The Snowden Rabbit Hole Gets Deeper

[Nikolokolus]

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/sep/11/nsa-americans-personal-data-israel-documents

The National Security Agency routinely shares raw intelligence data with Israel without first sifting it to remove information about US citizens, a top-secret document provided to the Guardian by whistleblower Edward Snowden reveals.

Details of the intelligence-sharing agreement are laid out in a memorandum of understanding between the NSA and its Israeli counterpart that shows the US government handed over intercepted communications likely to contain phone calls and emails of American citizens. The agreement places no legally binding limits on the use of the data by the Israelis.

The disclosure that the NSA agreed to provide raw intelligence data to a foreign country contrasts with assurances from the Obama administration that there are rigorous safeguards to protect the privacy of US citizens caught in the dragnet. The intelligence community calls this process "minimization", but the memorandum makes clear that the information shared with the Israelis would be in its pre-minimized state.

I don't think I'm exactly shocked, but this is pretty egregious.

 

[maxiep]

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/sep/11/nsa-americans-personal-data-israel-documents



I don't think I'm exactly shocked, but this is pretty egregious.

American citizens deserve privacy. If it means we're a little less "safe", it's a tradeoff I'm willing to make. People need to go to jail over this stuff. Enough.

 

[Eastoff]

Well that's a red flag for me.

 

[maxiep]

Well that's a red flag for me.

Imagine how I feel as someone who questions the policies of this Administration on the internet. You don't think the IRS gets forwarded those names? Make no mistake there is a permanent governing class who are intent on keeping their places. It's why President Obama didn't have to tell the IRS to give certain organizations/individuals a harder time; they would do it anyway as a matter of course. People who want limited government aren't just viewed as enemies by this Administration, but by the governing class.

It's A Brave New World.

 

[Eastoff]

Imagine how I feel as someone who questions the policies of this Administration on the internet. You don't think the IRS gets forwarded those names? Make no mistake there is a permanent governing class who are intent on keeping their places. It's why President Obama didn't have to tell the IRS to give certain organizations/individuals a harder time; they would do it anyway as a matter of course. People who want limited government aren't just viewed as enemies by this Administration, but by the governing class.

It's A Brave New World.

I personally think my only options are to grumble about government, or accept that I can only believe politicians will do close to what they say they will do.

 

[maxiep]

I personally think my only options are to grumble about government, or accept that I can only believe politicians will do close to what they say they will do.

Then your avatar is most accurate. You are a well-trained puppy heeling at the foot of your master.

 

[Eastoff]

Then your avatar is most accurate. You are a well-trained puppy heeling at the foot of your master.

man, even my dog isn't that good. =\

 

[Rhal]

And this is what happens when there are no real "checks and balances" to ones power. We saw it happen with the Bush Administration and we see the same thing with the Obama Administration, its nothing new and will continue to happen in then future, if its not in the public eye and goes on behind closed doors then no laws or rights violations are going to stop these backdoor deals that strip us of our basic liberties without our knowledge or consent.
Its scary to think of the world we live in evolving to the point were we have to give up our rights to use electronics that access the internet.

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 2

 

[maxiep]

And this is what happens when there are no real "checks and balances" to ones power. We saw it happen with the Bush Administration and we see the same thing with the Obama Administration, its nothing new and will continue to happen in then future, if its not in the public eye and goes on behind closed doors then no laws or rights violations are going to stop these backdoor deals that strip us of our basic liberties without our knowledge or consent.
Its scary to think of the world we live in evolving to the point were we have to give up our rights to use electronics that access the internet.

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 2

I get accused all the time of being a Republican on this board, and your post is the reason why I am not. In fact, the only party with which I ever registered was the Democratic Party, and that's just when I was young and stupid.

Experience has shown me both parties are corrupt and serve a different master than the people they claim to represent. The only change that will come where we recapture the idea of limited government is a change outside of the two systems. A pox on both their houses I say.

 

[BLAZINGGIANTS]

I get accused all the time of being a Republican on this board, and your post is the reason why I am not. In fact, the only party with which I ever registered was the Democratic Party, and that's just when I was young and stupid.

Experience has shown me both parties are corrupt and serve a different master than the people they claim to represent. The only change that will come where we recapture the idea of limited government is a change outside of the two systems. A pox on both their houses I say.

This. I've had the same experience here. Through everything over the last few administrations, people don't understand when you choose each issue separately, rather than sitting entrenched on one side of the fence or the other.

 

[Natebishop3]

I get accused all the time of being a Republican on this board, and your post is the reason why I am not. In fact, the only party with which I ever registered was the Democratic Party, and that's just when I was young and stupid.

Experience has shown me both parties are corrupt and serve a different master than the people they claim to represent. The only change that will come where we recapture the idea of limited government is a change outside of the two systems. A pox on both their houses I say.

Exactly.

This. I've had the same experience here. Through everything over the last few administrations, people don't understand when you choose each issue separately, rather than sitting entrenched on one side of the fence or the other.

 

[blue9]

I get accused all the time of being a Republican on this board, and your post is the reason why I am not. In fact, the only party with which I ever registered was the Democratic Party, and that's just when I was young and stupid.

Experience has shown me both parties are corrupt and serve a different master than the people they claim to represent. The only change that will come where we recapture the idea of limited government is a change outside of the two systems. A pox on both their houses I say.

That's certainly not how you come across. Your comments are directed against a specific President/Administration/Party.

Imagine how I feel as someone who questions the policies of this Administration on the internet. You don't think the IRS gets forwarded those names? Make no mistake there is a permanent governing class who are intent on keeping their places. It's why President Obama didn't have to tell the IRS to give certain organizations/individuals a harder time; they would do it anyway as a matter of course. People who want limited government aren't just viewed as enemies by this Administration, but by the governing class.

It's A Brave New World.

You think this shit wasn't going on before Obama took office? Or that it'll end when his term is up? Or that he had ANYTHING to do with ANY of it?
All of these agencies are insulated from the minor differences between the political parties and carry on year after year, decade after decade, regardless of which party is "in control". They don't answer to anyone in any meaningful way.

 

[maxiep]

That's certainly not how you come across. Your comments are directed against a specific President/Administration/Party.

Your ignorance is not my problem because you have obviously missed my criticisms of the Bush Administration and the feckless Boehner-led house. Then again, you've been around only since 2012. Which party holds the Presidency and Senate?

You think this shit wasn't going on before Obama took office? Or that it'll end when his term is up? Or that he had ANYTHING to do with ANY of it?

All of these agencies are insulated from the minor differences between the political parties and carry on year after year, decade after decade, regardless of which party is "in control". They don't answer to anyone in any meaningful way.

In retrospect, of course it was occurring. It's why I've always been against the Patriot Act. And I do blame both parties as everyone in the NSA and CIA serve at the pleasure of the President.

 

[Shooter]

There is no way this could be true, because Obama never lies.

 

[Nikolokolus]

There is no way this could be true, because Obama never lies.

It's naive to think this shit is somehow new to the Obama administration. The duopoly that runs this country are both complicit in gutting the Constitution. Obama just had the bad luck to get caught red-handed.

 

[maxiep]

It's naive to think this shit is somehow new to the Obama administration. The duopoly that runs this country are both complicit in gutting the Constitution. Obama just had the bad luck to get caught red-handed.

I don't think "Obama" and "bad luck" have ever really crossed paths. That guy is the luckiest person I've ever seen.

 

[Nikolokolus]

I don't think "Obama" and "bad luck" have ever really crossed paths. That guy is the luckiest person I've ever seen.

I guess we'll see what the long-term fallout over all of this unconstitutional behavior is ... if it all fades into the background noise of twerking, boy bands, TMZ, Duck Dynasty and all of the other trivial bullshit we seem to be obsessed with in this country, then you'll be proved right.

 

[MARIS61]

It's naive to think this shit is somehow new to the Obama administration. The duopoly that runs this country are both complicit in gutting the Constitution. Obama just had the bad luck to get caught red-handed.

It's naive to think office changes of politicians and their administrations has any effect on the actions our government takes.

Our government and all it's branches, especially the military, is controlled 100% by big business. Always was. Always will be.

Washington DC is the world's largest dog and pony show, and nothing more.

 

[Nikolokolus]

It's naive to think office changes of politicians and their administrations has any effect on the actions our government takes.

Our government and all it's branches, especially the military, is controlled 100% by big business. Always was. Always will be.

Washington DC is the world's largest dog and pony show, and nothing more.

Isn't that what I just (more or less) said?

 

[Masbee]

It's naive to think office changes of politicians and their administrations has any effect on the actions our government takes.

Our government and all it's branches, especially the military, is controlled 100% by big business. Always was. Always will be.

Washington DC is the world's largest dog and pony show, and nothing more.

Why would you say "especially the military" as if the military industrial complex has some extra special muscle in Washington that has allowed them to run roughshod over everything else.

Look at facts: the U.S. military budget used to be 50% of the entire federal budget. What percentage is it now? Is that kind of "power" in line with your statement?

 

[Nikolokolus]

Why would you say "especially the military" as if the military industrial complex has some extra special muscle in Washington that has allowed them to run roughshod over everything else.

Look at facts: the U.S. military budget used to be 50% of the entire federal budget. What percentage is it now? Is that kind of "power" in line with your statement?

God help me, I'm about to jump to Maris' defense (kill me now).

What would seem like a reasonable expenditure in peace time and are you seriously disputing the power that the MIC wields when it comes to setting foreign policy and its position of primacy in our economy and society for the past 65+ years?

 

[Masbee]

God help me, I'm about to jump to Maris' defense (kill me now).

What would seem like a reasonable expenditure in peace time and are you seriously disputing the power that the MIC wields when it comes to setting foreign policy and its position of primacy in our economy and society for the past 65+ years?

Ah how soon they forget.

We ARE at war and have been for some time.

 

[Nikolokolus]

Ah how soon they forget.

We ARE at war and have been for some time.

The so-called "war" we're fighting doesn't seem to justify the kinds of budget busting high-tech weapons systems and spending that the DoD has favored for the past 65 years. It doesn't take an F-22 air superiority fighter to fight an asymmetrical enemy like a "terrorist" but we keep dumping hundreds of billions into these kinds of programs.

I'm not against any and all military spending - every nation in history has supported some kind of war fighting ability and they should, otherwise they would be helpless against their enemies - but I worry about the bang for the buck we've gotten over the years and the bankrupting of our country as we continue an arms race with only one real participant. Are we spending all of these exorbitant sums just to defend ourselves, or are we propping up a corporate welfare scheme?

 

[Masbee]

The so-called "war" we're fighting doesn't seem to justify the kinds of budget busting high-tech weapons systems and spending that the DoD has favored for the past 65 years. It doesn't take an F-22 air superiority fighter to fight an asymmetrical enemy like a "terrorist" but we keep dumping hundreds of billions into these kinds of programs.

I'm not against any and all military spending - every nation in history has supported some kind of war fighting ability and they should, otherwise they would be helpless against their enemies - but I worry about the bang for the buck we've gotten over the years and the bankrupting of our country as we continue an arms race with only one real participant. Are we spending all of these exorbitant sums just to defend ourselves, or are we propping up a corporate welfare scheme?

Oh, you support some military spending? How kind of you.

Seems folks tend to forget that the most important rationale for forming this country in the first place, was to "provide for a common defense". Until the Progressive revolution in the U.S. the majority of spending was for "the common defense".

Actually, I support a much smaller military mission and corresponding much smaller budget. I just object to the Left-wing, factually challenged propaganda that the military-industrial complex utterly dominates Washington and thus controls most spending and gets everything that it wants. That is no longer true, and was especially the case prior to 9-11 and the launching of the War on Terror.