The Untouchables 2.0

[PDXFonz]

It would be the first time since 1978 that we'd have the best player in the world on our team, and when you have the best player in the world, you always have a legitimate shot at the title.

Yeah, I love Dame. C.J. and Nurk, but I love championships more. LeBron James isn't coming here, but if there was anyway we could get him, I'd do whatever it would take - without hesitation.

Again, I love our team and Dame is as close to untouchable as it gets. I'm also a huge C.J. fan and not in any way in the "they can't coexist" camp. I believe surrounding them with the right players can hide their deficiencies to the point that we can build a contender. Nurk was one of those pieces. Vonleh is starting to look like he may be another. Still, there are no guarantees. I'm as excited about this team's future as anyone, but I would trade that unknown future for a legitimate shot at a title, even if it was for only a year.

BNM

True but I think if this group of players hits their collective ceiling then they can contend for a championship. Lebron James took his talents to south beach and lost to the Mavs in the Finals. No way I'm risking what could be 5+ years of contention down the road for one year of really solid contention.

 

[Boob-No-More]

True but I think if this group of players hits their collective ceiling then they can contend for a championship. Lebron James took his talents to south beach and lost to the Mavs in the Finals. No way I'm risking what could be 5+ years of contention down the road for one year of really solid contention.

He also carried an absolutely abysmal CLE team to the NBA finals as a 22-year old and is a much better player now, with championship experience. He's been to the finals six seasons in a row, and if you make it to the finals you have a chance to win.

I agree that this team has potential, but we've had other teams with potential, too...

BNM

 

[PDXFonz]

He also carried an absolutely abysmal CLE team to the NBA finals as a 22-year old and is a much better player now, with championship experience. He's been to the finals six seasons in a row, and if you make it to the finals you have a chance to win.

I agree that this team has potential, but we've had other teams with potential, too...

BNM

Yes but you see I am very Lockean in the sense that what has happened before does not dictate what can/will/or might happen in the future.

No matter how you slice it, in my mind somewhat of a chance to win in a ~5 year window > good chance to win in a 1 year window.

We will probably just have to agree to disagree here.

 

[Boob-No-More]

We will probably just have to agree to disagree here.

Agreed.

BNM

 

[Pinwheel1]

.

I think people under value what Crabbe gives us. Crabbe is the kind of player you need to win a playoff series in today's league. That is why the cavs went out to get Korver. I loved hearing Clyde Frasier the other day say that "you need a guy like him today, or you can't compete". Every announcer has been salivating just thinking about butter and lemon since Crabbe has come out of his shell recently.

I want to wait and see what deals players get under the new CBA before we move Crabbes contract. Right now it might not look the best, but I do think it will look better once the cap increases and players start getting similar contracts for possibly less value.

I agree with your post, but I don't think most of us under value Crabbe's skill set. (Just a few )
However the bottom line is Neil matched the offer for Crabbe IMO because he did not want to lose an asset for nothing. I think he knew at the time he could not afford him and ET, but that he had nothing to lose by matching and trying to land a asset in return for him later. And as you have pointed out Crabbe's ability to shoot the 3 makes him a valuable asset. He can be moved without us throwing in a draft pick.......... maybe even for a draft pick in return.

We need a guy like him, but we just can't afford him after we pay for Nurk. So I guess we could hold on to him for another year if we can get rid of Ezeli, Meyers, and ____.

 

[roroyo]

I think we can agree there is no such thing as untouchable. I mean shit, I'd trade our entire roster for one season of LeBron. Add him, and a roster full of ring chasing vets on minimum contracts, and we'd have our most realistic shot at a title since 2000.


Doesn't matter/Don't care:
Connaughton
Layman
Quarterman

BNM

I respect your knowledge, but this is such a bollocks, even if it is sci-fi scenario. I wouldn't take Bron here for free. His Ohio fairytale is fine - he's from there - fair play. Any other team taking him losing its identity. Fighting for finals with guys like Lillard is much more fun than buying them with LeBron.

I'm extremely emotional about game (especially this season), but it's not a war. Game is about beating LeBron. At least from my point of view. I've joined Blazers when it was all about beating Jordan

(And I don't agree bout Layman. As I wasn't on Vonleh must go bandwagon.)

 

[Boob-No-More]

I respect your knowledge, but this is such a bollocks, even if it is sci-fi scenario. I wouldn't take Bron here for free. His Ohio fairytale is fine - he's from there - fair play. Any other team taking him losing its identity. Fighting for finals with guys like Lillard is much more fun than buying them with LeBron.

I'm extremely emotional about game (especially this season), but it's not a war. Game is about beating LeBron. At least from my point of view. I've joined Blazers when it was all about beating Jordan

(And I don't agree bout Layman. As I wasn't on Vonleh must go bandwagon.)

Disagree, but liked anyway. I respect your conviction.

BNM

 

[Dougnsalem]

Disagree, but liked anyway. I respect your conviction.

BNM

Just my opinion, but you both have great points. Would be nice if more conversations around here went like that....

 

[oldfisherman]

Build the team around the core of Dame, CJ, Nurkic & Vonleh. It would take a very good no brainer trade to break up that core.

From there, which players are going to step up? It appears the remainder of our rotation players are at or very near their ceiling. They are all trade bait now. So are the project players.

NO has until the next season’s trade deadline to figure out which players need to be moved to stay out of the luxury tax. A lot can happen in that time frame. He has 3 first round picks to work with to make things happen in the draft. Plus next seasons first round pick to use in this draft, or, before the next trade deadline. I expect NO is going to be very active on draft day.

 

[Dougnsalem]

Build the team around the core of Dame, CJ, Nurkic & Vonleh. It would take a very good no brainer trade to break up that core.

From there, which players are going to step up? It appears the remainder of our rotation players are at or very near their ceiling. They are all trade bait now. So are the project players.

NO has until the next season’s trade deadline to figure out which players need to be moved to stay out of the luxury tax. A lot can happen in that time frame. He has 3 first round picks to work with to make things happen in the draft. Plus next seasons first round pick to use in this draft, or, before the next trade deadline. I expect NO is going to be very active on draft day.

I didn't say anything earlier, but I really liked your trade down/salary savings point. I hadn't really thought about that, and it could save us some headaches down the road. Granted, we still have plenty of time....

 

[Pinwheel1]

He also carried an absolutely abysmal CLE team to the NBA finals as a 22-year old and is a much better player now, with championship experience. He's been to the finals six seasons in a row, and if you make it to the finals you have a chance to win.

I agree that this team has potential, but we've had other teams with potential, too...

BNM

When Lebron went back to Cleveland I said at the time I would gut our team for Lebron. Many argued with me that Lebron could not do it on his own, but my argument was that vets would flock to Portland to play with him.

Having said that he has now played 100 games a year for 14 straight years. At what point will he slow down?

 

[roroyo]

Having said that he has now played 100 games a year for 14 straight years. At what point will he slow down?

That's the thing. He is some NASA project and if watch DeepBlue v Kasparov I would always find human capabilities more fun.

 

[theprunetang]

Just my opinion, but you both have great points. Would be nice if more conversations around here went like that....

Shut up Doug.

 

[Orion Bailey]

Shut up Doug.

@Dougnsalem you gonna take that from Da' Prune????

 

[MarAzul]

I am not understanding why you put both Lillard and CJ as untouchable. We have two Shooting guards and one of them is the best bait to bring a quality player to round out a team.

 

[BosnianChampion]

I didn't realize how young we were until I looked and saw that only Evan Turner would have any memories of watching the Blazers play the Bulls in the finals.

 

[Orion Bailey]

I am not understanding why you put both Lillard and CJ as untouchable. We have two Shooting guards and one of them is the best bait to bring a quality player to round out a team.

Many people, myself included, believe that most trades including either Dame or CJ would be a lateral move and not improve the team in a way or enough to make such a trade valid.

Do you think NO is going to split them in the off season? I certainly don't and the poll doesn't allow for more than 10 options, so I had to pair a couple up or remove a few. Since I believe it more likely that any one of the many others get moved before these two, I thought it fine to put them both together.

 

[Dougnsalem]

Shut up Doug.

@Dougnsalem you gonna take that from Da' Prune????

Lol. Yup.

 

[Orion Bailey]

Lol. Yup.

Man. I thought I was pretty good at pot stirring...

Back to the kettle for more practice....

 

[Pinwheel1]

I am not understanding why you put both Lillard and CJ as untouchable. We have two Shooting guards and one of them is the best bait to bring a quality player to round out a team.

I think we have two guards that can shoot very well. Not two SG's. Dame is a PG all the way and CJ is clearly a SG. So IMO the debate is whether you want to trade CJ for another SG who defends better but can't score as well, or keep both and find a 3rd guard who can compliment them both. (Regardless of who starts) Either way they will get their minutes. In other words ET, or a better version of ET.

 

[MarAzul]

Many people, myself included, believe that most trades including either Dame or CJ would be a lateral move and not improve the team in a way or enough to make such a trade valid.

Do you think NO is going to split them in the off season? I certainly don't and the poll doesn't allow for more than 10 options, so I had to pair a couple up or remove a few. Since I believe it more likely that any one of the many others get moved before these two, I thought it fine to put them both together.

Ah! I did not understand the logic, I didn't realize this was the result of a poll. Something like a vote in Congress to get the best options.

 

[MarAzul]

Not two SG's.

We disagree but it is really irrelevant to the point.

 

[Charcoal Filtered]

I think it would be a better poll if you put CJ and Dame seperate. There is absolutely no question Ed Davis would be available for the right price.

Not seeing a lateral move either with moving Dame or CJ. By moving one, you could get a better fit. Using the lateral move logic, you could have said Plumlee for the Beast was lateral when in reality we are seeing a much improved team because of it.

 

[Orion Bailey]

I think it would be a better poll if you put CJ and Dame seperate. There is absolutely no question Ed Davis would be available for the right price.

Not seeing a lateral move either with moving Dame or CJ. By moving one, you could get a better fit. Using the lateral move logic, you could have said Plumlee for the Beast was lateral when in reality we are seeing a much improved team because of it.

Good point on the Plums trade, but I cant change the poll, but do you think NO is goign to split the pair? If not then its all moot right?

 

[Dougnsalem]

I think it would be a better poll if you put CJ and Dame seperate. There is absolutely no question Ed Davis would be available for the right price.

Not seeing a lateral move either with moving Dame or CJ. By moving one, you could get a better fit. Using the lateral move logic, you could have said Plumlee for the Beast was lateral when in reality we are seeing a much improved team because of it.

And Denver isn't....

 

[42N8Bounce]

No one is untouchable. Everyone is tradeable for the right price.

Here's how I value the roster:
* Dame (core)
* CJ (core)
* Nurk (core)
---
* Harkless (only 23, on a great contract, 10 ppg, 49% fg, 35% 3s, 4.6 reb. I think he still has up-side.)
* Crabbe (Excellent 3 point shooter, but one dimensional and expensive.)
* Vonleh (Showing promise and very young, but still has a ways to go to earn that starter spot.)
---------
- Aminu (Don't dribble the ball more than 2 times!)
- Turner (Don't shoot outside the key!)
---
- Davis (Good role player. Good contract.)
- Napier (Good role player. Good contract.)
---
- Leonard (... but he has a good personality.)
---
- Layman (meh)
- Quarterman (meh)
- Connaughton (meh)

 

[Reep]

I didn't vote because I don't think anyone on this team should be untouchable.

However, reality is what it is so:

Dame: politically untouchable
CJ: pridefully untouchable (would require a new GM) personally, if I had to choose, I would keep CJ over Dame.
Nurk: untouchable potential (would have to be for someone with a higher ceiling, not sure who that would be)
Vonleh: untouchable potential (finally showing signs of life so I can't see him traded unless for a big upside)
[Leonard: if he really turned it on and hit the 3, rebounded and defended into the playoffs, he would be as Vonleh]

Aminu: not untouchable, but I think the team values him way more than the fans here do

Everyone else is fungible.

 

[Fez Hammersticks]

Dame | CJ | Nurkic

That's it.

 

[Charcoal Filtered]

Good point on the Plums trade, but I cant change the poll, but do you think NO is goign to split the pair? If not then its all moot right?

He traded guys he loved in the CP3 deal so it is not impossible. If George agreed to an extension, do you not think he would jump at the chance if it cost CJ and Leonard?

 

[Mediocre Man]

He traded guys he loved in the CP3 deal so it is not impossible. If George agreed to an extension, do you not think he would jump at the chance if it cost CJ and Leonard?

And?