The trade exception

[illmatic99]

Neil has repeatedly mentioned in his many interviews since the AC trade last summer that we have the (edit: second) biggest trade exception in the league. He also has mentioned that we wanted to get out of the tax this year so that we can start the clock on the repeater tax next year.

We can then surmise that (if we take him at his word) that he will possibly use the trade exception in this summer before it expires and get into the tax before/after our RFA signings.

The TPE is for $12.9 mil (+ 100K) and will expire on July 25, 2018. We also have a $3.5 mil TPE that expires on Feb 8, 2019 from the Vonleh trade. They can't be combined with any other players or exceptions on our roster in a trade. But I suppose some cap trickery can be achieved in multiple transactions to allow for more salary to go out in exchange of players/picks/etc. This is definitely another tool along with our non-taxpayer MLE to add talent to the roster.

Who are possible candidates? Can it be used in a S&T?

 

[illmatic99]

Here are some salaries that we can take on:

 

[e_blazer]

Neil has repeatedly mentioned in his many interviews since the AC trade last summer that we have the biggest trade exception in the league. He also has mentioned that we wanted to get out of the tax this year so that we can start the clock on the repeater tax next year.

We can then surmise that (if we take him at his word) that he will possibly use the trade exception in this summer before it expires and get into the tax before/after our RFA signings.

The TPE is for $12.9 mil and will expire on July 25, 2018. We also have a $3.5 mil TPE that expires on Feb 8, 2019 from the Vonleh trade. They can't be combined with any other players or exceptions on our roster in a trade. But I suppose some cap trickery can be achieved in multiple transactions to allow for more salary to go out in exchange of players/picks/etc. This is definitely another tool along with our non-taxpayer MLE to add talent to the roster.

Who are possible candidates? Can it be used in a S&T?

The bolded part isn't exactly right, according to the Salary Cap FAQ:

"A common misconception is that players cannot be traded together in a non-simultaneous trade. This is not true -- players can be traded together as long as the outgoing salaries are not aggregated. For example, trading two $10 million players for a $20 million player requires aggregation, and therefore must be simultaneous. But trading two $10 million players for a $12 million player can be accomplished without aggregation -- one of the $10 million players would be used to acquire the $12 million player in a simultaneous trade, and the other $10 million player would be traded for "nothing," in a non-simultaneous trade, gaining the team a $10 million trade exception."

I don't know if you could use it in a sign-and-trade.

 

[Orion Bailey]

Here are some salaries that we can take on:

View attachment 18779

You have Leonard and Harkless on here. Dont we already take on their salary?

Im pretty confused now...

 

[illmatic99]

You have Leonard and Harkless on here. Dont we already take on their salary?

Im pretty confused now...

That's just a list of players making between 10 and 13 mil next season. What's confusing?

 

[Orion Bailey]

That's just a list of players making between 10 and 13 mil next season. What's confusing?

But, shouldn't they be removed from the list? Neither of them expire this year for us to need to sign them?

And then many of these are under contract through next season I think, so its not like we can just sign these people right? We have tog give up in a sign and trade?

I'm dumb in this area though. You have been forewarned... if you didn't already know.

 

[Hobbesarable]

But, shouldn't they be removed from the list? Neither of them expire this year for us to need to sign them?

And then many of these are under contract through next season I think, so its not like we can just sign these people right? We have tog give up in a sign and trade?

I'm dumb in this area though. You have been forewarned... if you didn't already know.

He looked up a list of players earning in a certain bracket (1o to 13 million). Hark and Leonard just happen to be in that same bracket when he looked up all NBA players on Basketball Reference.com.

 

[hoopsjock]

You can technically use it for a sign and trade BUT not if you are over the tax apron and I believe we'd be hard capped too which would make signing any of our RFA's near impossible. So the real answer is that even though you can, we won't be able to.

 

[Scalma]

Considering Milwaukee will have to pay Parker, Middleton and Snell seem possible.

 

[illmatic99]

Considering Milwaukee will have to pay Parker, Middleton and Snell seem possible.

Middleton for our TPE + 2018 first rounder? Would they do this?

 

[PtldPlatypus]

Middleton for our TPE + 2018 first rounder? Would they do this?

The Bucks don't really have a primary majority owner, so we'd probably have to kidnap a member of 3 or 4 different families in order to get them to agree to that. Probably not worth the risk.

 

[andalusian]

Here are some salaries that we can take on:

View attachment 18779

I love the fact that we can get ourselves a 2nd Meyers Leonard on this roster.

 

[hoopsjock]

Khris Middleton for future picks and the TPE would be awesome but probably unlikely.

I still believe the best route is to take on a bad contract at the draft for an extra 1st rounder and then use that pick and our 1st rounder to try and move up.

Something like one of these:

Faried and a 1st rounder (currently 19th)

Rivers and the worst of their 2 1st rounders (currently 14th)

Miles Plumlee and one of their three 1st rounders (via Minnesota currently 24th or Houston 30th) and their 2nd rounder (31st)

 

[Scalma]

Middleton for our TPE + 2018 first rounder? Would they do this?

Seems somewhat fair.

I bet they’d do Snell for the TPE straight up.

 

[hoopsjock]

Middleton for our TPE + 2018 first rounder? Would they do this?

It might be tricky because Middleton doesn't go down to $13 million until after the new league starts so it might have to be a 2019 pick. I know you can just wait for the trade to go through in July but it always is weird when that happens.

 

[illmatic99]

I still believe the best route is to take on a bad contract at the draft for an extra 1st rounder and then use that pick and our 1st rounder to try and move up.

Something like one of these:

Faried and a 1st rounder (currently 19th)

Rivers and the worst of their 2 1st rounders (currently 14th)

Miles Plumlee and one of their three 1st rounders (via Minnesota currently 24th or Houston 30th) and their 2nd rounder (31st)

This is an interesting perspective, and one I hadn't considered. How would Dame feel about bringing yet another young rookie in, though?

 

[hoopsjock]

This is an interesting perspective, and one I hadn't considered. How would Dame feel about bringing yet another young rookie in, though?

Well, he allegedly wanted Donovan Mitchell right? Getting a guy like Mikal Bridges, who is practically ready to play, wouldn't bother Dame at all I'd assume if he's good. He'd be a perfect fit in the Dame/CJ/Bridges/Collins/Nurk starting lineup next year. He can score, shoot the 3, and plays good defense.

 

[dviss1]

Well, he allegedly wanted Donovan Mitchell right? Getting a guy like Mikal Bridges, who is practically ready to play, wouldn't bother Dame at all I'd assume if he's good. He'd be a perfect fit in the Dame/CJ/Bridges/Collins/Nurk starting lineup next year. He can score, shoot the 3, and plays good defense.

Is he practically ready?

He's skinny, and not that athletic. His numbers look solid but all I've seen of him doesn't pass the eye test. He takes a lot of contested shots too.

I'm not sold.

 

[Sarni]

We are not getting Middleton for a trade exception, come on. Snell maybe but he's not really a good player.

Warren on that list is the best choice but probably unlikely too. Likely options are non-core players who are at teams that will need money to extend someone else, like Alec Burks or Nikola Vucevic.

 

[Sarni]

Khris Middleton for future picks and the TPE would be awesome but probably unlikely.

I still believe the best route is to take on a bad contract at the draft for an extra 1st rounder and then use that pick and our 1st rounder to try and move up.

Something like one of these:

Faried and a 1st rounder (currently 19th)

Rivers and the worst of their 2 1st rounders (currently 14th)

Miles Plumlee and one of their three 1st rounders (via Minnesota currently 24th or Houston 30th) and their 2nd rounder (31st)

I like this idea a lot. We could move up to 9th or 10th with such package. Problem is we would need to clear some salary to stay below tax line but we could probably send Harkless somewhere for nothing in return.

 

[hoopsjock]

Is he practically ready?

He's skinny, and not that athletic. His numbers look solid but all I've seen of him doesn't pass the eye test. He takes a lot of contested shots too.

I'm not sold.

As long as it isn't in a ball hog type of way, I kind of like when players aren't afraid to shoot the ball when they have a guy in their face. That is one of the things I look for when trying to translate someone's game to the next level since if you are good you rarely get clean looks in the NBA.

I think he plays really solid defense, has a huge wingspan, and puts up those good numbers despite a fairly low usage rate (up a bit this year). I think that is exactly what the starting lineup needs. Someone who doesn't need the ball but can score when passed to. He can create his own shot too, he just does it in an unconventional way with positioning versus breaking guys down off the dribble. I don't know, you might be right too but he seems like a Paul George type to me.

 

[hoopsjock]

I like this idea a lot. We could move up to 9th or 10th with such package. Problem is we would need to clear some salary to stay below tax line but we could probably send Harkless somewhere for nothing in return.

If we use the TPE we are paying the tax next year (by a lot), there is no way around that. We are almost certainly a tax team even without using the TPE.

 

[tester551]

The bolded part isn't exactly right, according to the Salary Cap FAQ:

"A common misconception is that players cannot be traded together in a non-simultaneous trade. This is not true -- players can be traded together as long as the outgoing salaries are not aggregated. For example, trading two $10 million players for a $20 million player requires aggregation, and therefore must be simultaneous. But trading two $10 million players for a $12 million player can be accomplished without aggregation -- one of the $10 million players would be used to acquire the $12 million player in a simultaneous trade, and the other $10 million player would be traded for "nothing," in a non-simultaneous trade, gaining the team a $10 million trade exception."

I don't know if you could use it in a sign-and-trade.

You're understanding this example incorrectly here.

Actually, that example really isn't applicable for "using" a non-simultaneous TPE. The example shows how you can 'create' a TPE by trading players.

The paragraph that you want to understand is this:

If a team has two trade exceptions from previous non-simultaneous trades, they can't combine them into one larger trade exception. Suppose a team trades a $5 million player for a $4 million player (generating a $1 million trade exception) and separately trades a $3 million player for a $1 million player (generating a $2 million trade exception). They cannot combine the two into a single $3 million trade exception. A rule of thumb is that a trade exception can only be used to acquire a player making up to the amount of the exception plus $100,000.

You can S&T a player using a TPE.

Teams cannot use trade exceptions to sign free agents; they can be used only to acquire existing contracts from other teams. However, a team can acquire a free agent using a trade exception if he is signed by his prior team and traded in a sign-and-trade transaction (see question number 92).

But it doesn't matter. There is no way Portland is going to be using their TPE this year.

 

[Denny Crane]

You can technically use it for a sign and trade BUT not if you are over the tax apron and I believe we'd be hard capped too which would make signing any of our RFA's near impossible. So the real answer is that even though you can, we won't be able to.

Looks to me like the Blazers might be ~$11M under the LT this summer, not including cap holds. We can almost use $11M of the TPE and stay under the LT. We'd definitely go over the LT to re-sign Nurk and Davis and Napier and probably Pat.

The TPE cannot be used to sign players.

 

[hoopsjock]

Looks to me like the Blazers might be ~$11M under the LT this summer, not including cap holds. We can almost use $11M of the TPE and stay under the LT. We'd definitely go over the LT to re-sign Nurk and Davis and Napier and probably Pat.

The TPE cannot be used to sign players.

The Blazers will be about $11 million under the tax line WITHOUT the cap holds, not with them.

 

[Denny Crane]

The Blazers will be about $11 million under the tax line WITHOUT the cap holds, not with them.

I wrote, "not including cap holds."

I wrote about the possible scenarios.

We can use the TPE if we're over the LT, but have to play by the S&T rules for teams over the LT.

 

[hoopsjock]

I wrote, "not including cap holds."

I wrote about the possible scenarios.

We can use the TPE if we're over the LT, but have to play by the S&T rules for teams over the LT.

Okay I misunderstood what you are saying but you just ignored the part where we would be hard capped and wouldn't be able to sign our own free agents.

I was speaking about Sign-And-Trades with the TPE, I think that is where I got confused and you were simply talking about just using the TPE.

 

[AFully22]

Considering Milwaukee will have to pay Parker, Middleton and Snell seem possible.

If Olshey can land Middleton for the TPE and a first I would name my first born after him. Almost certainly won’t happen though.

The idea I had was to use the TPE and a pick for Vucevic and then not re sign Nurkic. Dame and Vucevic in the pick n pop would be pretty. And this isn’t a dig on Nurkic, I just like Vucevic offensive game a whole lot and think if you got him out of Orlando he could be even better.

 

[hoopsjock]

If Olshey can land Middleton for the TPE and a first I would name my first born after him. Almost certainly won’t happen though.

The idea I had was to use the TPE and a pick for Vucevic and then not re sign Nurkic. Dame and Vucevic in the pick n pop would be pretty. And this isn’t a dig on Nurkic, I just like Vucevic offensive game a whole lot and think if you got him out of Orlando he could be even better.

Except that Vucevic is bad on defense so our bottom of the league defense would likely be back.

 

[RR7]

Here are some salaries that we can take on:

View attachment 18779

Thanks for putting together the list.
I think another thing to look for is what potential teams might be close to cap space, and could benefit from clearing additional salary. Teams that are, maybe, at 10 million in space, and want 18. Or teams slightly over, that want to get under. Teams that are over LT, and want to drop below.
Then you can start to look at, say, taking on Bayless for an asset, so Philly has more space to chase Lebron. Things along those lines