OT The U.S. has wasted over $14 trillion on warfare over the past three decades

[Chris Craig]

We all know most of that $14 trillion disappeared into deep pockets.

 

[HailBlazers]

This is probably the most important issue we face.....military escalation vs infrastructure spending.....problem is, the Hawks are in the white house now...arms dealers are going to make out like bandits......not only the cost of war, but the waste of equipment we just leave all over the planet. Never made sense to me...we don't need a wall....we need a decent border patrol and bigger Coast Guard....our soldiers and sailors should be spending their paychecks in the states, not overseas. The military could actually accomplish a lot if their work days were focused on fixing our nation at home instead of propping up dictators in countries that hate us anyway. Guards standing posts all around the globe could be posted on the borders of our own country instead of Korea or the middle east.

Now? Lol see the thread title.

 

[dviss1]

Shameful...

https://www.nationalpriorities.org/cost-of/?redirect=cow

 

[Denny Crane]

The cost of socialism.

 

[Natebishop3]

Ike obviously didn't know anything about war though....

 

[MarAzul]

Ike obviously didn't know anything about war though....

I think you are right.

 

[riverman]

Ike obviously didn't know anything about war though....

Ike didn't care for Harry's posturing against the Soviets...I don't think he really wanted to be prez anyway....his vice prez really did

 

[lawai'a]

http://www.msn.com/en-us/money/mark...hey-pay/ar-AApCtnZ?li=BBmkt5R&ocid=spartandhp
i'm thinking $14 trillion gets you universal healthy care and free college/trade school tuition, at least the first 2 years. a more harmonious outcome.
likely a significant decrease in mental health problems and a lower suicide rate too.

 

[Denny Crane]

I'm thinking $14 trillion is a number made up, with no actual basis in fact or accounting.

If you're pissed about money spent for no good, we have $10T of that the past 8 years (with actual basis in fact and accounting) and the yearly interest on the debt is $400B (in just 10 months this year, so far), or $4T over 10 years. That $4T would buy a lot of things without the need to raise anyone's taxes.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Financial_cost_of_the_Iraq_War

The costs of the 2003-2010 Iraq War are often contested, as academics and critics have unearthed many hidden costs not represented in official estimates. The most recent major report on these costs come from Brown University in the form of the Costs of War, which totaled just over $1.1 trillion.

...

The most recent CBO report, which was conducted after the end of combat operations and hence did not have to estimate future costs, was released in December 2014 and placed the cost at $0.815 trillion.[9]

 

[lawai'a]

costs of nation building Iraq and Afghanistan also include long term funding of medical and disability for vets and families, replacing the arms munitions equipment and vehicles used destroyed or left behind, a continuing military presence to train and equip the rebuilding nations military, the infrastructure replacements and diplomatic missions to those countries. oh, and remember the debt service for monies borrowed to prosecute these wars. the bulk of the costs have yet to be accounted or paid and will certainly exceed $1.1 trillion

 

[Denny Crane]

costs of nation building Iraq and Afghanistan also include long term funding of medical and disability for vets and families, replacing the arms munitions equipment and vehicles used destroyed or left behind, a continuing military presence to train and equip the rebuilding nations military, the infrastructure replacements and diplomatic missions to those countries. oh, and remember the debt service for monies borrowed to prosecute these wars. the bulk of the costs have yet to be accounted or paid and will certainly exceed $1.1 trillion

Those studies include all those costs. Not just all the money appropriated for direct costs, which is far less than the $1.1T.

$14T is a completely made up and imaginary number, with no basis in fact.

 

[lawai'a]

no

 

[riverman]

$14T is a completely made up and imaginary number, with no basis in fact.

your statement is nothing more than speculation......which is fine...but you harp on Obama's debt with no reference to the cost of war during his term relating to the debt....as if they were separated ......you seem to have no problem with Trump's bankruptcies however....and he definitely used debt to solve his problems ..the govt spent over half a million dollars fitting a war vet friend of mine with a prosthetic limb.....I guess that's also bad accounting..let's say there were more than one of these soldiers to fix after the fact..the last strike in Syria of 59 missles at over a million per missile....you see....it adds up really fast.

 

[Denny Crane]

your statement is nothing more than speculation......which is fine...but you harp on Obama's debt with no reference to the cost of war during his term relating to the debt....as if they were separated ......you seem to have no problem with Trump's bankruptcies however....and he definitely used debt to solve his problems ..the govt spent over half a million dollars fitting a war vet friend of mine with a prosthetic limb.....I guess that's also bad accounting..

I am not speculating. I am using data and studies by CBO, CRS, universities, etc.

Even if we financed the entire wars, it's a fraction of Obama's debt. Hint: we didn't finance any of the wars. We financed everything else.

 

[riverman]

I am not speculating. I am using data and studies by CBO, CRS, universities, etc.

Even if we financed the entire wars, it's a fraction of Obama's debt. Hint: we didn't finance any of the wars. We financed everything else.

I think you're ignoring costs ......

Hint: we didn't finance any of the wars.

you started in this thread saying you think the numbers are wrong....then escalate to posting you know they are wrong......but Obama!!!!!!! OK..if you think none of our debt is connected to military expenses.....I say you're once again witch hunting for Obama ammo...hint....Obama hasn't been prez for 3 decades either....

 

[Denny Crane]

I think you're ignoring costs ......
you started in this thread saying you think the numbers are wrong....then escalate to posting you know they are wrong......but Obama!!!!!!! OK..if you think none of our debt is connected to military expenses.....I say you're once again witch hunting for Obama ammo...hint....Obama hasn't been prez for 3 decades either....

I am correct. I have seen no data at all that suggests anything close to $14T.

Obama is out of bounds? He blamed W for 8 years, but that was OK.

None of our debt is connected to the military expenses.

We had a $200B surplus when W took over. He spent $100B of that on his wars. We would have had a $100B surplus. So whatever we spent that ate up that $100B surplus and caused $100B+ deficits is what we financed.

If we were at $0 balanced budget and he spent $100B/yr, then it would have been financed.

At some point we did hit $0 balanced budget and kept on spending.

Medicare part D was a massive new program that wasn't paid for. Every liberal spending program saw massive increases in spending - far more than accounting for inflation.

So yeah, the $14T is wrong, Obama did run up $10T in debt, the interest is $400B (so far this year, with 2 months to go), the $400B could buy a lot of shiny things or be wasted (typical govt. spending), the surplus funded the wars and then some, etc.

I'm not excusing W. He spent like a drunken sailor, except the drunken sailor will stop spending when his wallet was empty.

Obama dialed it up to 11. No, make that 100.

 

[Denny Crane]

Thanks Obama.

 

[dviss1]

Regardless of how much money was spent, it was wasted and we don't have our fucking priorities straight.

 

[dviss1]

I am correct. I have seen no data at all that suggests anything close to $14T.

Obama is out of bounds? He blamed W for 8 years, but that was OK.

None of our debt is connected to the military expenses.

We had a $200B surplus when W took over. He spent $100B of that on his wars. We would have had a $100B surplus. So whatever we spent that ate up that $100B surplus and caused $100B+ deficits is what we financed.

If we were at $0 balanced budget and he spent $100B/yr, then it would have been financed.

At some point we did hit $0 balanced budget and kept on spending.

Medicare part D was a massive new program that wasn't paid for. Every liberal spending program saw massive increases in spending - far more than accounting for inflation.

So yeah, the $14T is wrong, Obama did run up $10T in debt, the interest is $400B (so far this year, with 2 months to go), the $400B could buy a lot of shiny things or be wasted (typical govt. spending), the surplus funded the wars and then some, etc.

I'm not excusing W. He spent like a drunken sailor, except the drunken sailor will stop spending when his wallet was empty.

Obama dialed it up to 11. No, make that 100.

That was a republican bill passed by republicans (and Ron Wyden's punk ass).

And you can't have it both ways. Y'all can't say on one hand Obama cut medicare by billions and then say he "dialed it up".

 

[dviss1]

None of our debt is connected to the military expenses.

When you spend trillions on war, how much do you have for:

Payment on the debt
Infrastructure

Hell, EVERYTHING....

Spending on war means you can't spend where you're supposed to. Like getting on track to pay this debt down. You still don't say anything about Obama cutting the deficit by 2/3rds... BUSH'S deficit...

 

[riverman]

I have seen no data at all that suggests anything close to $14T.

you are not following the thread title.....3 decades is 30 years....you stop less than one decade ago...so of course you haven't seen it....you haven't looked..and if you did, you ignored the cost of rehab and benefits paid to vets for 30 years...plus the cost of training peace keeping forces of other nations after the fact..etc...it's a long list.....also the cost of investing in upgrades to the military over those years....it's substantial whether you see it or not..and as dviss says....it's all for naught...wasted money. Maintaining our nuclear arsenal, troops in foreign countries and military bases in Turkey, Germany, Korea...etc.....

 

[Denny Crane]

When you spend trillions on war, how much do you have for:

Payment on the debt
Infrastructure

Hell, EVERYTHING....

Spending on war means you can't spend where you're supposed to. Like getting on track to pay this debt down. You still don't say anything about Obama cutting the deficit by 2/3rds... BUSH'S deficit...

Sorry, but this is nonsense.

With the money we take in now, we could spend $1T on war and $3T on roads, bridges, hospitals, universities, and paying off the debt, with plenty of money to spare.

It's a matter of how you prioritize your spending.

 

[Denny Crane]

you are not following the thread title.....3 decades is 30 years....you stop less than one decade ago...so of course you haven't seen it....you haven't looked..and if you did, you ignored the cost of rehab and benefits paid to vets for 30 years...plus the cost of training peace keeping forces of other nations after the fact..etc...it's a long list.....also the cost of investing in upgrades to the military over those years....it's substantial whether you see it or not..and as dviss says....it's all for naught...wasted money. Maintaining our nuclear arsenal, troops in foreign countries and military bases in Turkey, Germany, Korea...etc.....

We haven't spent $14T on all our wars in history. Not even including WW II, Vietnam, Korea, and the rest. Not even close.

Here's the Federation of American Scientists:

https://fas.org/sgp/crs/natsec/RS22926.pdf

($1T for wars since 9/11, through 2010, WW II cost $4T in constant dollars/adjusted for inflation).

We haven't 14x the spending since, or before.

The bigger the lie, the more believable?

All our defense spending isn't for war. It's for peace with hundreds of nations, and a tiny fraction of our economy.

 

[dviss1]

Sorry, but this is nonsense.

With the money we take in now, we could spend $1T on war and $3T on roads, bridges, hospitals, universities, and paying off the debt, with plenty of money to spare.

It's a matter of how you prioritize your spending.

I swear Denny... This is such a load...

 

[Denny Crane]

That was a republican bill passed by republicans (and Ron Wyden's punk ass).

And you can't have it both ways. Y'all can't say on one hand Obama cut medicare by billions and then say he "dialed it up".

What are you talking about?

W ran up debts. He spent like a drunken sailor, etc. What part of that didn't you read?

All that said, Obama ran up as much debt as EVERY president before him COMBINED.

 

[Denny Crane]

I swear Denny... This is such a load...

It's basic math.

We took in $3.3T in taxes/etc. in 2014.

$3.3T - $1T = $2.3T.

What does $2.3T buy?

Nothing?

 

[riverman]

We haven't spent $14T on all our wars in history. Not even including WW II, Vietnam, Korea, and the rest. Not even close.

Here's the Federation of American Scientists:

https://fas.org/sgp/crs/natsec/RS22926.pdf

($1T for wars since 9/11, through 2010, WW II cost $4T in constant dollars/adjusted for inflation).

We haven't 14x the spending since, or before.

The bigger the lie, the more believable?

All our defense spending isn't for war. It's for peace with hundreds of nations, and a tiny fraction of our economy.

There are several factors you're not counting in....disability, rehab, college tuition, veterans children's benefits for life...etc...and rebuilding places we bomb the shit out of....I don't really care about the dollar amount but actually since Truman we've spent a constantly escalating figure on the war machines....and research into new war machines......I think you're focused on combat action and active duty costs...

 

[riverman]

Budget by Year[edit]
The following is historical spending on defense from 1996-2015, spending for 2014-15 is estimated.[1] The Defense Budget is shown in billions of dollars and total budget in trillions of dollars. The percentage of the total U.S. budget spent on defense is indicated in the third row, and change in defense spending from the previous year in the final row.

1990s 2000s 2010s
96 97 98 99 00 01 02 03 04 05 06 07 08 09 10 11 12 13 14 15
Defense Budget (Billions) 266 270 271 292 304 335 362 456 491 506 556 625 696 698 721 717 681 610 614 637
Total Budget (Trillions) 1.58 1.64 1.69 1.78 1.82 1.96 2.09 2.27 2.41 2.58 2.78 2.86 3.32 4.08 3.48 3.51 3.58 3.48 3.64 3.97
Defense Budget % 16.8 16.5 16.0 16.4 16.7 17.1 17.3 20.1 20.4 19.6 20.0 21.9 20.9 17.1 20.7 20.4 19.1 17.5 16.8 16.0
Defense Spending % Change -0.1 +1.6 +0.2 +7.8 +4.0 +10.1 +8.2 +26.0 +7.6 +3.1 +10.0 +12.5 +11.3 +0.2 +3.4 -0.6 -5.0 -10.5 +0.6 +3.8
add the trillions column from 96 -2016 and you get quite a few trillion more than you say Denny

 

[Denny Crane]

There are several factors you're not counting in....disability, rehab, college tuition, veterans children's benefits for life...etc...and rebuilding places we bomb the shit out of....I don't really care about the dollar amount but actually since Truman we've spent a constantly escalating figure on the war machines....and research into new war machines......I think you're focused on combat action and active duty costs...

All that is factored in to these calculations. They count the government expenditures for all the related things, directly related and indirectly.

In terms of military expenses, we spend maybe 2% of our economy on defense per year. That's what NATO calls for, and what nations at peace should roughly spend. Smaller economies might spend as much as 6%.

2% of a very big economy is a very big amount of spending. JFK proposed 6% of the economy as defense spending, at the height of the cold war, when we didn't have Vietnam yet and were done in Korea. No military operations (except the CIA overthrowing banana dictators).

I think you're focused on attributing spending we'd have made regardless of combat activities to our combat operations, to inflate and exaggerate the cost of those. Even then, it's nowhere near $14T.

I'd be fine with massive cuts to spending on military, but that's a separate issue.

 

[Denny Crane]