The Top Teams 10/9/11

[tlongII]

Kellen Moore was not a diamond in the rough. He was invited to the Elite 11 QB camp, many teams knew his name. I remember how big of a deal Boise State fans were making about how good he could be, and they were right.

Targus do you disagree that Moore has been their best QB ever? If not then who, if so, then why is it not reasonable to expect some sort of drop off after he leaves? Powerhouses like Texas struggle when they lose key athletes and important positions like QB. So I disagree that there wont be any dropoff, I believe Boise State will fall off the BCS radar over the next few years. They'll still probably take their extremely weak conference though.

He was a 3 star and he was rated 10th at his position in the state of Washington. That's not that big a deal.

http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/football/recruiting/player-Kellen-Moore-47002

 

[Targus]

I agree there could be a drop off. They graduate a lot of SR starters including QB, RB, FB. What I do expect out of BSU is that they continue to be competitive. Next year looks to be a rebuilding year (check out their depth chart and all the SR's) but the year after that, they could be looking very good.

Moore has been a total stud and arguably one of their best QB's. But, BSU has over a decade long history of fielding strong QB's and nothing leads me to believe the trend ends with Moore.

I guess we disagree on Moore's recruit stats out of HS. I've referenced both scout and rivals

Scout reports he received an offer from BSU and Eastern Washington and they called him "one of the most underappreciated quarterbacks out west. If he was two inches taller and a tenth faster, he'd be on the national radar." http://recruiting.scout.com/a.z?s=73&p=8&c=1&nid=2323395

Rivals states he also received an offer from Idaho -- not a single offer from any Pac school.

 

[tlongII]

I do think they will drop off though. Moore has proven to be one of the best college quarterbacks ever in my opinion. He will not be easy to replace.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

Which school do you guys expect to experience a bigger dropoff next year after their top QB graduates--BSU or Stanford?

 

[Wheels]

in record I would probably say Stanford. They will lose more in the Pac 12 than BSU would in the MWC. But Stanford from top to bottom will be a better team than BSU IMO.


Also am I the only one who thinks that TCU, Utah, BYU, and co would have been smarter to stay in a conference if it added BSU, Nevada, Fresno State, And could have stuck with Air Force, San Diego St and so on.

 

[PapaG]

Which school do you guys expect to experience a bigger dropoff next year after their top QB graduates--BSU or Stanford?

Stanford, because they don't get to load up on creampuffs for 8 games a year. Hell, Oregon playing Nevada was a sure-win, and everybody knew it. Yet Boise only puts up 30 points on them, and that's the program that knocked them out of a BCS game last year?

Boise has elite results, but calling them an elite program is a disservice to teams from real conferences. I even question them being an elite program, because so many weird things have to happen for them to even get a shot at a BCS title, and even then, teams from the SEC, B1G, Big-12, and Pac-12 would have legitimate complaints if a no-loss Boise got in over a 1-loss team from any of those conferences.

 

[Targus]

They have won more BCS bowl games in the past decade than Oregon has. They beat Oregon twice recently...and actually beat an SEC team with a strong record this year.

Would you call Oregon elite?

This season they beat Fresno State 57-7 and Fresno played Cal VERY tough.

Yes, Nevada played BSU tough this year. Cal played us tough last year and nearly beat us. Did that mean we weren't elite and deserving of a NC appearance?

 

[Natebishop3]

They have won more BCS bowl games in the past decade than Oregon has. They beat Oregon twice recently...and actually beat an SEC team with a strong record this year.

Would you call Oregon elite?

This season they beat Fresno State 57-7 and Fresno played Cal VERY tough.

Yes, Nevada played BSU tough this year. Cal played us tough last year and nearly beat us. Did that mean we weren't elite and deserving of a NC appearance?

Being an elite program means you are able to stay in the top ten year after year after year after year after year. We're talking a decade or more. No, I don't think Oregon is an elite program, yet.... They are definitely on their way. They have the facilities, the coaching staff, and the talent. BSU does not have what it takes to sustain this. They have had a great batch of guys for the past three or four years, but what happens when those guys are gone? Plus, I think a lot of people have taken them lightly, but that shouldn't be the case any longer. I would love to see Oregon take another shot at them, especially in a BCS bowl.

 

[MickZagger]

I'm not a Boise St. fan by any means. Don't really like them actually. But, for all the grief for playing cupcakes, they show up against good teams when put to the test in bowl games. They are for real.

 

[Natebishop3]

I'm not a Boise St. fan by any means. Don't really like them actually. But, for all the grief for playing cupcakes, they show up against good teams when put to the test in bowl games. They are for real.

They are for real right now, that's not what we are arguing. Some of us feel that they are not an elite program yet, and that they will suffer a dropoff when they lose some of the guys on the team right now. I feel like they haven't earned the automatic top-10 ranking that they've gotten this year. They were unbeaten last season, they lost a game and that should be that.

 

[MickZagger]

They are for real right now, that's not what we are arguing. Some of us feel that they are not an elite program yet, and that they will suffer a dropoff when they lose some of the guys on the team right now. I feel like they haven't earned the automatic top-10 ranking that they've gotten this year. They were unbeaten last season, they lost a game and that should be that.

People have been saying they'd dropoff for years now. Going on 10+ years and 4, or 5 different recruiting cycles. They aren't going anywhere. Difference now is they've made a name for themselves and recruiting will only get better. As for if they're elite, or not. I'd say they are in the same ilk as the Ducks. Elite, but not super elite.

 

[Natebishop3]

People have been saying they'd dropoff for years now. Going on 10+ years and 4, or 5 different recruiting cycles. They aren't going anywhere. Difference now is they've made a name for themselves and recruiting will only get better. As for if they're elite, or not. I'd say they are in the same ilk as the Ducks. Elite, but not super elite.

But unlike the Ducks, they play in an inferior conference. If the Ducks played in the WAC, I'd bet they'd go undefeated or nearly undefeated every season too.

 

[PapaG]

They have won more BCS bowl games in the past decade than Oregon has. They beat Oregon twice recently...and actually beat an SEC team with a strong record this year.

If Oregon got to play in the WAC and prepare all summer for one game against a real team, my guess is they would have 6 BCS bowl appearances over the past 12 years. Reality says that BSU benefits greatly by playing in a goofball conference. Oregon has won Big Boy titles in Big Boy conferences. I'm not saying that BSU isn't a very good program, but calling them "elite" is a laugher to me considering that they have beat '1' BCS bowl team/conference champ OOC in the past decade. That happened to be Oregon, unforunately, in an opening game.

Would you call Oregon elite?

Nope, although a big part of that is because they had to compete with USC every year in their conference instead of Fresno State.

 

[MickZagger]

But unlike the Ducks, they play in an inferior conference. If the Ducks played in the WAC, I'd bet they'd go undefeated or nearly undefeated every season too.

I'm not saying they should be in a Title game, or anything. I'm just saying they're a legit team and win against elite teams in good bowl games when put to the test. Its no fluke.

Considering the facilities and the shit-hole that is Boise, its pretty impressive.

 

[Targus]

Strongly agree with MZ. Well said. I actually DESPISE BSU. Really do. But, I have to give them credit. Basically, there is no factual basis to say they will drop off and it's pure speculation. Sure it could happen. But, I'm looking at their ability over the last decade to play with the big boys and even WIN in BIG bowl games -- and there is no reason to think that changes -- I just spent a few min. looking at their recruiting. I am guessing they'll be around for a while.

 

[Natebishop3]

Strongly agree with MZ. Well said. I actually DESPISE BSU. Really do. But, I have to give them credit. Basically, there is no factual basis to say they will drop off and it's pure speculation. Sure it could happen. But, I'm looking at their ability over the last decade to play with the big boys and even WIN in BIG bowl games -- and there is no reason to think that changes -- I just spent a few min. looking at their recruiting. I am guessing they'll be around for a while.

How do you factually prove that there will be a dropoff? If you can prove how a team will factually play in the future, I would love to hear some of those facts so I can put money down. The truth is, nobody knows how things will play out and there is no such thing as facts that will prove how they will perform in the future. They could sustain injuries that decimate their roster, they could have chemistry problems and under perform, etc etc etc. There are a myriad of problems that could stand in the way of success.

 

[Targus]

My point is that trying to predict the future of their program is speculation either way. I've agreed, it's entirely possible they COULD drop off (woah, I actually read your point and agree, are you able to do the same -- ever?) , but what is the basis for this? Loss of talent at QB? They have a history of fielding excellent QB's and have recruited very well. Their current #2 has experience and excellent stats. The staff there continues to find and develop excellent talent - year after year. Their rise really dates back over 12 years ago when they beat Louisville in a bowl game and experienced 4 straight bowl wins against teams like TCU, Iowa State. Lousiville.

As I've said, it's possible they drop off and I could see a small drop next year as they lose a lot of starters, but they do have talent waiting. I think they'll be very, very good in 2013.

 

[Natebishop3]

My point is that trying to predict the future of their program is speculation either way. I've agreed, it's entirely possible they COULD drop off (woah, I actually read your point and agree, are you able to do the same -- ever?) , but what is the basis for this? Loss of talent at QB? They have a history of fielding excellent QB's and have recruited very well. Their current #2 has experience and excellent stats. The staff there continues to find and develop excellent talent - year after year. Their rise really dates back over 12 years ago when they beat Louisville in a bowl game and experienced 4 straight bowl wins against teams like TCU, Iowa State. Lousiville.

As I've said, it's possible they drop off and I could see a small drop next year as they lose a lot of starters, but they do have talent waiting. I think they'll be very, very good in 2013.

But I'm never wrong

 

[Ghost Pepper]

You can get into Boise St. with a library card. Their academic programs are laughable which is why they are not being courted by the Pac-12. They are the U of 90's in the northwest. I'm just shocked Dennis Erickson isn't their coach!

Don't expect their talent to drop off, infact I wouldn't be surprised to see the Big 11 go after them next!