slip in production at the end of the contract. Otherwise, they will be signing another major deal and recoup the bulk of that loss as tester stated earlier. The money is not that big of a deal to these guys compared to winning. $10-$20 mill? They are already making over $100 mill or more....

That money would mean a lot to me even if I had $100 mill in the bank. And in the case of Westbrook making $60 mill more if he stayed in OKC, would anyone here turn that down? I sure as hell wouldn't.

 

[Sarni]

I don't accept the primise though. Everyone says they leave that on the table, but that's only if they retire or have a severe slip in production at the end of the contract. Otherwise, they will be signing another major deal and recoup the bulk of that loss as tester stated earlier. The money is not that big of a deal to these guys compared to winning. $10-$20 mill? They are already making over $100 mill or more....

I think another year at 29 at maximum contract is a big incentive. You are not that likely to get a $50M deal at 33 or 34 unless there's a situation like last year when the cap goes up by $25M in a year.

 

[STOMP]

How many more people do we have to add to the city to not be considered small market?

Honestly I think Portland could quadruple it's population and still produce crappy TV ratings for nationally televised games. Just because of the way the country was populated there are plenty of West Coast people with East Coast ties and rooting interests, but the same can't be said in reverse. The only way they overcome this sort of obstacle is to have a truly transcendent player who people across the country are fascinated by.

STOMP

 

[SIeepwalker]

The only way they overcome this sort of obstacle is to have a truly transcendent player who people across the country are fascinated by.

Are you trying to give me ideas for the Jusuf Nurkic Fact Thread ?

 

[HomerLovesKoolAid]

Yeah, but we got Meyers to re-sign here.

Too bad we didn't get him to resign here.