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@jonnyboy , @beast crnjo

Is there any war in history that you think was worth fighting rather than surrendering? If so which one(s) and why?

If you say no, I will at least give you points for consistency (but also for idiocy).
If you say yes, we can explore the perceived differences between those wars and the current examples.

barfo
 
jonnyboy said:
Who said Russia is right? Certainly not me. The sum of all the parts of this is that this conflict has run it’s course and it’s time to negotiate.
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It's not time to negotiate until Ukraine decides it is.

The people are choosing to defend themselves, therefore we should support them. If they decide not to defend themselves the Ukrainian government will not be able to mount a defense and they will have to negotiate.
 
jonnyboy said:
The contested regions are Russian people who want to be part of Russia, have been attacked by the west for years, had a referendum and voted to join Russia. Take a hint. Now people from the west of Ukraine are being marched to their deaths to retain lands where the inhabitants dont even want to be a part of Ukraine. Your idea that people are standing up to defend themselves is misguided. Thousands fled the country to avoid the pointless war, any voluntary enlisted soldiers are long dead along with the conscripts of fighting age. Now people who are too old to fight are being sent to die in battle against their will. And at the end of the day Ukraine will lose all those lands anyway.
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What is the Montana militia invaded Wyoming and stole all the calfs, kids, & rapped their women. You'd be pulling out that 7mm and be putting on your sheep herders coat.
 
jonnyboy said:
This is just unhinged dick swinging. This ridiculous posturing and misguided “patriotism” over contractors money laundering war between two corrupt countries is batshit crazy. Hundreds of thousands dead for nothing and you wanna throw more down the rathole while you cheerlead macho ideas from a safe distance.
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LOL. There's a reason why these doctrines exist, and having a historical understanding of what you need to do to stand up to strongmen is to be strong, and project strength. What you're arguing for is weakness, and tucking your tail between your legs and running away from a clear black and white, right and wrong situation. It's amazing to me how many people are falling for the Trump argument that we need to surrender and stop supporting our partners against tyrants, what a weak take. I expect America and Americans to be strong and support democracies in the face of tyrants that attack their neighbors, and support them. It's what Raegan did, and would do, and what most post war conservatives would do, they would show strength instead of showing weakness as they know that a strongman like Putin will just feast on that kind of weak mentality. It's seriously sad and shows no historical understanding of how to deal with these situations.
 
beast crnjo said:
Do I really need to point out that we were attacked at Pearl Harbor? I could list you quite a few conflicts going on around the world, that you probably have never heard of, that we're not involved in. How do you suppose the US chooses which conflicts to get involved in?

You also seem to be assuming that I'm a republican. I actually hated the neocons and George Bush for getting involved in Iraq and Afghanistan.

It's also a much different equation when you have skin in the game, which you do not. What if you were offered the change to pick up an AK-47 and fight in Myanmar? I'd bet anything you'd refuse.
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Yes, you do need to point that out, because your entire argument has been that we should just give up and surrender to tyrants. It's a weak take and shows weakness, it's sad.

And no, why the hell would I pickup an AK-47 to fight in Myanmar? I wouldn't fight in Ukraine either, because I don't have to - a Ukrainian does, and that's the way it should be. Americans shouldn't be involved, and if we fail to provide them with the necessary funding and weaponry to defend themselves, it greatly increases the chances we WILL have to get involved with boots on the ground with some future conflict. It shows weakness, and people like Putin feast on weakness. I am all for supporting them and funding their defense against an aggressor tyrant, because it is in the best interest of the USA to do so.
 
jonnyboy said:
The contested regions are Russian people who want to be part of Russia, have been attacked by the west for years, had a referendum and voted to join Russia. Take a hint. Now people from the west of Ukraine are being marched to their deaths to retain lands where the inhabitants dont even want to be a part of Ukraine. Your idea that people are standing up to defend themselves is misguided. Thousands fled the country to avoid the pointless war, any voluntary enlisted soldiers are long dead along with the conscripts of fighting age. Now people who are too old to fight are being sent to die in battle against their will. And at the end of the day Ukraine will lose all those lands anyway.
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Would you defend your house against a homeless person who moves into the front room? I am guessing not, you'd rather just surrender and give it to them. What a weak take.
 
Voodoo said:
LOL. There's a reason why these doctrines exist, and having a historical understanding of what you need to do to stand up to strongmen is to be strong, and project strength. What you're arguing for is weakness, and tucking your tail between your legs and running away from a clear black and white, right and wrong situation. It's amazing to me how many people are falling for the Trump argument that we need to surrender and stop supporting our partners against tyrants, what a weak take. I expect America and Americans to be strong and support democracies in the face of tyrants that attack their neighbors, and support them. It's what Raegan did, and would do, and what most post war conservatives would do, they would show strength instead of showing weakness as they know that a strongman like Putin will just feast on that kind of weak mentality. It's seriously sad and shows no historical understanding of how to deal with these situations.
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It’s far beyond the stage of posturing. The war is lost already, the profiteers are just picking at the bones before they scrap it. I find this terribly unfortunate by the way and am not reveling in this fact. Soon enough you will see this, but only for a brief moment before your attention is directed to the next boogeyman or existential crisis that demands CIA brand democracy be thrown at it.
 
jonnyboy said:
It’s far beyond the stage of posturing. The war is lost already, the profiteers are just picking at the bones before they scrap it. I find this terribly unfortunate by the way and am not reveling in this fact. Soon enough you will see this, but only for a brief moment before your attention is directed to the next boogeyman or existential crisis that demands CIA brand democracy be thrown at it.
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What a bunch of malarkey, such a weak take. The war is only lost once you’ve lost the will to fight, if you truly find this unfortunate it’s sad how Putin so easily broke your will to support Ukraine.
 
jonnyboy said:
The world is waiting.
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The only people waiting for Ukraine to surrender are Russia, China, Iran and other authoritarian regimes.

Pretty much everyone else is eager to help Ukraine defend themselves.
 
Phatguysrule said:
The only people waiting for Ukraine to surrender are Russia, China, Iran, the Republican Party, and other authoritarian regimes.

Pretty much everyone else is eager to help Ukraine defend themselves.
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FTFY

barfo
 
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