The Top Teams 10/9/11

[BLAZER PROPHET]

Well, I have to say LSU has won me over. Another excellent game against a quality opponent. So, my top 5, in order, are with breaks designating which "shelf" they belong on:

1) Alabama
2) Oklahoma

3) LSU

4) Wisconsin
5) Stanford

 

[tlongII]

My ranking:

1) Alabama
2) LSU
3) Wisconsin
4) Stanford
5) Oklahoma

 

[Targus]

Have to admit that both Bama and Okie won some points with me too.

I'm going with....

1. LSU
2. BAMA
3. Oklahoma
4. Wisconsin
5. Boise St. and Clemson -- tie

I'm heavy on LSU and light on BSU and Clemson at #5. No way I'd put Stanford in the top 5 when they have yet to play a single ranked opponent and they pad their schedule with San Jose, Duke with wins over mighty Colorado, UA and UCLA -- and they are still giving up over 300 ypg. Clemson, for example, has beaten three ranked opponents and is only allowing 50 ypg more and has scored nearly as many TD's. Boise St is holding teams under 300 ypg, beat a ranked Georgia team and at least has wins over somewhat respectable Toledo, Fresno St, Nevada.

Stanford gets exposed by Ducks and they drop like a bag o rocks.

 

[Targus]

Sidethought...

Out of all the opponents Stanford has faced...ONE single team has a winning record. That team...DUKE...just happen to lose to Richmond. Against Stanford, Duke had 335 yards and completed 28/39 passes for an avg of 8 ypp. Duke sacked Luck twice and picked him once.

Top 5 team?

 

[Natebishop3]

Why do people still give Boise State credit? Who have they beat this year? Nobody. Have they really established themselves as a perennial top 5 team? Their crazy unbeaten streak is over.

 

[tlongII]

Boise State has a great team. It's not their fault that they play in a lesser conference. All they do is line up and beat whomever they play. I can't stand their program, but I respect them.

 

[Natebishop3]

Boise State has a great team. It's not their fault that they play in a lesser conference. All they do is line up and beat whomever they play. I can't stand their program, but I respect them.

Well then maybe they should try to move to a better conference?

 

[tlongII]

Well then maybe they should try to move to a better conference?

That's why they moved to the Mountain West actually. Unfortunately Utah left and TCU is leaving next season. I'm sure they would love to be invited into the Pac-12, but it won't happen.

 

[Targus]

Uh, using that same logic, why would Stanford be in anyone's top 5? They haven't beat a single ranked team and have only beat one team with a winning record - DUKE.

At least Boise St beat Georgia, who was a top 20 team - and has a winning record.

BTW: Boise St beat Fresno St 57-7. Fresno played 10th ranked Nebraska close, 42-29. Nebraska is currently 5-1.



Oh, that Georgia team that BSU beat by 14 points this season has so far beat Miss St, Tenn, Miss. BSU can hang with any team -- including SEC.

 

[Da_O]

1. LSU
2. Oklahoma
3. Alabama
4. Stanford
t5. Wisconsin
t5. Oklahoma State

 

[PapaG]

Boise State has a great team. It's not their fault that they play in a lesser conference. All they do is line up and beat whomever they play. I can't stand their program, but I respect them.

Utah thought they would dominate the Pac-12 South. Their a cellar-dweller instead. Playing real teams with real NFL players each week is different than playing one or two games a year against the big boys, and the rest against Idaho, San Jose State, and the like.

 

[PapaG]

Had the Ducks played Tennessee this year instead of LSU, they'd still be undefeated and ranked in the Top 4.

Rankings are irrelevant at this point, and LSU should be #1 in every poll for actually playing an elite team OOC, unlike Alabama, who got a mediocre Penn State program.

 

[MickZagger]

Clemson will fall out of everyone's rankings in a couple weeks, that QB was too important.

I hope Stanford goes unbeaten until we play them down in Palo Alto.

 

[tlongII]

Clemson will fall out of everyone's rankings in a couple weeks, that QB was too important.

I hope Stanford goes unbeaten until we play them down in Palo Alto.

I hope Stanford loses their game the week before that.

 

[BLAZER PROPHET]

My ranking:

1) Alabama
2) LSU
3) Wisconsin
4) Stanford
5) Oklahoma

Really? Oklahoma at #5?

 

[BLAZER PROPHET]

Why do people still give Boise State credit? Who have they beat this year? Nobody. Have they really established themselves as a perennial top 5 team? Their crazy unbeaten streak is over.

Agreed. They aren't top 10 material so far as I'm concerned.

 

[BLAZER PROPHET]

Utah thought they would dominate the Pac-12 South. Their a cellar-dweller instead. Playing real teams with real NFL players each week is different than playing one or two games a year against the big boys, and the rest against Idaho, San Jose State, and the like.

Add to this BSU lacks depth. Every injury to a starter means a huge drop off. Most of the top tier programs can easily weather injuries. The pounding that team would take in a better BCS conference would take it's toll.

 

[Wheels]

Clemson will fall out of everyone's rankings in a couple weeks, that QB was too important.

did Boyd go down? I missed most action this saturday. He had ACL problems in high school iirc. I wonder if it was that.

 

[Ghost Pepper]

The Sooners have a great QB, three amazing recievers and a defense that can do massive damage! I have LSU, Bama and the Sooners then there is the next tier of teams.

I think Bama wins the SEC, and I fear they'll play Boise State because the Sooners will be upset by OK State in their civil war and Wisconsin will play the Ducks in the Rose Bowl. LSU probably gets the Sooners or Clemson in a bowl... That's how I see it now.... I don't see LSU going to BAMA and winning!

 

[Da_O]

I don't see either Oklahoma or Oklahoma State losing until they play each other. The wiinner of that will probably play in the BCS championship game. Same with Alabama and LSU.

My prediction:

BCS championship game - LSU vs Oklahoma State
Rose Bowl - Oregon vs Wisconsin
Fiesta Bowl - Oklahoma vs Stanford/Boise State
Sugar Bowl - Alabama vs Stanford/Boise State
Orange Bowl - Clemson(if Boyd comes back GT if not) vs West Virginia

 

[Targus]

There's really zero factual bases for saying BSU isn't an elite program and saying that they couldn't compete in any other league is purely speculation.

This year BSU has soundly defeated an SEC team. That same SEC team has already beat three other SEC teams.

BSU's recent OOC schedule includes ranked Pac10, SEC and ACC teams - all of which they have soundly defeated. Many of those teams have gone on to have excellent seasons.

BSU has won, not just appeared, but WON TWO BCS bowl games - one against a 2 loss Oklahoma team and the other against an undefeated TCU team -- that TCU team beat Virgina and Clemson and OK had defeated three ranked teams including Nebraska.

Last year, BSU beat a 2 loss Utah team in the Las Vegas Bowl - 26-3.

BSU doesn't just compete with elite programs...they often dominate them. It's pure unfounded speculation when fans (who can't site any reasonable creditability) say they couldn't compete in a higher tiered league. Below is a list of former BSU players who have gone on to play professional - NFL/CFL football - all current/recent that proves the talent they field:

Gerald Alexander - S, Miami Dolphins
Richie Brockel - FB, Carolina Panthers
Chris Carr - CB, Baltimore Ravens
Ryan Clady - OT, Denver Broncos, 1st Round, 12th Pick Overall, 2009 Pro Bowl
Daryn Colledge - OG, Arizona Cardinals
Tommy Gallarda - TE, Jacksonville Jaguars
Korey Hall - FB, New Orleans Saints
Quintin Mikell - DB, St. Louis Rams, 2009 Pro Bowl
Legedu Naanee - WR, Carolina Panthers
Orlando Scandrick - CB, Dallas Cowboys
Austin Pettis - WR, St. Louis Rams
Titus Young - WR, Detroit Lions
Brandyn Thompson - CB, Washington Redskins
Derek Schouman - TE, Washington Redskins
Ian Johnson - RB, San Francisco 49ers
Ryan Winterswyk - TE, Atlanta Falcons
Jeron Johnson - CB, Seattle Seahawks
Winston Venable- DB, Chicago Bears
Kyle Wilson - CB, New York Jets, 2010 1st Round, 29th Pick Overall
Andrew Woodruff - OL, Montreal Alouettes
Jon Gott - OL, Calgary Stampeders
Ryan Dinwiddie - QB, Saskatchewan Roughriders

 

[Natebishop3]

There's really zero factual bases for saying BSU isn't an elite program and saying that they couldn't compete in any other league is purely speculation.

This year BSU has soundly defeated an SEC team. That same SEC team has already beat three other SEC teams.

BSU's recent OOC schedule includes ranked Pac10, SEC and ACC teams - all of which they have soundly defeated. Many of those teams have gone on to have excellent seasons.

BSU has won, not just appeared, but WON TWO BCS bowl games - one against a 2 loss Oklahoma team and the other against an undefeated TCU team -- that TCU team beat Virgina and Clemson and OK had defeated three ranked teams including Nebraska.

Last year, BSU beat a 2 loss Utah team in the Las Vegas Bowl - 26-3.

BSU doesn't just compete with elite programs...they often dominate them. It's pure unfounded speculation when fans (who can't site any reasonable creditability) say they couldn't compete in a higher tiered league. Below is a list of former BSU players who have gone on to play professional - NFL/CFL football - all current/recent that proves the talent they field:

Gerald Alexander - S, Miami Dolphins
Richie Brockel - FB, Carolina Panthers
Chris Carr - CB, Baltimore Ravens
Ryan Clady - OT, Denver Broncos, 1st Round, 12th Pick Overall, 2009 Pro Bowl
Daryn Colledge - OG, Arizona Cardinals
Tommy Gallarda - TE, Jacksonville Jaguars
Korey Hall - FB, New Orleans Saints
Quintin Mikell - DB, St. Louis Rams, 2009 Pro Bowl
Legedu Naanee - WR, Carolina Panthers
Orlando Scandrick - CB, Dallas Cowboys
Austin Pettis - WR, St. Louis Rams
Titus Young - WR, Detroit Lions
Brandyn Thompson - CB, Washington Redskins
Derek Schouman - TE, Washington Redskins
Ian Johnson - RB, San Francisco 49ers
Ryan Winterswyk - TE, Atlanta Falcons
Jeron Johnson - CB, Seattle Seahawks
Winston Venable- DB, Chicago Bears
Kyle Wilson - CB, New York Jets, 2010 1st Round, 29th Pick Overall
Andrew Woodruff - OL, Montreal Alouettes
Jon Gott - OL, Calgary Stampeders
Ryan Dinwiddie - QB, Saskatchewan Roughriders

And what happens when those players move on? Are they capable of filling their shoes? I doubt it. I think this was a special team and once their star players are gone that will be it. Portland State had some good basketball teams, that doesn't mean they're a perennial power in NCAA basketball. Just wait and see. That team will be dead and gone from the polls in three years.

 

[Da_O]

And what happens when those players move on? Are they capable of filling their shoes? I doubt it. I think this was a special team and once their star players are gone that will be it. Portland State had some good basketball teams, that doesn't mean they're a perennial power in NCAA basketball. Just wait and see. That team will be dead and gone from the polls in three years.

More like when Kellen Moore moves on. That's the shoes they have to be worried about filling.

 

[tlongII]

Kellen Moore ain't gone yet.

 

[Natebishop3]

More like when Kellen Moore moves on. That's the shoes they have to be worried about filling.

Exactly.

 

[Targus]

BSU has history, guys. They aren't a johnny come lately by any means. I don't understand why anyone would think the program is done after losing a single quality player -- not given their total history of fielding big time quarterbacks (I'm sure you've heard BSU called "quarterback U") and their overall history of dominance - including OOC schedules.

2001-03: Dubwiddie, 169 career pass rating was NCAA record for years
2004-06: Zabransky, 9119 career yards and accurate passer up to 80 yards
2007: Tharp, 3340 yards and 30 TDs, holds single game completion records
2008-11: Moore, should be no need to highlight his accomplishments

1999 Big West Conference - (Div. I-A) 10–3 (5–1)
2000 Big West Conference 10–2 (5–0)
2002 Western Athletic Conference 12–1 (8–0)
2003 Western Athletic Conference 13–1 (8–0)
2004 Western Athletic Conference 11–1 (8–0)
2005 Western Athletic Conference 9–4 (7–1)
2006 Western Athletic Conference 13–0 (8–0)
2008 Western Athletic Conference 12–1 (8–0)
2009 Western Athletic Conference 14–0 (8–0)
2010 Western Athletic Conference 12–1 (7–1)

They have a verbal from a FL QB who threw 2000 yards, 37 TD's and took his team to the title game as a JR. In 2011 they beat out Pac10 teams for a 6'3" QB out of CA. In 2010 Oregon's first team all-state QB landed at BSU. Their #2 is Southwick...his bio reads:

"RS FRESHMAN (2010): Back-up quarterback appeared in eight games during his debut campaign with the Broncos…completed 17-of-24 passes on the season for 202 yards and a touchdown…did not throw an interception…season highs in both completions (eight) and attempts (13) at San Jose State (Oct. 16)…completed 4-of-5 for 102 yards at New Mexico State (Oct. 1), including a 78-yard touchdown pass to Chris Potter, the first of his career…also had nine carries for 31 yards, including a long of 20 yards against the Spartans…named to the WAC All-Academic Team.
FRESHMAN (2009): Redshirt season...named Offensive Scout Player of the Year.

HIGH SCHOOL CAREER
Lettered twice in football, and once each in baseball and basketball…named first-team all-state as a senior…first-team all-conference as a senior and second-team all-conference as a junior…completed 239 passes for 3,781 yards, while throwing 36 touchdown passes and only 11 interceptions as a senior…also rushed for 350 yards and eight scores on 90 carries"

http://www.broncosports.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=9900&ATCLID=3660034

 

[Da_O]

BSU has history, guys. They aren't a johnny come lately by any means. I don't understand why anyone would think the program is done after losing a single quality player -- not given their total history of fielding big time quarterbacks (I'm sure you've heard BSU called "quarterback U") and their overall history of dominance - including OOC schedules.

2001-03: Dubwiddie, 169 career pass rating was NCAA record for years
2004-06: Zabransky, 9119 career yards and accurate passer up to 80 yards
2007: Tharp, 3340 yards and 30 TDs, holds single game completion records
2008-11: Moore, should be no need to highlight his accomplishments

1999 Big West Conference - (Div. I-A) 10–3 (5–1)
2000 Big West Conference 10–2 (5–0)
2002 Western Athletic Conference 12–1 (8–0)
2003 Western Athletic Conference 13–1 (8–0)
2004 Western Athletic Conference 11–1 (8–0)
2005 Western Athletic Conference 9–4 (7–1)
2006 Western Athletic Conference 13–0 (8–0)
2008 Western Athletic Conference 12–1 (8–0)
2009 Western Athletic Conference 14–0 (8–0)
2010 Western Athletic Conference 12–1 (7–1)

They have a verbal from a FL QB who threw 2000 yards, 37 TD's and took his team to the title game as a JR. In 2011 they beat out Pac10 teams for a 6'3" QB out of CA. In 2010 Oregon's first team all-state QB landed at BSU. Their #2 is Southwick...his bio reads:

"RS FRESHMAN (2010): Back-up quarterback appeared in eight games during his debut campaign with the Broncos…completed 17-of-24 passes on the season for 202 yards and a touchdown…did not throw an interception…season highs in both completions (eight) and attempts (13) at San Jose State (Oct. 16)…completed 4-of-5 for 102 yards at New Mexico State (Oct. 1), including a 78-yard touchdown pass to Chris Potter, the first of his career…also had nine carries for 31 yards, including a long of 20 yards against the Spartans…named to the WAC All-Academic Team.
FRESHMAN (2009): Redshirt season...named Offensive Scout Player of the Year.

HIGH SCHOOL CAREER
Lettered twice in football, and once each in baseball and basketball…named first-team all-state as a senior…first-team all-conference as a senior and second-team all-conference as a junior…completed 239 passes for 3,781 yards, while throwing 36 touchdown passes and only 11 interceptions as a senior…also rushed for 350 yards and eight scores on 90 carries"

http://www.broncosports.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=9900&ATCLID=3660034

Those other Qb's you named don't even compare to Kellen Moore. Moore was the biggest recruit Boise State had ever gotten to that point. Zabransky won the Fiesta Bowl for them but they had an overall great team, and I would not say Jared is better than Moore. If you look at the year before that with Zabransky they got killed by Georgia, Oregon State, and Boston College on their own turf. Tharp's years they really didn't play anybody competitive, and when they did, it was to a terrible Washington team and they lost.

Now I don't think Boise State's going to be terrible without Moore, but I've always believed that Quarterback is the most important position and if you don't have stability there, it's hard to be good.

 

[tlongII]

Those other Qb's you named don't even compare to Kellen Moore. Moore was the biggest recruit Boise State had ever gotten to that point. Zabransky won the Fiesta Bowl for them but they had an overall great team, and I would not say Jared is better than Moore. If you look at the year before that with Zabransky they got killed by Georgia, Oregon State, and Boston College on their own turf. Tharp's years they really didn't play anybody competitive, and when they did, it was to a terrible Washington team and they lost.

Now I don't think Boise State's going to be terrible without Moore, but I've always believed that Quarterback is the most important position and if you don't have stability there, it's hard to be good.

The thing is Moore was not a big-time recruit.

 

[Targus]

I think Moore was more of a diamond in the rough as opposed to an elite recruit. Rivals had him as a three star (scout 4*) and he only received around three/four offers from teams like E. Washington and Idaho. He was ranked above 30 at his position.

So far this year they have verbals from ten 3 stars and one 4 star.

The point, as I understood it, was that BSU will drop off when key athletes leave. I disagree. They consistently send players to the NFL - a few professional pro-bowlers, even. So far, they haven't dropped off a whole lot. The program has over a decade long history of finding good talent, developing the players and winning on the field. There's no reason to think the trend won't continue.

If you look at their current verbal list, you'll see kids from FL, TX, CA, Europe and even Canada.

My guess is BSU will be a contender for years to come...although their athletic program issues may bite them in the arse.

 

[Da_O]

I think Moore was more of a diamond in the rough as opposed to an elite recruit. Rivals had him as a three star (scout 4*) and he only received around three/four offers from teams like E. Washington and Idaho. He was ranked above 30 at his position.

So far this year they have verbals from ten 3 stars and one 4 star.

The point, as I understood it, was that BSU will drop off when key athletes leave. I disagree. They consistently send players to the NFL - a few professional pro-bowlers, even. So far, they haven't dropped off a whole lot. The program has over a decade long history of finding good talent, developing the players and winning on the field. There's no reason to think the trend won't continue.

If you look at their current verbal list, you'll see kids from FL, TX, CA, Europe and even Canada.

My guess is BSU will be a contender for years to come...although their athletic program issues may bite them in the arse.

Kellen Moore was not a diamond in the rough. He was invited to the Elite 11 QB camp, many teams knew his name. I remember how big of a deal Boise State fans were making about how good he could be, and they were right.

Targus do you disagree that Moore has been their best QB ever? If not then who, if so, then why is it not reasonable to expect some sort of drop off after he leaves? Powerhouses like Texas struggle when they lose key athletes and important positions like QB. So I disagree that there wont be any dropoff, I believe Boise State will fall off the BCS radar over the next few years. They'll still probably take their extremely weak conference though.