Notice "The Undefeated"--NBA All-Time Top 50 UPDATED

[dviss1]

Soft, sure. But still efficient, effective, talented, and versatile. Just because he didn't play the way you might want a PF to play doesn't mean that he didn't do what he did extremely well.

Um.. Actually no..

Webber was my prototypical PF.

• Had a WET jumper.
• Post game that wasn't 90% FADAWAYS.
• Played GREAT D.
• Was the best passing PF ever.

He did everything KG did cept win a ship.

 

[Denny Crane]

Just because the game has changed doesn't invalidate that the older era players were all time greats.

Cowens has 2 rings, was an 8x all-star, MVP, and anchor of a championship contending team for most of his career.

It's hard to argue that Debusschere, Jones, Sharman, and Schayes should be removed.

I agree Duncan and Garnett deserve consideration. LeBron and Kobe (bleh) were the greatest of their generation.

The rest of the replaced them with list are questionable.

Ray Allen? There were lots of players of similar skills. Heck, Dave Bing probably belongs moreso.

Reggie Miller? Sorry, not even close to top 50 all time.

So in my view, they might find room for those 4 (Duncan, Garnett, LeBron, and Kobe).

But there are also some older era guys who deserve consideration still. Bernard King, for one.

 

[dviss1]

Just because the game has changed doesn't invalidate that the older era players were all time greats.

Cowens has 2 rings, was an 8x all-star, MVP, and anchor of a championship contending team for most of his career.

It's hard to argue that Debusschere, Jones, Sharman, and Schayes should be removed.

I agree Duncan and Garnett deserve consideration. LeBron and Kobe (bleh) were the greatest of their generation.

The rest of the replaced them with list are questionable.

Ray Allen? There were lots of players of similar skills. Heck, Dave Bing probably belongs moreso.

Reggie Miller? Sorry, not even close to top 50 all time.

So in my view, they might find room for those 4 (Duncan, Garnett, LeBron, and Kobe).

But there are also some older era guys who deserve consideration still. Bernard King, for one.

Great Post.

 

[Denny Crane]

Whenever a game with Maravich was on TV, I was glued to the set. Maybe the highest basketball IQ in the history of the game.

 

[andalusian]

If KG is in, why not Rasheed? They won the same number of rings, both were betas on offense with stellar defense.

KG was great, but Walton was 2 times the player he was and won more in a much shorter career.

 

[dviss1]

If KG is in, why not Rasheed? They won the same number of rings, both were betas on offense with stellar defense.

KG was great, but Walton was 2 times the player he was and won more in a much shorter career.

Rings or not, Sheed was an underachiever. He could've been MUCH better than he was. He doesn't have the scoring numbers.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

Um.. Actually no..

Webber was my prototypical PF.

• Had a WET jumper.
• Post game that wasn't 90% FADAWAYS.
• Played GREAT D.
• Was the best passing PF ever.

He did everything KG did cept win a ship.

I'm sorry, but Webber doesn't compare to KG in regard to defense or rebounding, and Garnett was right there with Webber as a passer. Plus, KG's advanced stats wipe the floor with Webber's, on both sides of the ball.

I get why you love him, but you will never be able to convince me that Webber was on KG's level, and I'm willing to bet that 95% of NBA fans our age will side with me on this.

 

[dviss1]

Whenever a game with Maravich was on TV, I was glued to the set. Maybe the highest basketball IQ in the history of the game.

Remember when they used to play horse?

 

[andalusian]

Rings or not, Sheed was an underachiever. He could've been MUCH better than he was. He doesn't have the scoring numbers.

Oh, I agree. He does not deserve in there, but I do not believe KG belongs in as well. Drexler vs KG - I would argue that maybe there is a discussion there. But Walton? Sorry. Nope. Not close.

 

[Five Second Violation]

Drexler getting removed for any of Reggie, Ray Allen, or Iverson is just dumb beyond all belief. Clyde was simply a better player than any of those guys.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

Oh, I agree. He does not deserve in there, but I do not believe KG belongs in as well. Drexler vs KG - I would argue that maybe there is a discussion there. But Walton? Sorry. Nope. Not close.

Walton had basically 3 years of greatness, really barely more than 2 full seasons' worth (164 games played from the 75-76 through 77-78 seasons). He was great when healthy, but longevity matters. Many would argue he didn't even belong in the HOF, let alone on the top 50 list.

 

[blue9]

Um.. Actually no..

Webber was my prototypical PF.

• Had a WET jumper.
• Post game that wasn't 90% FADAWAYS.
• Played GREAT D.
• Was the best passing PF ever.

He did everything KG did cept win a ship.

But he woulda had the refs not stole it from him. And he woulda done it as the cornerstone of his own team rather than as a role player on Paul Pierce's Eastern Conference team.

 

[blue9]

Rings or not, Sheed was an underachiever. He could've been MUCH better than he was. He doesn't have the scoring numbers.

Agreed - but I'd still take him over KG. (Now that might be my hate showing through.) For me KG falls somewhere between Sheed and LA.

 

[dviss1]

I'm sorry, but Webber doesn't compare to KG in regard to defense or rebounding, and Garnett was right there with Webber as a passer. Plus, KG's advanced stats wipe the floor with Webber's, on both sides of the ball.

I get why you love him, but you will never be able to convince me that Webber was on KG's level, and I'm willing to bet that 95% of NBA fans our age will side with me on this.

We'll agree to disagree on passing. KG wasn't near the passer Webber was numbers be damned. I also am not caring about convincing you or anyone else who would agree.

Webber was robbed of maybe a couple of titles.

 

[dviss1]

But he woulda had the refs not stole it from him. And he woulda done it as the cornerstone of his own team rather than as a role player on Paul Pierce's Eastern Conference team.

I liked this post for a hot second until I realized you called KG a role player... C'mon now... That's hating.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

But he woulda had the refs not stole it from him. And he woulda done it as the cornerstone of his own team rather than as a role player on Paul Pierce's Eastern Conference team.

Role player--LOL! KG led that team in scoring, rebounding, and every cumulative advanced stat in the playoffs, not to mention being 2nd in both steals and blocks and 3rd in assists. He was easily the centerpiece of that team.

But go ahead and keep hating.

 

[dviss1]

Role player--LOL! KG led that team in scoring, rebounding, and every cumulative advanced stat in the playoffs, not to mention being 2nd in both steals and blocks and 3rd in assists. He was easily the centerpiece of that team.

But go ahead and keep hating.

You CERTAINLY used it in context. That's hatin' no doubt.

Edit: see my post right above yours.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

We'll agree to disagree on passing. KG wasn't near the passer Webber was numbers be damned. I also am not caring about convincing you or anyone else who would agree.

Long as you're comfortable being in the minority.

C'mon, stop, you know what I meant...

 

[Denny Crane]

I'm sorry, but Webber doesn't compare to KG in regard to defense or rebounding, and Garnett was right there with Webber as a passer. Plus, KG's advanced stats wipe the floor with Webber's, on both sides of the ball.

I get why you love him, but you will never be able to convince me that Webber was on KG's level, and I'm willing to bet that 95% of NBA fans our age will side with me on this.

I thought KG played like a 7' Pippen. Both in their primes.

As far as PFs go, he and Duncan are in the debate for all time greatest.

 

[andalusian]

Walton had basically 3 years of greatness, really barely more than 2 full seasons' worth (164 games played from the 75-76 through 77-78 seasons). He was great when healthy, but longevity matters. Many would argue he didn't even belong in the HOF, let alone on the top 50 list.

He was the #1 player on a team that won a championship. That alone is worth more than someone that played 20 years and only won when he joined 2 other great players and he was not the best player on that championship team.

How many players can say they were unequivocally the best player on a championship team since 77?

Durant, Lebron, Curry, Kawhi(?), Dirk, Kobe, Pierce, Duncan, Wade, Billups, Shaq, Jordan, Hakeem, Isiah, Magic, Bird, Kareem, Moses Malone, Dennis Johnson?. Wes Unseld, Walton

Now, I would accept that longevity matters, but sport medicine was nowhere near what it was in the 90s and 2000s when Walton played, nor should we forget than unlike KG's straight to the NBA - Walton actually went to college and won it all there.

People (not just Blazers fans) are still talking about how great that '77 team played today - will anyone really sing the same songs about that 2008 Celtics team (definitely no-one that is not a Celtics fan, and I hope they sing it because this will be their last one) in 30 years?

 

[PtldPlatypus]

He was the #1 player on a team that won a championship. That alone is worth more than someone that played 20 years and only won when he joined 2 other great players and he was not the best player on that championship team.

How many players can say they were unequivocally the best player on a championship team since 77?

Durant, Lebron, Curry, Kawhi(?), Dirk, Kobe, Pierce, Duncan, Wade, Billups, Shaq, Jordan, Hakeem, Isiah, Magic, Bird, Kareem, Moses Malone, Dennis Johnson?. Wes Unseld, Walton

So you're saying that Chauncey Billups is more deserving a hall of famer than Kevin Garnett.

OK--that's all I need to know.

 

[Denny Crane]

Walton had basically 3 years of greatness, really barely more than 2 full seasons' worth (164 games played from the 75-76 through 77-78 seasons). He was great when healthy, but longevity matters. Many would argue he didn't even belong in the HOF, let alone on the top 50 list.

While longevity does matter, you can still ask if he was the great player he showed he was (when healthy) or if he was some sort of flash in the pan.

 

[BLAZINGGIANTS]

Really? Ray Allen? Paul Pierce?

I like those guys. They were superstars. But they weren't better than a third of the players on that list, including Drexler.

 

[andalusian]

So you're saying that Chauncey Billups is more deserving a hall of famer than Kevin Garnett.

OK--that's all I need to know.

No, because I am not even certain he was the best player on his team actually, it just felt like maybe he was - I should have really added a ? after his name the way I did for Kawahi and Dennis Johnson. You are right about that one. Missed that one. If we go back to the original "unequivocally the best player on a championship team since 77" list - the real list should be (after removing the question marks)

Durant, Lebron, Curry, Dirk, Kobe, Pierce, Duncan, Wade, Shaq, Jordan, Hakeem, Isiah, Magic, Bird, Kareem, Moses Malone, Wes Unseld, Walton

 

[PtldPlatypus]

No, because I am not even certain he was the best player on his team actually, it just felt like maybe he was - I should have really added a ? after his name the way I did for Kawahi and Dennis Johnson. You are right about that one. Missed that one. If we go back to the original "unequivocally the best player on a championship team since 77" list - the real list should be (after removing the question marks)

Durant, Lebron, Curry, Dirk, Kobe, Pierce, Duncan, Wade, Shaq, Jordan, Hakeem, Isiah, Magic, Bird, Kareem, Moses Malone, Wes Unseld, Walton

Including Pierce on your list is disingenuous. He was not "unequivocally the best player" on his championship team, and I already detailed why (and why KG most definitely was) earlier in the thread.

 

[handiman]

Um.. Actually no..

Webber was my prototypical PF.

• Had a WET jumper.
• Post game that wasn't 90% FADAWAYS.
• Played GREAT D.
• Was the best passing PF ever.

He did everything KG did cept win a ship.

Wait, time out, you're saying Weber is one of the best handful of PF's ever? (Yeah, I had to go there.) He was an underachiever much of his career, and even in Sacto (an underachieving team), he wasn't clearly the best player. I think you're confusing favorites with all-time greats.

Remember when they used to play horse?

Holy crap, I just lost all respect for Pistol Pete. I absolutely hate playing HORSE with people who do nothing but stupid shots like that, knowing the other person hasn't practiced those specifics.

 

[dviss1]

Walton actually went to college and won it all there.

Walton was arguably the best college player ever.

That has nothing to do with his NBA career.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

http://theundefeated.com/features/nba-50-greatest-players-remix/

The Undefeated has taken it upon themselves to update the NBA all-time top 50 players list to include 14 players they feel have earned themselves a spot over the past 20 years. In all, they removed:

• Pistol Pete
• Clyde Drexler
• Bill Walton
• Lenny Wilkens
• James Worthy
• Robert Parish
• Tiny Archibald
• Dave Bing
• Dave Cowens
• Dave Debusschere
• Same Jones
• Wes Unseld
• Bill Sharman
• Dolph Schayes

And replaced them with:

• Lebron
• Kobe
• Duncan
• Garnett
• Durant
• Dirk
• Kidd
• Iverson
• Nash
• Wade
• Pierce
• Curry
• Ray Allen
• Reggie Miller

I agree with most of their updates, but there are some that are questionable at best.

Iverson? Pierce? Wade? Miller? Hmm...

 

[dviss1]

Wait, time out, you're saying Weber is one of the best handful of PF's ever? (Yeah, I had to go there.) He was an underachiever much of his career, and even in Sacto (an underachieving team), he wasn't clearly the best player. I think you're confusing favorites with all-time greats.



Holy crap, I just lost all respect for Pistol Pete. I absolutely hate playing HORSE with people who do nothing but stupid shots like that, knowing the other person hasn't practiced those specifics.

These posts speak for themselves.

 

[BLAZINGGIANTS]

Walton had basically 3 years of greatness, really barely more than 2 full seasons' worth (164 games played from the 75-76 through 77-78 seasons). He was great when healthy, but longevity matters. Many would argue he didn't even belong in the HOF, let alone on the top 50 list.

By this argument, it's far too early to put Steph Curry on the list.